65
   

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Nov, 2009 12:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

any reason we should not expect the program to be ended or gutted as soon as the republicans regain the majority? They likely will, possibly soon.


This ain't going to happen, just like the Reps couldn't even begin to dump Medicare after it passed without any Rep support to speak of. The public would not allow this new health reform to be dumped.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Nov, 2009 12:24 pm
@Advocate,
They're already looking at ways to kill their party. LOL
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Nov, 2009 04:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Big question mark: Fate of health care in Senate (AP)

Nov. 8, 2009, in Washington. (AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta)AP - The glow from a health care triumph faded quickly for President Barack Obama on Sunday as Democrats realized the bill they fought so hard to pass in the House has nowhere to go in the Senate.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 04:19 pm
Quote:
CBO: Senate Bill Costs $849 Billion, Major Deficit Reducer
Brian Beutler | November 18, 2009, 4:52PM

Democratic leadership has distributed figures to reporters from a CBO analysis of Senate health care legislation. The numbers affirm what we reported this morning--that Majority Leader Harry Reid is very pleased.

The health care bill--which includes an opt-out public option--will require $849 billion over 10 years in new spending, to be paid for with cuts to Medicare, while reducing the deficit by $127 billion.

In that time it will extend coverage to 31 million Americans--94 percent of citizens will be covered by 2019.

Over the second 10 years, CBO projects even greater cost savings--up to $650 billion, with the caveat that after 10 years, their analyses become highly uncertain.

This meets all of President Obama's goals, and, as has been the pattern during this legislative process, the Senate bill comes at a lower cost, and with greater cost-savings than the House bill, while the House bill covers more Americans.


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/cbo-senate-bill-costs-849-billion-major-deficit-reducer.php?ref=fpa

Booyah

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 05:48 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The health care industry can't save that kind of money without revamping all the unnecessary, costly, tests that doctors order. It's also about inventory waste, and paper record-keeping.

We all know the rants; the conservatives don't want government control over our health care no matter how much waste is currently in the system. The liberals want to ensure over 30-million more without increasing the supply; how does one do that? Most hospitals will tell you they're already stretched to the max, and losing money.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 05:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I have already explained ci. that UHC is a non-starter in the US. It can't be done.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 05:53 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/005647.html

Quote:
Real median household income remained unchanged between 2003 and 2004 at $44,389, according to a report released today by the U.S. Census Bureau. Meanwhile, the nation’s official poverty rate rose from 12.5 percent in 2003 to 12.7 percent in 2004. The percentage of the nation’s population without health insurance coverage remained stable, at 15.7 percent in 2004. The number of people with health insurance increased by 2.0 million to 245.3 million between 2003 and 2004, and the number without such coverage rose by 800,000 to 45.8 million.


So, as of 2004, there were 84% with insurance. We can achieve 94%, and it only costs 849 billion. What a bargain. Paid for with cuts to Medicare, of course. Medicare cuts are looking like something between 350 billion and 500 billion, and this is all going to cut the deficit by 127 billion. I'm gonna go get religion. This is a miracle.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 05:54 pm
@roger,
You'll need more than religion for those government numbers to work out! LOL
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 06:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

The health care industry can't save that kind of money without revamping all the unnecessary, costly, tests that doctors order. It's also about inventory waste, and paper record-keeping.

We all know the rants; the conservatives don't want government control over our health care no matter how much waste is currently in the system. The liberals want to ensure over 30-million more without increasing the supply; how does one do that? Most hospitals will tell you they're already stretched to the max, and losing money.




Perhaps having nurses available to go to the home would alleviate overcrowding, if any. There is now an excess of beds. There will be more use of PAs and NPs, with doctors merely supervising.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Nov, 2009 06:40 pm
@Advocate,
RNs are now in high demand; where are they coming from?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Nov, 2009 10:28 am
@roger,
roger wrote:

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/005647.html

Quote:
Real median household income remained unchanged between 2003 and 2004 at $44,389, according to a report released today by the U.S. Census Bureau. Meanwhile, the nation’s official poverty rate rose from 12.5 percent in 2003 to 12.7 percent in 2004. The percentage of the nation’s population without health insurance coverage remained stable, at 15.7 percent in 2004. The number of people with health insurance increased by 2.0 million to 245.3 million between 2003 and 2004, and the number without such coverage rose by 800,000 to 45.8 million.


So, as of 2004, there were 84% with insurance. We can achieve 94%, and it only costs 849 billion. What a bargain.


10% of our population is 30 million people. That's a lot of people to help. Takes a lot of money to get it done. Now, I realize that many on the right wing don't give a **** if these people live or die, but it's harming us as a nation, in a wide variety of ways, to have such poor health care coverage.

There's also the issue of under-coverage. The bill doesn't just add new people into the system, it prevents many of the worst excesses of the Health insurance industry, such as recission.

Quote:
Paid for with cuts to Medicare, of course. Medicare cuts are looking like something between 350 billion and 500 billion, and this is all going to cut the deficit by 127 billion. I'm gonna go get religion. This is a miracle.


The cuts to Medicare are primarily cuts to Medicare Advantage - a program which uses our tax dollars to subsidize private insurance. No problem cutting that, bro.

But, it's inaccurate to say it's going to be 'paid for' by cuts to Medicare. It will be paid for by a combination of taxes on the rich and premiums paid into those who enroll in the public option.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 12:42 pm
Pardon me if this idea has been floated already. Perhaps it's just the packaging making this so hard to accept for some. I propose we rename Health Reform: Star Wars, Phase 9 1/2. Label it for the security issue that it is.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 03:51 pm
@edgarblythe,
I propose we rename it "Democratic Health Care Boondoggle of the Century." Here it is for anyone that has the time to read over 2,000 pages of crap. And this is what we are paying these congressmen to do? I vote for firing every last one of them that had any hand in creating this.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/111909_ReidBill.pdf
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 05:34 pm
@okie,
Why is UHC a boondoggle for our country? Has UHC been a boondoggle for most of the developed countries that has UHC? Why not?

When did you read the 2,000 pages of crap? I doubt you understand a word in it.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 07:53 pm
@okie,
I just voted on the Fox News poll as to whether senators should read the bill before voting. I voted yes, which places me with 99% of the other voters, but I have a sort of different thought, I think they should not only have to read it to hopefully know whats in it, I say "hopefully" in a fairly nonconfident way, but also I think they should have to read it for punishment, I think proper punishment for this mess wreaked upon us would be to have to read it out loud word for word 100 times over.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 08:20 pm
@okie,
You voted "yes" based on personal ignorance; you know absolutely nothing contained in the legislation.

When have you ever voted yes or no on a textbook required reading in school?

Voting on something you know nothing about has about as much sense as most of your posts; total ignorance.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 08:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Now, that just doesn't make any sense. Why should they be voting on a bill that they haven't read? Sure, they can pretend to understand it, and it looks good to the voters back home, but how can they possibly know what is in it?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 09:00 pm
@roger,
from what I can tell, reading the bill isn't going to add any understanding to what's in the bill. No one on either side of the issue seems to have any grasp of what's in the bill including the ones who wrote it. And then, we have the commentary such as I read here on a2k essentially proving that NO ONE has any clue about what's in the bill. I sure as hell couldn't vote one way or another whether or not it gets read on the floor of the senate or not which probably puts me on equal footing with the entire senate.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 10:02 pm
@dyslexia,
Is this about reading it on the floor of the Senate? The only virtue there would be to keep them out of trouble for a few days.

Ah well, I suppose it's the norm to pass laws without knowing more than the title. I'm recalling The Employee Free Choice Act. Sounds good, doesn't it? Let's vote it in.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2009 10:05 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Is this about reading it on the floor of the Senate? The only virtue there would be to keep them out of trouble for a few days.
not a bad idea, not bad at all.
0 Replies
 
 

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