IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

You wrote a lot of words, but didn't address the simple fact that the 'medical loss ratio' of insurance industries is extremely important to their profit margins, and a huge amount of pressure exists for them to pay as few claims as possible. You are acting as a pure apologist for this system, as if these perverse incentives do not exist.Cycloptichorn

okie wrote:

What? The public option is the government run health care, is it not?

This debate forum is getting bizarre, I thought you were still one of the sensible ones here, McGentrix?

No, the public option is merely another insurance plan. Does nothing to curtail health care costs at all or fix any of the myriad of issues that we have.

I am talking about govt run hospitals and clinics, tax payer funded, that directly service patients and employ doctors, nurses, etc. No insurance needed.

I think your suggestion of government run hospitals and clinics, directly run by the government, is more like what you would find in North Korea or Cuba than even Germany or other socialistic countries. You are talking about a communistic practice applied to health care.

I don't think actual government run hospitals and clinics have ever been said to be what even the Democrats want. Perhaps that is what they ultimately want, but even in other countries with single payer health care, that does not mean the entire industry or even part of it is run by the government.

They may run it, but not directly, they run it through mandates and regulations, etc. For example, look at Medicare, it is a government program, but doctors and hospitals do not work directly for the government, they are still technically privately run, but bill the government for services covered by Medicare.

I think your suggestion of government run hospitals and clinics, directly run by the government, is more like what you would find in North Korea or Cuba than even Germany or other socialistic countries. You are talking about a communistic practice applied to health care.

You may be visualizing only the government offering their services as an option to compete with or operate alongside of the private sector. However, realize one huge point, if you had the government begin to sell hamburgers at fast food places throughout the entire country, and they could also write the rules for that industry, for hiring, for the kinds of stores, for how they are managed, and how much could be charged, how long do you think it would take for them to put every competitor out of business? They could do that very quickly and easily by making the playing field uneven. Remember, their competition pays taxes to support them, which is not something they have to do, they simply operate with tax support, they receive tax money, while the competition pays it.

The government is a lot more competent and efficient than is private enterprise. However, the government is not innovative or entrepreneurial.

Advocate wrote:

The government is a lot more competent and efficient than is private enterprise. However, the government is not innovative or entrepreneurial.

Perhaps you could entertain us with a couple of specific examples of this heretofore undetected phenomenon.

okie wrote:

I don't think actual government run hospitals and clinics have ever been said to be what even the Democrats want. Perhaps that is what they ultimately want, but even in other countries with single payer health care, that does not mean the entire industry or even part of it is run by the government.

No, this is what I want. I have expressed what I would like to see here.

Quote:

They may run it, but not directly, they run it through mandates and regulations, etc. For example, look at Medicare, it is a government program, but doctors and hospitals do not work directly for the government, they are still technically privately run, but bill the government for services covered by Medicare.

I think your suggestion of government run hospitals and clinics, directly run by the government, is more like what you would find in North Korea or Cuba than even Germany or other socialistic countries. You are talking about a communistic practice applied to health care.

Maybe, but I was thinking more like the UK and some central American countries. I don't really think is communistic, at least no more then say the IRS or the US Postal Service is. Though neither would really be a good model for a health care system. I just think that if we are going to spend that much money, I'd really rather see an actual service returned for the cash.

Quote:

You may be visualizing only the government offering their services as an option to compete with or operate alongside of the private sector. However, realize one huge point, if you had the government begin to sell hamburgers at fast food places throughout the entire country, and they could also write the rules for that industry, for hiring, for the kinds of stores, for how they are managed, and how much could be charged, how long do you think it would take for them to put every competitor out of business? They could do that very quickly and easily by making the playing field uneven. Remember, their competition pays taxes to support them, which is not something they have to do, they simply operate with tax support, they receive tax money, while the competition pays it.

It's not an easy decision, but it seems the future has some sort of health care crap in line for us. May as well express what I would rather see.

Okie -- you've made the comparison to the school system before and I agree with you, it's a fair comparison. What you don't answer is why you see the school system as failed. It isn't failing where I live. ....

Failure is also due to cultural problems, broken families, etc., and we are not enacting government policies to encourage families and reward them.

Cyclo appears to share the mentality of a Soviet political commisar. I doubt that he really understsands that reference,m but it appears to fit him well.

Cyclo appears to share the mentality of a Soviet political commisar. I doubt that he really understsands that reference,m but it appears to fit him well.