IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

You okay with that, McGentrix?

So, you don't that is a VERY broad definition?

By that definition then, the US has universal health care.

True!

I wouldn't say that if health care is limited to emergency care, that leaves you with a universal health care system.

Do you use the term "health care" as a synonym for "emergency care?"

Don't you think that things have specific names for a reason?


Also, Walter, Miller and I are coming from places that have implemented universal health care systems, but have neither a state run nor a single payer system in place.

Why then should those terms be used synonymously when they clearly mean different things?

Well, based on this definition, we have this in the United States today. Hospitals and public health facilities will treat anyone for acute issues, even without payment. For the poor and those over 65, there are well-financed public programs that pay for most of the costs. Service providers are generally available and access to specialized care is relatively quick and pleantiful. The costs of routine preventative health care - even in the absence of insurance - are relatively low, compared to other things we routinely pay for including broadband internet and TV connectivity, automobiles, entertainment and the like.

As oe already pointed out ...

Well, forget it.

Okay, you've got an universal emergency heath care system and a partly universal-over-65-health-care system.

Well then, why don't you and walter lift us out of the darkness? Tell us more about your "Universal", but "not government run" health care system.

I understand that everyone is "required" to have some form of (presumably approved) health insurance, and that a basic policy, providing minimal service is available to all and subsidized by the government through general tax revenues. OK so far??

How is the insurance "requirement" enforced? What happens if someone declines to enroll in any program?

What are the standards for government approval of a candidate insurance program that might meet the "requirement"? Are new insurers able to enter this market as they wish, or does the government control the supply?

To what extent does the government regulate the prices charged for service, either directly or through caps on payments?

Who determines what services are available to insured citizens? I assume the varuious insurance providers have their own stated limits. Are there widespread complaints about the restrictions so applied?

I received this article in my E-Mail.
Could it be true or someones dream of what should be?

My Encounter with [Insert Scary Music] ... Socialized Medicine!
My foot had been sore for a couple of weeks and it wasn't getting better. I
usually would ignore that, but we were about to leave on a two-week vacation
with my wife Joy's parents to celebrate both of our big anniversaries (their
50th and our 10th). Then I have to fly to Singapore for the World Vision
triennial conference. So I wouldn't be back home for many weeks and my
Washington, D.C., health care provider (over the phone) strongly urged me to
see a doctor in London before we left.

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I realized then that I was about to have my first encounter with SOCIALIZED
MEDICINE! Now it's one thing to advocate health care reform in America and
even to be politically sympathetic to the idea of a single-payer
government-supported system like they have in most of the world's developed
and civilized countries (such as Canada, Germany, and Great Britain). But it
was another thing to actually go to the emergency room (or ER, but in the
U.K. they call it Accident and Emergency) of a hospital in the British
National Health Service. After all, I had heard the horror stories-long
waits in incompetent, dirty, and substandard medical facilities; bad doctors
and faulty diagnoses; and, of course, incredible bureaucracies like
everything in "socialist systems." Rush Limbaugh and every other
conservative pundit have warned us all in America about the horrific
practices of British socialized medicine.

So I prepared myself. I brought a big novel to read, along with my
eyeglasses, a bottle of water (no telling what they would not have in
socialized medicine), and emotionally steeled myself for the ordeal. Ann
Stevens, the Anglican vicar with whom we stay in London (she's my son Luke's
godmother and Joy's old pal) took me to St. George's hospital, dropped me
off at "A and E," and wished me luck at 9 a.m. Hoping I would be home that
night for dinner, I took a deep breath, walked across the street, and made
my way into socialized medicine.

The waiting room was actually quite peaceful and not crowded, I noticed, as
I walked up to reception. The woman at the reception desk smiled. I didn't
expect that. "Can I help you?" "Yes," I replied, "you see, I am an
American-I guess you can tell-and I'm visiting family here-my wife is
British-and we're staying with our friend the vicar, and I have a sore foot,
which I normally wouldn't worry about but we're going away for several weeks
on vacation, and I called my health care provider in the U.S., and they told
me to come in here and thought I should get an X-ray or something." (I
wondered for a moment if it would help to tell them that I was a friend of
the prime minister, but decided not.) "What do you need from me?" I asked
hesitantly. "Just your name and address," she replied with another smile.
"Oh ... Okay." She told me it would be about 10 minutes to see the nurse.
"Yeah right," I thought to myself.

I settled into the waiting room chair, looked around at all the people who
didn't seem to be in any distress, and opened my book for a good long read.
It was five minutes before the nurse called me in to a little office
adjacent to the waiting area, which seemed to be an intake room. She was
pleasant and professional as she asked me what was wrong, and how long I had
felt the soreness. She gently examined my foot and then told me I would be
called in to see a doctor in about 10 minutes. "Sure thing," I thought. So I
went back out to the waiting room and settled in again to read my novel.

It was five minutes before a young woman appeared and called my name, "Mr.
Wallis?" She was a young Asian doctor named Dr. Gillian Kyei. She was also
very pleasant and professional, taking time to ask me lots of questions
about how I might have hurt my foot, etc. She examined the injured foot
carefully, told me that it didn't necessarily look broken, but that we
should get an X-ray to make sure. I waited in her examining room for a
couple of minutes while she called down to the X-ray department to say that
I was on the way. Then she came back and escorted me herself.

When I got to X-ray, I checked in by just saying my name and took a seat in
the waiting area. Finally, I was going to get to read my book! But five
minutes later, the technician came out to bring me in. She took her time
with me, taking several different angles of my foot. When I was done, she
sent me back to my young doctor, with another smile.

This time the wait was a full 10 minutes because, I later learned, Dr. Kyei
was reading the results of my X-ray, which had already been sent to her
computer. She showed me what looked to her like a fracture of my fourth
metatarsal bone, but said she wanted to consult with the orthopedic
specialist. I waited about 10 minutes more while she did that and so got a
few more pages read.

Dr. Kyei then came back with the definitive diagnosis-my fourth metatarsal
bone was indeed fractured. She went over their preferred treatments and my
options with me. Normally, if this injury had just happened, they would put
me in a cast to hold the broken bone in place and give me crutches. They
were still happy to do that now. But since I had been already walking on it
for over a week and the bone was still in the right place, I could also have
the option to just using a therapeutic soft boot to keep the weight on my
heel and off my fourth and fifth metatarsals. While the fracture was at the
base of the fourth metatarsal, as she carefully explained and showed me on
the X-ray, the pain was being felt lower down-across both my fourth and
fifth metatarsal area. If I chose the boot, I could still swim with my kids
and get around a little easier, but I would have to really try to keep my
weight off the injured area. I chose the boot and she told me she would be
back in a minute.

It was actually about two minutes before she got back, and I was getting
nowhere with this novel. She handed me a very stylish black boot (so much
better than other colors for fashion coordination), and gave me my final
instructions-be very cautious about the foot, try to stay off it as much as
possible but keep it mobile and flex it so the blood circulates, get another
X-ray as soon as I get home and, of course, then consult with my home
physician. Then she wrote me a nice long letter for my home doctor,
describing their diagnosis and treatment. Dr. Gillian Kyei then wished me
the best of luck, hoped I would have a great vacation despite my foot,
smiled, and sent me back to the front desk.

"How can I call a cab?" I asked. "Oh, I'll do that for you," she said. "Just
take a seat over their and the cab will be here in about 10 minutes." As I
sat there, I realized something. Nobody had ever asked me to pay. Everything
was FREE, including my nice new boot. How about that? They think health care
is a right for all citizens, and even foreign visitors like me. Amazing.

The cab came in five minutes. I thought I would tell him some horror stories
about my experiences in the American health care system, but decided not to.
I was back at Ann's in just over an hour from when I left-with my letter, my
boot, and my tale of smiling, pleasant, and efficient health care workers.
And somehow I began to believe that back in America we weren't being given
the whole truth. And guess what? Ann tells me that David Beckham and Wayne
Rooney, the biggest British soccer (football) stars, have had metatarsal
bone fractures, just like mine. In about six weeks, I too will be back on
the field, thanks to socialized medicine! And in the meantime, I will keep
my foot up ... and maybe get that novel read.

When does something become "acute?" Do you have to wait until a condition becomes life threatening?

This seems to be rather vague.

Also, as above, people usually distinguish between health care and acute health care. No?




True. That'd be an aspect of a universal health care system (albeit a more socialized one than others).




Well, it's true that the United States are pretty good when it comes to preventative health care - better than some countries with universal health care systems.

It just seems to quite a sizeable portion of the population is left out of the system - which makes it less-than-universal, in pretty much every sense of the word.


Also, I don't think the comparison with internet or automobiles makes a lot of sense. If cars are easily available in a country, that's still a far cry from saying it's guaranteed that everybody will own one.

So does that mean everyone gets a free car and a free house, plus free food and clothing from the government, oe? That is general welfare as well. I have heard these arguments many times before. People use the general welfare clause to justify anything they want it to, but that was not the intent of it.

Do use the term "health care" as a synonym for "health insurance"?

Don't you think that things have specific names for a reason?

High quality health care is available in the US to not only virtually everyone, but to everyone period.

Your definition we are using, right?

I envision a future in which there is food, water, housing, and basic entertainment and education provided free for anyone who wants it. There comes a point of technological development at which it becomes cheaper to provide these things then it is to not do so. I believe that technology can help us achieve this point, and if you would like to discuss it further, I'd be more than happy to.

Nothing is 'free.' There will always be a cost. Question is, how will those costs be allocated - and how much are we paying right now?

Cycloptichorn

Just what do the words "left out of the system" mean? Others here have offered information on the uninsured here - most are so as a matter of choice -- i.e. they have coverage through a spouse or others, or they chose to spend on other things, very often because they are young and assume good health will persist.

I agree there are tragic situations arising from misfortune and poverty, but these things exist in countries with "universal" health care as well.

In an odd way it is the present pervasiveness of health insurance in America that has disconnected people from the real costs of the services they demand in such abundance. Moreover the price negotiation practices of the insurers have perversely led providers to inflate their pre-negotiation prices significantly, seriously penalizing those without insurance. I suppose if we go to "universal" insurance we will also need some form of government price controls to limit that aspect of things. That of course will lead to government control of supply, etc.etc.

I think free markets work better.

au, Excellent first hand report by an American of Britain's universal health care system. It makes one wonder what all the fuss is about by Americans not wanting universal health care.

I'd trade the British style of health care over ours even though I know I have an excellent physician and health care through Kaiser; our Santa Clara hospital is rated at the top of hospitals in the US.

I believe that good health for our society benefits everybody; what's wrong with that?

I wonder how the folks in Texas at those FREE HOSPITALS like sitting for 5 days in the ER?

Governmental control of medicare is getting tighter by the day.
Now medicare will not pay for medical mistakes, made while a person is a patient in the hospital. Who'll be doing the paying?

What happens in Texas is not necessarily how a national universal health care program will be.

It's big clue.

Right now, in Massachusetts because of Universal Health Care law, there's a shortage of PCPs. So, what are the insured to do?
They've got the required insurance, but doctors are short in supply.

george wrote :



george :
when i posted the entry of the 77 year old widow who had to find $50,000 to pay for her healthcare (and who took out a sub-prime mortgage to pay for it) , i got a bit of a tongue-lashing from okie who felt that her expenses would be covered and that i was making up a story .

miller's entry seemed to make it quite clear that the woman likely did not have a choice but had to come up with the money out of her own pocket to obtain health-care .

i'm sure i sound like a broken record , but am still wondering why the woman's medical expenses SHOULD not be covered by the american health insurance system in one way or another ?
it certainly doesn't sound like she committed a crime or that she or her husband where layabout's .
is it just "luck of the draw" - and she came out a big loser ?
too bad for her but people will sometimes fall through the cracks in the system ; nothing to get excited about - is that how it should be looked at ?
hbg


MILLER'S COMMENTS - see page 70 :

The big clue for me is that anybody can get health care services irregardless of income or work related benefit. Middle class families without health insurance can drop into poverty if any family member has to have expensive medical care. Poor children will also be provided with health care. I feel these issues are more important than the negatives anyione can find in the current American health care system.

There are problems with all health care systems whether private or public.