IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

@georgeob1,

I know; I've complained about Obama's campaign promises, and how he ignored many of them during his first year in office.

I will not trust him in the future.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Here's another Obama promise that he broke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LsSppYxSHk

Today from AP:

Quote:

AP Exclusive: Obama wants $33 billion more for war (AP)

AP - The Obama administration plans to ask Congress for an additional $33 billion to fight unpopular wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, on top of a record request for $708 billion for the Defense Department next year, The Associated Press has learned.

We can "take it to the bank" all right; he lies.

Obama believes he can succeed in Afghanistan with a corrupt government, and the defeat of Russia in that country. How does he intend to be successful in Afghanistan with a corrupt government, and a country splintered into hundreds of different leadership?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vpCBpTbEds&feature=related

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

From what I've seen and read about Afghanistan, our occupation in that country provides the people in the Middle East to volunteer into their terrorist organizations and become suicide bombers. This is because the Arabs see us killing innocent Arabs while our country supports Israel. Their hate grows when their family members and friends are killed by Americans.

0 Replies

After reading the healthcare bill put out by the House, I did some cursory research into the healthcare systems of several other countries and so far I'm inclined to favor Germany's system the most.

Truth be told, I don't think it's possible to compare (fairly) the healthcare needs of such diverse countries (I looked at Canada, France, Japan, the UK and Switzerland) to the U.S. and say that such and such a system could work here just fine. Perhaps with some tweaking.

For instance, Germany is about the size of Montana and has about a third the population of the U.S. From my limited research so far, though, I do like the limited control the German government plays in their healthcare system. Comparatively, H.R. 3200 is a bureaucratic nightmare. So, it's pretty clear to me after reading it why they wanted to keep the discussion sessions behind closed doors. If the majority in this country actually read the bill, they'd probably storm Washington, LOL.

Surely, we can do better.

2 Replies

@Irishk,

Quote:

Surely, we can do better.

I haven't seen any real evidence that we can do better, for two reasons:

1, corporate influence in our government is out of control, and
2, half our political system is willing to wreck the entire ship to hurt Obama, because they have nothing else to do.

Cycloptichron

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Do you like the bill as it's written?

2 Replies

@Irishk,

Irishk wrote:

Do you like the bill as it's written?

Nope; the Democrats allowed the bill to be effectively hijacked by the coalition of the health insurance industry and the Republican party, with help from a few weeping assholes like Ben Nelson and Max Baucus. We traded away everything good in the bill and got nothing in return. Still, the sad part of our country's situation is, the bill is STILL better than the current situation in many ways. So I would like to see it passed. Legislation that is flawed can be fixed once it's passed, far easier than passing perfect legislation right off the bat.

Welcome to A2k, by the way.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Thanks for the welcome.

0 Replies

@Irishk,

There's another consequence for passing this bad bill; voters will be very unhappy with a) the closed door sessions (that was supposed to be on C-Span as promised by Obama), and b) most Americans will not be happy with this bill, and democrats lose in subsequent elections..

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Well, I certainly don't have all the answers. I do wish we could just concentrate on passing the best bill that will benefit all and get away from wading around in all the rest of the muck, though. And yes, I think it crucial that any discussion of something that will so affect us should be OPEN to all. Anything less is a travesty and makes me think they're hiding something.

1 Reply

@Irishk,

Unfortunately, democrat's myopia to get health care reform accomplished has ended up being worse than no bill at all. One of the options to pay for the added cost of insurine 31-more people by increasing tax on the wealthy has been dropped.

This is from the AP this morning:

Quote:

...Democratic leaders to narrow differences between the House and Senate over how generous the package's benefits should be and how to pay for them.

Congressional aides said the session was expected to last hours " the latest indication that Democrats want the health drive, which began when Obama took office a year ago, to bear fruit before his State of the Union address, perhaps in early February.

As if to illustrate the clash between the two chambers, the House's senior lawmaker " Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich. " said a Senate-approved tax on expensive insurance plans "seems kind of dumb to me." Labor leaders and House Democrats have said the plan would hit union members and many middle-class families.

They still don't know what the benefits will be, and how much it's going to cost. This has been my complaint from the beginning.

1 Reply

@Irishk,

You didn't ask me, but I think the bills are acceptable and a start.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I agree. I'm looking up some of what was told to us during the campaign (if you like your current plan you can keep it, etc.) to see if I need to get my hearing checked LOL.

0 Replies

@Advocate,

To be honest, I'm not sure what the 'current' bill encompasses or whether it resembles the one I read at all.

Debate in the open would be a big help, but they've apparently decided they don't want us to know what they're discussing.

How convenient for them.

1 Reply

@Irishk,

What bothers me most is the simple fact that Obama promised "transparency" and that the health care debate will be shown on C-Span.

Obama has lied on more campaign promises, so how can Americans continue to trust him?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Of course, no politician campaigning for office ever promised opacity, fraud, duplication, waste, mismanagement, and more of the same.

We really need to learn to look for the details beyond the great, sweeping statements. Not that either candidate in the last presidential election had much to offer in the detail department. . . .

2 Replies

@roger,

roger, We (most of us) were expecting more from Obama. My mistake.

From AP:

Quote:

With polls showing public support for Obama's health care effort slowly dropping, House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio told GOP lawmakers that they could still sink the legislation. Republican leaders said they believed dozens of House Democrats who supported the initial bill might feel pressure to abandon the final version because of potential changes in provisions on abortion, Medicare cuts and federal Medicaid aid to states.

"The bottom line is, I believe we can beat this bill," Boehner told House Republicans in a closed-door meeting, according to his aides. "The American people are with us."

0 Replies

@roger,

One detail I recall is that Obama promised, on at least a half dozen occasions, that the healthcare proceedings would be televised on C-Span, obviously recognizing that a bill of this importance and controversy deserved such transparency.

Brian Lamb of the C-Span network offered to cover the negotiations live, an offer to which Obama has apparently replied, "Thanks, but no thanks".

Instead we have closed proceedings and Obama is not honoring his promises.

The majority of the public does not support the legislation that is being discussed in secret and to my knowledge there's been no explanation for the secrecy.

Obama lied, flat out. That's not a sweeping statement, it's a fact.

1 Reply

@Irishk,

You see the same thing I see; Obama just flat out lied to the American people to get elected.

If Obama had said he will keep all legislative work under wraps/secrecy, I'm sure he would never have won the election.

A good lesson for his children and all children in this country; it's okay for the president to lie to the people.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone, I've been more perplexed and frustrated than angry, but I was just reading comments from the Obama supporters over at FireDogLake and they are furious! I can't repeat most of it LOL, but I do understand that after working long hours, using perhaps resources not easily affordable, to get this man elected, the feeling of betrayal is palpable. Hopefully, their venting will bring them some peace, but I do think he's lost their support maybe forever.

1 Reply

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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