IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Your assertions are simply untrue. I and my health insurer are equally bound by the contract establishing our relationship. If I don't like their actions, I can sue - and many have done so. Government cannot be sued at will as can private entities. In addition, I can switch to another of my employer's plans; or simply buy another policy myself. If you get your way we will all be "taken care of" by some government agency that will impose very severe restrictions on our ability to contest its actions and which will eventually deprive us all of any alternative to it.

I do know that our insurance system is different, especially our health insurances.
But we can change between insurers, when we don't like them. (Which is done quite frequently, by the way.)
Interestingly that's easier with 200 insurance companies of the mandatory system than it is with the 50 companies in the private sector.

Another 'plus': I don't have to deal with some agent but an employee of the company.
And if there are some problems which can't be solved - there's the court system - social courts just and only deal with cases concerning the public health insurance, long-term care insurance, pension insurance and occupational accident insurance schmees. (Trials at the Social Courts > appeals at the Superior State Social Courts > most important cases/appeals at the Federal Social Court.)

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I noticed that the right loves to quote the Washington Examiner. You should know that this is a tabloid distributed free only in the Washington burbs, and only to very well-to-do areas. It is basically a shopper tabloid that is utterly conservative. Thus, it is silly to constantly quote this very biased, extremely marginal, rag.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
You cannot change bureaucrats, you are stuck with the losers. Electing different people, sounds good, but individuals cannot do that, it is not a personal choice because it depends upon what everyone else votes for.

Pfff, how anti-American of you. If you don't believe in Democratic representation, find another place to live, buddy.
Cycloptichorn

No way, you get lost, and you go find another place to live, where you might find the tyranny of the majority. Some things are subject to democracy, but not the rights that I should hold as an individual, buddy, yes buddy if you want to talk buddy. I have no intention of asking the voters of this country which hardware store or restaurant I darken the doors of, and so why should I have to do the same with the most dear thing that I have, my health?

You know what, cyclops, you sit here as a guy that values the life of a worm as highly as a human, and you are going to try to tell the rest of us what health insurance we are supposed to have? I am fed up with your ilk.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
You cannot change bureaucrats, you are stuck with the losers. Electing different people, sounds good, but individuals cannot do that, it is not a personal choice because it depends upon what everyone else votes for.

Pfff, how anti-American of you. If you don't believe in Democratic representation, find another place to live, buddy.
Cycloptichorn

No way, you get lost, and you go find another place to live, where you might find the tyranny of the majority. Some things are subject to democracy, but not the rights that I should hold as an individual, buddy, yes buddy if you want to talk buddy. I have no intention of asking the voters of this country which hardware store or restaurant I darken the doors of, and so why should I have to do the same with the most dear thing that I have, my health?

Nobody is asking you to do that. You might recall that the Democrats are not pushing a Socialized health system. We're just fixing it for all the people you don't give a **** about.

Quote:

You know what, cyclops, you sit here as a guy that values the life of a worm as highly as a human, and you are going to try to tell the rest of us what health insurance we are supposed to have? I am fed up with your ilk.

I don't value a worm's life as highly as a human. But; wouldn't you agree with me that the worm probably does?

It's all a matter of perspective, buddy.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Nobody is asking you to do that. You might recall that the Democrats are not pushing a Socialized health system. We're just fixing it for all the people you don't give a **** about.

Comments like that are pathetic. Because I am not in favor of giving everything to everybody does not mean I don't care about them. You have a very twisted view of life if one is expected to fork over everything demanded of them merely to show you care about them. If you ever raised children, you would at least know that love is not expressed by giving them everything they want.

Quote:

Idon't value a worm's life as highly as a human. But; wouldn't you agree with me that the worm probably does?

It's all a matter of perspective, buddy.

Cycloptichorn

This statement, my friends, is a great example of how far out Mr. cyclops is. You are truly a very twisted guy, cyclops. Apparently you don't give the same consideration to an unborn human baby, do you, that somehow you give to a worm. You are indeed a very mixed up person.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclops, another point I want to make for your benefit and others reading this thread, your posts seem to typify, I don't know if you get your marching orders from other people on the left, but all of you starting right at the top, principally Obama, you are all engaged in demonizing the medical private companies such as the insurance industry. Take note people, Obama did the same thing with the auto business, remember the mantra about executives flying private jets, etc.? Then he got the government into GM and Chrysler. Remember the banks as well, they were demonized.

Rush is right now talking about how he was approached to invest in the Rams, but then the demonization started, and then the rug pulled out from under him. Apparently the politicians in Washington now think they can control who owns what?

Also realize this very important issue as well, the administration is ratcheting up the criticism and media mantra against Fox News and any media figure that dares to criticize them. I suspect this is just a ploy to somehow make the case that government should take over or dictate the news industry. After all, this is the methods they have used in other industries, and it is in fact the precise game they are playing to try to control and ultimately nationalize the medical insurance industry.

This country is truly under assault by people that hate private enterprise, that despise business, that despise personal freedom and liberty. It is evident that Obama and the left are sympathetic to Marxist principles, and their methods somewhat mirror the fascist and Marxist methods used in other places around the world. One of the tactics they customarily use is to demonize industries and businesses. This is a slap in the face to every American that loves liberty, with millions having died for it in our history.

Wake up, America!

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

but all of you starting right at the top, principally Obama, you are all engaged in demonizing the medical private companies such as the insurance industry.

We call it 'accurately describing.' You call it Demonizing. But you don't mention how we are 'demonizing' them. What have I alleged about insurance companies which is untrue? Please be specific.

Quote:

Take note people, Obama did the same thing with the auto business, remember the mantra about executives flying private jets, etc.? Then he got the government into GM and Chrysler. Remember the banks as well, they were demonized.

Obama didn't say anything about 'private jets.' The media and politicians and the right-wing helped on that one. You will recall that the auto companies were coming begging for a bailout at that time, Obama didn't just decide to 'get into' GM and Chrysler. And he hasn't 'gotten into' the banks, either; you have very little understanding of the actual events which have taken place over the last year, apparently.

Quote:

Rush is right now talking about how he was approached to invest in the Rams, but then the demonization started, and then the rug pulled out from under him. Apparently the politicians in Washington now think they can control who owns what?

Rush has nobody to blame but himself. When you make a career out of divisive invective, you have to expect that a certain amount of people will not like you. Nobody is trying to shut him up, or telling him that he can't say whatever he wants; but his options have been limited due to his OWN actions, because people don't want to be associated with someone so hateful.

The rest of your post isn't really worth commenting on, as it isn't anything more than rambling on your part against everyone that you hate. You are a very hateful person, Okie, at least you come across that way.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Okie must be smiling when he writes about demonizing the insurance industry. The facts, of course, demonize it. Consider that 30 % of premiums go to overhead (including excessive compensation), when it is 3% for Medicare. Consider that it comes up with excuses to drop sick policyholders for flimsy reasons, and denies coverage to the old and people with preexisting conditions. Consider that it is effectively bribing congress. Consider that it puts out, and encourages, lies. The industry deserves all negative things said about it.

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@Advocate,

All anyone needs to know about the health insurance industry, is the fact that they only profit by denying service. It is one of the few business models in which such perverse incentives are built in to the system.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Advocate and cyclops prove my point. Leftists need boogeymen, scapegoats, whipping boys, sacrificial lambs, and villains to further their agenda. Thats how all famous leftists in history furthered their causes, they had to have their whipping boys and villains. The reason for that is their agenda cannot be sold on its merits. Their philosophy has a terrible track record of failure, so they can't sell their policies on their merits.

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@okie,

I note that you can't actually point out any specifics, but instead stick with nebulous muttering about 'Leftists.'

Point out what has been said about insurance companies which is untrue - or retract your statements. At least, that's what an intellectually honest person would do.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Rush has nobody to blame but himself. When you make a career out of divisive invective, you have to expect that a certain amount of people will not like you. Cycloptichorn

It has been demonstrated that in this Ram issue, the quotes of Rush saying something about the value of slavery thrown out there are fictitious, they made them up. Rush has many black friends. I have listened to him off and on for years, and the man is no way a racist. He was a huge defender of Clarence Thomsas for example, and a personal friend of Clarence. It is no secret that the race baiters like Jackson are not about race, they only use it to further their socialist agenda, and they are the self appointed so-called leaders of the black community that will literally attack and destroy any black conservative.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Advocate and cyclops prove my point. Leftists need boogeymen, scapegoats, whipping boys, sacrificial lambs, and villains to further their agenda. Thats how all famous leftists in history furthered their causes, they had to have their whipping boys and villains. The reason for that is their agenda cannot be sold on its merits. Their philosophy has a terrible track record of failure, so they can't sell their policies on their merits.

Okie, that is a lot of blather. Show us where our facts are incorrect, if you can. I guess you will next tell us that the banks have been great corporate citizens, serving the public well.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

All anyone needs to know about the health insurance industry, is the fact that they only profit by denying service. It is one of the few business models in which such perverse incentives are built in to the system.

Cycloptichorn

Nonsense. All insurance, whether life, automobile, general liability or health involves the pooling of risk and the acceptance of the average cost of that risk by all so insured.

The singular difference between health insurance and the other forms noted is that with health insurance we are pooling the risk attendant to frequently occurring events - routine and critical services by medical practicioners.

In every type of insurance there is some stratification of rates and segregation of pools based on the estimated risk. A life insurance policy for someone aged 75 costs a lot more than for one aged 25. Auto insurance for various models varies with model type & year and the driver's record. Factors ranging from damage cost & frequenct and things like the preference of thieves fort the model in question come into play. These steps are necessary to limit the degree to which some consumers or participants are systematically subsidized by others.

In every case limiting payment to the terms of the contract is implicit for all participants.

Life is a zero sum game. Cyclo is looking for some ficticious source oof infinite benefit to subsidize his wishes. It doesn't exist. He and the current majority party in our Congress propose to snap their fingers and create one -- in fact what they will ultimately do is destroy our currency and economy.

1 Reply

@okie,

"Rush has many black friends."

Rolling Eyes

(healthcare gentlemen)

and George...

"in fact what they will ultimately do is destroy our currency and economy."

I don't think healthcare started that ball rolling. it has been moving in that direction for a while now.

the more you point your elite old finger at the Dems, the less I respect your opinion.

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@Advocate,

The banks have treated me better than the government, which is going literally bankrupt. Social Security and Medicare is broke, period, and you guys are telling us that we need more bureaucracies to break us all. Common sense, you guys don't have it.

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

"Rush has many black friends."

(healthcare gentlemen)

Laugh if you want, but Rush is no way a racist. Listening today, and among the defenders was Hutch, a former Dallas Cowboy and friend, that called in. Apparently they are pretty close friends and have gone fishing on at least one occasion. As I said, Rush has had black call screeners for example,he was a huge defender of Clarence Thomas. He is a great admirer of Thomas Sowell. He has a substitute talk host, an economist professor Walter Williams, for many years now from time to time, a great guy, I have listened to him many times. Rush is about politics, not race, and it is the Jacksons and Sharpton types that are racists. Another example of a racist would be Obama's former mentor and pastor, the Reverend Wright.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

In every case limiting payment to the terms of the contract is implicit for all participants.

And making those terms as difficult to understand as possible, and canceling the contract retroactively whenever possible, are also apparently implicit.

You wrote a lot of words, but didn't address the simple fact that the 'medical loss ratio' of insurance industries is extremely important to their profit margins, and a huge amount of pressure exists for them to pay as few claims as possible. You are acting as a pure apologist for this system, as if these perverse incentives do not exist.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Rush has nobody to blame but himself. When you make a career out of divisive invective, you have to expect that a certain amount of people will not like you. Cycloptichorn

It has been demonstrated that in this Ram issue, the quotes of Rush saying something about the value of slavery thrown out there are fictitious, they made them up.

The fact that he didn't get the gig has nothing to do with some fictitious quote, it has everything to do with his comments about Donovan McNabb that got him canned from ESPN. Without those, he'd be sitting pretty right now.

Quote:

Rush has many black friends. I have listened to him off and on for years, and the man is no way a racist. He was a huge defender of Clarence Thomsas for example, and a personal friend of Clarence. It is no secret that the race baiters like Jackson are not about race, they only use it to further their socialist agenda, and they are the self appointed so-called leaders of the black community that will literally attack and destroy any black conservative.

I don't care if Rush is a 'racist' or not, he's a divisive and polarizing figure who has made a history of demonizing people and accusing them of all sorts of terrible things. That's not what the owners' association is looking to have associated with it.

Cycloptichorn

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@okie,

okie...

this is an eyeroll. (not a laugh)

laughter would mean you were funny.

you are not.

sad and pathetically paranoid would be closer...

1 Reply

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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