IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

No, I don't think it is bad; and I understand that is how it will work.

What I don't like though is that w/o the public option, you're basically giving the insurance companies a huge stimulus package w/o giving them any pressure to lower their premiums.

I'm fine with mandating health insurance IF there is a public option to force insurance companies to compete with SOMEBODY.

If there's no public option, then it's just a cash giveaway to the insurance industry.

I doubt they can lower the premiums for everyone. I was assuming they would have to redistribute premiums, in the same manner as a govt option would have to.

I'm not sure I agree with the cash giveaway school of thought. I look at the difference in amounts paid to hospitals between what is paid by an individual and what is paid by the insurance company and conclude that insurance companies are motivated to hold down cost of treatment. The difference here is that hospitals don't have to contract with any insurance company. They may or may not have to agree to deal with the government.

See! Even I can agree with your opinion on issues related to health care. A public option is necessary to bring competition into the mix.
Without competition, private insurance companies control the market and how they control cost by denial of services.

Capitalism requires competition to work.

It does indeed. However creating subsidized government monopolies is not a good way to get competition. Free markets do that.

george, We're not suggesting a one-option government system, but one where consumers have a choice between public and private. There are several countries that already uses this system, and it works out very well.

Government subsidies would be available based on income, so they can choose between the public or private option.

maporsche, I agree with George, the free market is what provides free and open competition, not government. A good analogy is our current education system, which is woefully expensive and inadequate in my opinion, but if you want your kid to go to a private school, you not only have to pay for that but you also continue to pay taxes to support a failed "public option." I think that would be where we are headed with the public option in health care. Government does not like competition, it instead likes a monopoly. Anyone that believes Obama simply wants to see competition really is very very naive, I think. I think Obama and other supporters have by design decided to use buzzwords like competition, choice, and other terms that make it sound more appealing, but that is not at all what the ultimate goal is at all.

Insurance companies are all competing now. Imagine auto or homeowners insurance where the government would suddenly be competing, imagine the debacle that would cause in those industries. They would say, keep your insurance if you like it, but how long would that last when people soon realized that they were paying for their auto or homeowners insurance, but were also paying taxes out the wazoo to support government run auto and homeowners insurance for half the rest of the country?

okie, When you continue to believe in extremes like there will only be a public option is where your brain doesn't work too well; the legislation now being planned by congress and Obama will have both a private and public option.

BTW, it's not socialism.

Uninsured More Likely to Die, Study Finds

WASHINGTON " People without health insurance are 40 percent more likely to die than those with private insurance, according to a new study whose authors say the finding underscores the need to expand coverage to the 46 million who lack it.

According to the report, published today in the Journal of Public Health, lack of health insurance was a factor in the death of as many as 45,000 people in 2005.

Health Insurance and Mortality in US Adults

Conclusions

Lack of health insurance is associated with
as many as 44789 deaths per year in the
United States, more than those caused by
kidney disease (n=42868).41 The increased
risk of death attributable to uninsurance
suggests that alternative measures of access
to medical care for the uninsured, such as
community health centers, do not provide the
protection of private health insurance. Despite
widespread acknowledgment that
enacting universal coverage would be life
saving, doing so remains politically thorny.
Now that health reform is again on the
political agenda, health professionals have
the opportunity to advocate universal coverage.

More lies from the right.


Latest RNC Tax Attack Web Ad Gets It Wrong

As the health care discussion moves forward, there have been varying claims made by the President, political parties and U.S. Chamber of Commerce just to name a few. Factcheck.org can be used to separate fact from fiction.

According its website, Factcheck is a nonpartisan, nonprofit "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics.

The 7 Falsehoods About Health Care, Obama’s Health Care speech and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s Campaign about Taxing Businesses and Consumers are just a few of the recent articles that are helpful in sorting out the health care rhetoric and facts.

Says Factcheck: “We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding. Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.”

Here is an example of FactCheck review of the latest RNC Tax Attack Web ads:

The Republican National Committee claims in a new Web ad that Democratic health care plans propose taxes on "charities and small businesses, a doctor’s tax. Taxes on your health insurance. Even a tax on medical supplies."
It’s perfectly true, as the ad says, that "hundreds of billions" in taxes are being proposed " spread over 10 years. But the ad exaggerates and misleads in a number of ways:

· It makes a downright false claim that ordinary wheelchairs would be among "medical supplies" subject to a proposed tax on manufacturers and importers. That’s not true: Wheelchairs and roughly half of all other medical devices would be exempt. (When we pointed this out, an RNC official said the ad would be modified, however.)

· It features a proposed tax on medical laboratory services that has already been dropped.

· The alleged tax on "charities" is actually a proposed limit on federal income tax deductions for charitable gifts by individual taxpayers in the highest brackets, not a tax levied directly on the charities themselves.

· Similarly, the "small business" tax also refers to a proposed tax increase on individuals making more than $280,000 a year ($350,000 for families), only some of whom own small businesses. The vast majority of small-business owners don’t bring in enough to be affected.

The ad claims "your health insurance costs will skyrocket," but independent experts disagree. The head of the Congressional Budget Office says the biggest tax proposed in the Senate Finance Committee plan, for example, would reduce health care spending, because it cuts a tax incentive that encourages spending.

Note: This is a summary only. The full article with analysis, images and citations may be viewed at: www.factcheck.org

newsofthenorth.net

As with most lies spread by the conservatives about the reform on health care, the biggest problem is that those lies are believed as facts by too many Americans - and we all know about the birthers, death panels, and government take over of health care. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that those lies takes on a life of their own never to be corrected by facts.

Our country is in big doodle.

Advocate, surely you realize Factcheck is in the tank for Obama, so it is not a good place to check your facts.

Horse ****. You have no proof of this, you just don't like that they call out lies coming from your side. Believe me, I've been plenty angry with Factcheck before.

As for the 'free market' idea that you and O'b are putting forth,

Surely you realize that the Health care market is not a free market. And you don't have much ability as a consumer to act like it is. So this whole presumption that the 'free market' provides choice, is bullshit. Our real-life experience has been the opposite of what you theorize should happen.

Cycloptichorn

What more proof does anyone need than to know its run by the Annenberg Foundation, a bunch of leftists? And simply open the home page of Factcheck and you are met with a multitude of pro Obama propaganda.

It is partial free market at the current time at least, last I checked. We could use alot more to improve the system.

You claim free market does not provide choice? Do I even have time to debate idiots, cyclops, get serious.

I wonder if cyclops will also deny factcheck is run by the Annenberg Foundation? Will he deny the sun came up this morning?

okie, where do YOU check YOUR facts? so as not to be biased.

or don't you care about bias as long as the message agrees with you?

Foxfyre's morning email forwards?

T
K
O

I guess you could call it that, though that's really just trying to protect your idea, and not accurately representing the health care market. When the consumers have no clue what the costs are and cannot make choices based on cost, it isn't a free market. At all.



You'll note that I didn't say that free markets don't provide choice, I said that we don't have a free market in health care. Please try and stick with my actual words, quote me if you have to do so in order to do that.



Why would I deny that? Other than your accusations that they are in the tank for Obama, there's no evidence that this is true or that anyone shouldn't trust them. I just went to their home page, and I'm wondering - what is the piece of pro-Obama propoganda you were referring to?

Cycloptichorn

Well, I live in a "soft dictatorship" as you called it.

But I can choose between 200 different insurance companies within the mandatory health insurance system and 50 within the private sector.
All offering various programs and combinations ... But, of course, it's all socialised.

One important factor, Rockhead, the personalities and beliefs of politicians and parties come into play big time. The first thing to remember about Obama is to understand his statements are always cloaked to try to get people to think what is favorable, not what he actually wants. Obama uses terms like choice and free market, but he is simply not a free market guy at all, he does not believe in profits, etc. So any issue that claims Republicans are lying about some of this stuff, you need to know what the end game is.

If you think I don't trust him, you guessed right.