IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

What a motherfu*ker.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100106/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul

Quote:
WASHINGTON " The White House was put on the defensive Wednesday after President Barack Obama pushed congressional leaders to fast-track health care legislation behind closed doors despite his campaign promises of an open process.

maporsche, this is no surprise at all, none whatsoever, to conservatives that listened to Obama make all of his promises for the purpose of getting elected. You could tell it was all carefully constructed for the purpose of campaigning. Extremists, such as Obama is, do not believe in open and honest government. Marxists only do what they have to do to get elected, to gain power. Laugh if you want about my mention of Marxism, but face the truth, study the man's past history and then face the truth about the guy. He is nothing more than a cheap Chicago community thug politician with Marxist beliefs and aspirations. If you don't believe it, study Saul Alinsky and all of the other shady characters in Obama's past.

I keep repeating the above, but maybe more and more people will wake up about Obama.

2 Replies

@okie,

They'll wake up like you did, but your brain is dead!

0 Replies

From AP:

Quote:

Differences include whom to tax, how many people to cover, how to restrict taxpayer funding for abortion and whether illegal immigrants should be allowed to buy coverage in the new markets with their own money. The House bill covers about 36 million uninsured Americans over 10 years, costing more than $1 trillion, while the cheaper Senate bill covers about 31 million.

0 Replies

@okie,

Okie,
I don't see it the way you do. I think the Dems in Congress are certain that they are smarter than the American public. They think the 62% of us that disfavor the bills simply don't know what is good for us. Therefore, like patient and more-experienced parents, they will simply force their will on us ignorant and rebellious children.

They anticipate that once we actually get a taste of the bill, we'll recognize their wisdom and gratefully return to them, singing their praises and enlarging (or at least maintaining) their majorities in Congress. And unfortunately, I'm afraid that a considerable number of Americans will eventually succumb to that siren call of a new healthcare entitlement.

Having said that, I think their strategy will backfire. Americans don't hold with despots and their lackeys well even when they come bearing gifts. They greatly prefer representatives that actually represent them and will fire those who don't understand that.

2 Replies

@slkshock7,

I think the Dems realize that the Reps have and will continue to fight every initiative that comes from Obama and the Dems, regardless of merit. This is probably why the right was wrong in its opposition to women's suffrange, child labor laws, civil rights, the minimum wage, Medicare, and social security. The right is now wrong on health-care reform. Indeed, the Dems feel that the Reps will have to stay silent once reform takes hold with the public and is extremely popular, as it is in every country with universal.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

the Dems feel that the Reps will have to stay silent once reform takes hold with the public and is extremely popular, as it is in every country with universal.

Have you ever been in the US military? Or had other experience with a "universal healthcare" system run by the US Government? There is no question that the quality of the physicians and the care itself is sub-standard to that received on the outside....ask any soldier. That is why every soldier chooses to go outside the system for his/her care whenever possible. No lines, access to the latest medicines and procedures, far more comfortable facilities and superior, higher qualified doctors.

Therefore, assuming it passes, this program will not be popular for several years, as people are able to compare and contrast the care they receive today with that they will receive under the new system. But you are correct in that eventually the substandard level of care will become the norm. People will simply forget how good it was....

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

Is it true that you have never heard of Medicare? It is a single-payer, government-run plan that is extremely popular with those on both the left and the right. It doesn't employ doctors or run hospitals, but acts like an insurance company. Its overhead is one-tenth of that in the private sector.

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

slkshock7 wrote:

Okie,
I don't see it the way you do. I think the Dems in Congress are certain that they are smarter than the American public. They think the 62% of us that disfavor the bills simply don't know what is good for us. Therefore, like patient and more-experienced parents, they will simply force their will on us ignorant and rebellious children.

They anticipate that once we actually get a taste of the bill, we'll recognize their wisdom and gratefully return to them, singing their praises and enlarging (or at least maintaining) their majorities in Congress. And unfortunately, I'm afraid that a considerable number of Americans will eventually succumb to that siren call of a new healthcare entitlement.

Having said that, I think their strategy will backfire. Americans don't hold with despots and their lackeys well even when they come bearing gifts. They greatly prefer representatives that actually represent them and will fire those who don't understand that.

I don't think our opinions are very far apart. I agree the Democrats are arrogant in that they believe they are smarter than us, and they look at Social Security and Medicare as indicators of how they think their eventual desired single payer health care will turn out. It is true that those 2 past programs have wide support, but what is being ignored by most of those people supporting those programs is that those two programs are going broke, and are instrumental in being budget busters and national debt drivers up to now, only to accelerate in the future. And national health care, whether it be turning the insurance industry into essentially a national utility or whether it morphs into single payer nationalized health care as they plan, it will only add to our nation's debt and budget woes. In summary, there is no free lunch.

Actually, our government is doing what we as citizens are doing on a smaller scale in our out of control personal debt, so our collective mindset is now being instituted by government, and by politicians that will promise us something for nothing. Of course, this mindset will eventually reap what it sows. And I also believe such a collective mindset is fertile ground for extreme socialists and Marxists, as I believe Obama is, to gain and expand their power. So the situation currently plays into the hands of people like Obama, and it will truly be a test of our collective character and will to turn the tide and return to an atmosphere of responsible government spending and individual liberty and freedom.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie, You don't know the meaning of "arrogance," because you don't have any recollection of what Bush did during his eight years in office.

0 Replies

@Advocate,

My issue is on the quality of healthcare today vs what we can expect should Obamacare pass. Your point about Medicare adds nothing to the argument...

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

slkshock

I understand not wanting to have the government involved in any way with your/my/our healthcare. I don't *want* that either.

The reason I'm not as concerned as I should be is because I see the health insurance company currently in the role that we don't want the government to play.

It seems that we're trading one 'evil' for another (we're not really, but you know what I mean). At the end of the day I see it being transparent to citizens.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Maporsche,

Yes, you're right, but at least you have the ability to choose who the middleman is or even choose not to have any middleman at all. Under Obamacare, that freedom goes away....pick an insurance company or pick the Government....there is no third option.

2 Replies

@slkshock7,

How many choices do you really have in the marketplace for anything you buy?

How does health insurance purchase differ from all other kinds of purchase?

Are you covered under social security and/or medicare?

How many choices do you have under Medicare?

What are the government controls?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

You're being rhetorical, right? In this great land, I can think of only a very few things that I have only a few choices...utilities are one of the rare exceptions. And when I'm of age, I can choose to use social security/medicare or use anyone of hundreds of other insurance plans, or even pay the bills myself. What are you trying to say, CI?

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

Quote:

Under Obamacare, that freedom goes away....pick an insurance company or pick the Government....there is no third option.

You are only upset with mandate of being made to buy insurance? If that mandate were taken out, would more people support the health insurance reform? What if instead of being made to choose an insurance option, there were penalties attached if in the event you have medical bills you cannot pay for if you decided not to choose one of the options?

1 Reply

@slkshock7,

slkshock7 wrote:

You're being rhetorical, right? In this great land, I can think of only a very few things that I have only a few choices...utilities are one of the rare exceptions. And when I'm of age, I can choose to use social security/medicare or use anyone of hundreds of other insurance plans, or even pay the bills myself. What are you trying to say, CI?

Just out of curiosity, how many health insurance comapnies are there in your state? [We've got more than 200 in the mandatory system plus 42 exclusively in the private sector.]

1 Reply

@revel,

Can't say there's too much in what you've proposed that I would have problems with. Have to think about your penalty suggestion a bit more though...that's a bit too much like the banks that allow you to overdraft your account and then bill you for it. Would prefer services not be provided if they can't be afforded.

I'd also prefer that the reform include some better measures of controlling costs e.g. tort reform. Right now, as written, I'm totally convinced the only people that gain with this proposed law will be those 30 million or so who are uninsured today. Everyone else will suffer with increased costs and poorer services.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

I have no idea...I know my company offers at least a dozen to choose from.

4 Replies

@slkshock7,

Well, more than a dozen different health insurance companies is quite a choice. (I've heard, you don't have more than a handful in many states.)

0 Replies

@slkshock7,

Your company offers a dozen? Please list them for us. I've worked in management for several companies, and the options available numbered less than 3 or 4, but usually only one.

1 Reply

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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