I think this graph shows that healthcare costs are increasing dramatically more than gas prices. Healthcare is rising as a percentage of GNP and GNP is rising as well, so it's a bigger percentage of a growing base.
No doubt it's rising (I'm not sure on the 2025 number though; really curious how they're coming up with that number).
But the pace it's rising doesn't seem TOO out of line when compared to other things.
I do think gas has had a much larger increase though.
I graduated high school in 1998, and I remember buying gas for $0.80/gallon. I just got done paying 350% more than that.
Paying only 100% more for my healthcare seems like a comparative bargain.
0 Replies
cicerone imposter
1
Reply
Sat 19 Sep, 2009 03:36 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche, As somebody said, you need to look at those percentage of GDP as our GDP was growing. Look at the GDP growth on the following graph; it was mainly supported by the real estate bubble where spending was supported from the increase in mortgage and zero savings. Most people don't even have a positive equity in their biggest investment, their homes, but health insurance premiums continues to increase beyond the inflation rate, pay increases, or GDP growth.
0 Replies
Debra Law
1
Reply
Sat 19 Sep, 2009 03:40 pm
@Debra Law,
okie wrote:
. . . liberals view us all as a whole, a community or commune. This means they believe in socialism or even communism. . . . it does not bother them to take from others to give it to themselves or others. Under their belief, it is rightfully theirs, but under the Judeo-Christian philosophy, that is essentially stealing. . . .
I hereby request that okie stop stealing from the community. He is a socialist, communist, marxist, nazi thug who takes from others for the benefit of himself and others. I demand that he execute the following pledge:
Quote:
I, ________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:
I will complain about the destruction of 1st Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 1st Amendment Rights.
I will complain about the destruction of my 2nd Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights by legally but brazenly brandishing unconcealed firearms in public.
I will foreswear the time-honored principles of fairness, decency, and respect by screaming unintelligible platitudes regarding tyranny, Nazi-ism, and socialism at public town halls. Also.
I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:
•Social Security
•Medicare/Medicaid
•State Children’s Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)
•Police, Fire, and Emergency Services
•US Postal Service
•Roads and Highways
•Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)
•The US Railway System
•Public Subways and Metro Systems
•Public Bus and Lightrail Systems
•Rest Areas on Highways
•Sidewalks
•All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009 federal senate appropriations)
•Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)
•Public and State Universities and Colleges
•Public Primary and Secondary Schools
•Sesame Street
•Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children
•Public Museums
•Libraries
•Public Parks and Beaches
•State and National Parks
•Public Zoos
•Unemployment Insurance
•Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services
•Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, State or Federal Government (pretty much all of them)
•Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)
•Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions)
•Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD's ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking
•Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies
•Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies
If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care
I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C.
I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist locations, including but not limited to:
•Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History
•The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments
•The government-operated Statue of Liberty
•The Grand Canyon
•The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials
•The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery
•All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DC
I will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and government-provided healthcare.
I will oppose and condemn the government-funded and therefore socialist military of the United States of America.
I will boycott the products of socialist defense contractors such as GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell, and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist army.
I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees.
Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks.
Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I die.
SWORN ON A BIBLE AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF __________ IN THE YEAR ___.
_____________ _________________________
Signed Printed Name/Town and State
If okie does not execute the foregoing pledge and disavow his socialist, communist, marxist, and nazi thug conduct, we must all place him on ignore!
Facts on the Cost of Health Insurance and Health Care
Health care spending continues to rise at a rapid rate forcing businesses to cut back on health insurance coverage and forcing many families to cut back on basic necessities such as food and electricity and, in some cases, shelters and homes.
Experts agree that our health care system is riddled with inefficiencies, excessive administrative expenses, inflated prices, poor management and inappropriate care, waste and fraud. These problems increase the cost of medical care associated with government health programs like Medicare and Medicaid, and health insurance for employers and workers and affect the security of families.
I'm not trying to say that the rising cost of healthcare isn't a problem. But just throwing an alternative out there that the problem might be that the median wage hasn't increased much in the last 10 years.
Calm yourself. Your hyperindignation makes you look foolish.
The probability of getting health care legislation with a public option through the Congress this fall - or ever - looks very small right now.
Cyclo also assereted that opposition to the health care bill would doom the Republicans with the electorate for a long time. That one doesn't look too good right now either.
Indignation, not so much, but certainly amusement at someone declaring the current state of HCR as being terminal. Terminal in the face of public polling. Terminal in the face of the composition of congress.
It strategically serves you to keep saying that things look bad though. Some people only get their information via rumors (lots of them in the GOP). Why you attempt this strategy HERE though, I can't quite understand.
T
K
O
0 Replies
cicerone imposter
1
Reply
Sat 19 Sep, 2009 04:48 pm
@maporsche,
I guess you haven't been reading about all my complaints against the current legislation being worked on my congress that has to do with consumer costs (taxpayer costs; where is the money going to come from) and how they expect to save costs. What's the net cost going to be and for how long?
I've been reading them. And you're right, Obamacare does not do enough to address costs.
0 Replies
mysteryman
1
Reply
Sat 19 Sep, 2009 05:03 pm
Quote:
That study that claims 45,000 Americans die without insurance? Uhuh: "the authors have no idea whether subjects were insured or uninsured, what kind of medical care they received, or even cause of death
Headline from fark.com
Apparently, the study that makes the claim was done by a "doctor" that is a supporter of a single payer plan, and one that supports Obama.
Interesting how nobody was told that at the time.
Quote:
"They are trying to create these factoids that they can beat opponents over the head with," Mr. Milloy said. "They interviewed 9,000 people between 1988 and 1994 and asked, 'Do you have health insurance?' and if you die at some point in the future, they assume your death was caused by the fact you didn’t have insurance during that time you were interviewed."
"That kind of stuff is classic junk science," Mr. Milloy added.
John C. Goodman, president of the National Center for Policy Analysis, agreed that the study was flawed. “The subjects were interviewed only once and the study tries to link their insurance status at that time to mortality a decade later. Yet over the period, the authors have no idea whether subjects were insured or uninsured, what kind of medical care they received, or even cause of death,” he said in a statement.
Quote:
NPCA noted that a “more careful study” completed by the Congressional Budget Office found that low-income people without insurance had a 3 percent higher chance of death, but found no difference among higher income earners.
One of the study’s co-authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, is a strong proponent of a single-payer system. In addition to working as associate professor of medicine at Harvard University, Dr. Himmelstein is also founder and spokesman for Physicians for a National Health Program.
He testified before Congress earlier this year in favor of a single-payer system, saying, "Our 16,000 physician members support nonprofit, single-payer national health insurance because of overwhelming evidence that lesser reforms will fail." His health care advocacy work was not disclosed in a press release for this study.
So here we have a flawed, biased study being used as a reason to support healthcare reform.
Why doesnt that surprise me.
Apparently, the study that makes the claim was done by a "doctor" that is a supporter of a single payer plan, and one that supports Obama.
Interesting how nobody was told that at the time.
According to the study, it was done by several doctores, namely Drs. Andrew Wilper, Kareb E. Lasser, Danny McCormick, David H. Bor and David U. Himmelstein.
Do you have any sources which doubts their academic degrees?
Any source which supports that they are supporters of the one or other plan?
One of the study’s co-authors, Dr. David Himmelstein, is a strong proponent of a single-payer system. In addition to working as associate professor of medicine at Harvard University, Dr. Himmelstein is also founder and spokesman for Physicians for a National Health Program.
He testified before Congress earlier this year in favor of a single-payer system, saying, "Our 16,000 physician members support nonprofit, single-payer national health insurance because of overwhelming evidence that lesser reforms will fail." His health care advocacy work was not disclosed in a press release for this study.
Okay, so you wrongly claimed that "the study was made by a 'doctor' ".
Well, Himmelstein is known since years as the founder of PNHP, his expertises are indeed health reform, universal care and preventive medicine.
0 Replies
revel
1
Reply
Sun 20 Sep, 2009 11:28 am
@mysteryman,
If indeed the president of the National Center for Policy Analysis is correct and they only interviewed the subjects once and then didn't follow up to see if the subjects ever got insured in the years before their death, then it is a flawed study.
However, it is not surprising that higher income people without insurance have no difference in death rates than those with insurance. They can afford to go to a doctor on a regular basis and get preventive care rather than going to the emergency room like people with low income have to do.
0 Replies
revel
1
Reply
Sun 20 Sep, 2009 11:30 am
@Debra Law,
0 Replies
okie
1
Reply
Sun 20 Sep, 2009 06:55 pm
This is good!
Obama, Stephanopoulos Spar Over Definition of 'Tax'
In an interview airing Sunday, ABC News' George Stephanopoulos pressed the president on his plan to require people to purchase health insurance.
President Obama and ABC News' George Stephanopoulos got in a testy sparring match Sunday over whether the president's health care plan includes a tax increase, leading the host to look up the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of taxes.
In the interview airing Sunday, Stephanopoulos pressed the president on his plan to require people to purchase health insurance.
"Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don't. How is that not a tax?" the host asked.
Obama responded: " No, but -- but, George, you -- you can't just make up that language and decide that that's called a tax increase."
Stephanopoulos then offered the dictionary definition.
"I don't think I'm making it up. Merriam-Webster's dictionary: 'Tax, a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes,'" he said.
Visibly taken aback, Obama rejected the notion it was a tax increase and said pulling the dictionary out was a sign the host was "stretching" a little.
"No. That -- that's not true, George. The -- for us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase," Obama said.
Notice Obama's Freudian slip when he said ".....this campaign..."
