IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

I am not saying that the US system is perfect.
What I will say however is that if you want to get "more bang for less buck", then the problem is right here..." the huge dollars going into it."

Take the govt out of private healthcare altogether,and allow doctors to compete for your health dollars.

Right now,with huge insurance companies paying most of the bills,people have no incentive to find the best value, and doctors have no incentive to compete if they know that they can only bill x amount.

Allow doctors to compete for your dollar, WITHOUT govt interference,and you will see healthcare costs go down and healthcare itself improve.
Doctors will start reducing their prices to stay in business,and offering more and better services for those dollars.

IOW,let the market decide healthcare costs without interference.

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mysteryman wrote:

Doctors will start reducing their prices to stay in business,and offering more and better services for those dollars

Reducing their prices? Laughing

What're you smoking MM?

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Miller wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Doctors will start reducing their prices to stay in business,and offering more and better services for those dollars

Reducing their prices?

What're you smoking MM?

Its just like anything else.
If doctor A charges you $50 for a physical,and doctor B down the street charges you $40 for the exact same thing,then you will most likely go to Dr B.

Now,Dr A will either have to lower his price to compete,or go out of business.

Its basic economics.

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mm wrote ;

Quote:

Right now,with huge insurance companies paying most of the bills,people have no incentive to find the best value, and doctors have no incentive to compete if they know that they can only bill x amount.

my understanding is that many insurance companies have set maximum fees that they will pay for a service .
i further understand that some doctors will not accept patients insured through some low paying insurance companies unless they are willing to pay the diference out of their own pocket - or is that incorrect information ?
hbg

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mysteryman wrote:

Miller wrote:
mysteryman wrote:

Doctors will start reducing their prices to stay in business,and offering more and better services for those dollars

Reducing their prices?

What're you smoking MM?

Its just like anything else.
If doctor A charges you $50 for a physical,and doctor B down the street charges you $40 for the exact same thing,then you will most likely go to Dr B.

Now,Dr A will either have to lower his price to compete,or go out of business.

Its basic economics.

If you're in the hospital for removal of a brain tumor and the surgical resident (2 years experience)tells you she'll remove your tumor for free, and the senior attending neurosurgeon ( 20+years of experience ) tells you she'll remove the tumor for ~$25,000, who will you choose if you want to survive the operation and come out of the OR without a diminished IQ?

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hamburger wrote:

mm wrote ;

Quote:
Right now,with huge insurance companies paying most of the bills,people have no incentive to find the best value, and doctors have no incentive to compete if they know that they can only bill x amount.

my understanding is that many insurance companies have set maximum fees that they will pay for a service .
i further understand that some doctors will not accept patients insured through some low paying insurance companies unless they are willing to pay the diference out of their own pocket - or is that incorrect information ?
hbg

As far as I know,you are correct, and that is part of the problem.
If a Dr knows he is only going to get paid a small amount,then why should he go to the trouble of taking more patients.

I know some find it hard to believe,but doctors are also tying to make money,they arent giving their knowledge away.

But if you allow the market to decide costs,then some costs will go up and some will go down.
And I think that in the long run it would be better for everybody.

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hamburger wrote:

mm wrote ;

Quote:
Right now,with huge insurance companies paying most of the bills,people have no incentive to find the best value, and doctors have no incentive to compete if they know that they can only bill x amount.

my understanding is that many insurance companies have set maximum fees that they will pay for a service .
i further understand that some doctors will not accept patients insured through some low paying insurance companies unless they are willing to pay the diference out of their own pocket - or is that incorrect information ?
hbg

Some physicians today won't take any kind of insurance and want instead COLD CASH...

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Quote:

my understanding is that many insurance companies have set maximum fees that they will pay for a service .
i further understand that some doctors will not accept patients insured through some low paying insurance companies unless they are willing to pay the diference out of their own pocket - or is that incorrect information

You'll be billed for the difference.

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Miller wrote:

hamburger wrote:
mm wrote ;

Quote:
Right now,with huge insurance companies paying most of the bills,people have no incentive to find the best value, and doctors have no incentive to compete if they know that they can only bill x amount.

my understanding is that many insurance companies have set maximum fees that they will pay for a service .
i further understand that some doctors will not accept patients insured through some low paying insurance companies unless they are willing to pay the diference out of their own pocket - or is that incorrect information ?
hbg

Some physicians today won't take any kind of insurance and want instead COLD CASH...

Thats their right.
After all,they are trying to make a living also.
And I would bet that if you checked,their costs and fees are lower then what a Dr getting paid thru insurance gets for the same procedure.

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Quote:

And I would bet that if you checked,their costs and fees are lower then what a Dr getting paid thru insurance gets for the same procedure.

Nah! Greater profit for the physician who doesn't have to pay
office assistants to file insurance claims.

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If I didn't have Medicare, and I found a doctor doing physical exams for $50 bucks, I'll tip him too! Hell, a dentist looks in my mouth for less than a minute and charges $35.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

If I didn't have Medicare, and I found a doctor doing physical exams for $50 bucks, I'll tip him too! Hell, a dentist looks in my mouth for less than a minute and charges $35.

A physical in Massachusttes, not including lab tests is about $150.

I think the dentists up here in the Boston area charge about $70 for a consultation.

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A physical exam for a dog is about $30-50 ( no labs).

Incidentally, the lyme immunization for a dog is $44 for the first shot and $44 for the booster. The insurance pays $10, I pay the balance... Crying or Very sad

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cicerone imposter wrote:

If I didn't have Medicare, and I found a doctor doing physical exams for $50 bucks, I'll tip him too! Hell, a dentist looks in my mouth for less than a minute and charges $35.

The problem with medicare,as I see it, is that it devalues people to much.
Sure,it pays your medical bills,but it only pays a certain amount.

I dont know the amounts it pays,so bear with me thru this example.

Doctors go to school for many years,and they pay quite a bit for their education.

Now,if medicare comes along and only pays $500 for a hip replacement (and I readily admit that I am using these numbers as an example,I dont know what medicare pays), then that is telling a Dr that the govt thinks his training,knowledge,and experience is only worth $500.

To me,that seems like devalueing experience and knowledge to a point that eventually people wont want to become Dr's or wont take medicare or medicaid at all.

I lost one Dr because he was going broke dealing with medicare,so he closed the doors on his private practice and went to work for a hospital.
He can make more money with less hassles at a hospital.

BTW,he was my cancer Dr.

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Quote:

I dont know the amounts it pays,so bear with me thru this example

Medicare pays about 80%, while Medicaid pays about 25% of the assessed costs to the billed physician.

Same is true for animal health insurance.

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Miller wrote:

A physical exam for a dog is about $30-50 ( no labs).

Incidentally, the lyme immunization for a dog is $44 for the first shot and $44 for the booster. The insurance pays $10, I pay the balance...

An MRI for a dog is $2000, and insurance pays about $1200.

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So. let me ask a question here. Say we switch to a universal healthcare program... What's going to happen? Are people suddenly go on diets, exercise more, drive more carefully, lower their cholesterol levels, quit smoking, stop drinking, etc...?

What is it about universal healthcare that's going to increase American lifespans and lower infant mortality? These are the stats bandied about, so what's going to change? Are hospitals going to get an influx of new doctors? Are poor women going to have transportation and jobs provided to them and childcare for their babies to insure their survival?

I would like some input on this from those that support Universal Healthcare. What will actually change for anyone? I mean besides taxes going up.

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Wednesday, August 08, 2007
John Stossel: I Support Universal Health Care In Wisconsin

By Rob on August 8, 2007 at 10:19 am

Why, you're asking yourself, would an avowed libertarian like Stossel say he supports government health care? Because he wants it to fail, thus presenting an object lesson for the rest of the nation.

The fall of the Soviet Union deprived us of the biggest example of how socialism works. We need laboratories of failure to demonstrate what socialism is like. All we have now is Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, the U.S. Post Office, and state motor-vehicle departments.

It's not enough. Wisconsin can show the other 49 states what "universal" coverage is like.

Quite right.

As I pointed out, the Wisconsin health care plan is doomed to fail. Already the sponsors of it are saying that it will cost about $3 billion more than the state already takes in revenue from income, sales and corporate income taxes. The new revenue from the program will come from payroll taxes paid by working citizens of Wisconsin, though one need not be a worker in Wisconsin to qualify for the program. One need only be a citizen, which requires nothing more than residency for a year.

So what's the end result going to be? Sounds to me like workers will flee the excessively higher taxes while lay-abouts who can't be bothered to provide for themselves move in to cash in on this new entitlement.

It will fail, and America should be paying attention as it fails.

www.sayanythingblog.com

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McGentrix wrote:

So. let me ask a question here. Say we switch to a universal healthcare program... What's going to happen? Are people suddenly go on diets, exercise more, drive more carefully, lower their cholesterol levels, quit smoking, stop drinking, etc...?

What is it about universal healthcare that's going to increase American lifespans and lower infant mortality? These are the stats bandied about, so what's going to change? Are hospitals going to get an influx of new doctors? Are poor women going to have transportation and jobs provided to them and childcare for their babies to insure their survival?

I would like some input on this from those that support Universal Healthcare. What will actually change for anyone? I mean besides taxes going up.

We have Universal Health Care in Massachusetts, and one consequence is physicians are refusing to take on any more patients. They're booked to capacity so some folks have to run around trying to find an MD . They'll probably end up getting a new physician, fresh out of a residency and eager...

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Not all doctors are created equal; it usually depends on the specialty, location, supply and demand.

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IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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