IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

That is a flippant comment to make, rockhead, for the apparent reason of diminishing the importance of the issue that I talk about here.

. . . liberals view us all as a whole, a community or commune. This means they believe in socialism or even communism. . . . it does not bother them to take from others to give it to themselves or others. Under their belief, it is rightfully theirs, but under the Judeo-Christian philosophy, that is essentially stealing. . . .

Apparently, the problem for middle-class and lower-middle-class Americans is not that their taxpayer dollars are going to prop up billionaires, oligarchs and their corrupt industries. It's that America's impoverished -- a group that is growing rapidly -- is getting too much, has too much power and too little accountability.

* * *

If one were to watch Fox News or listen to Rush Limbaugh -- as millions do -- one would believe that the burden of the ordinary American taxpayer, and the unfair plight of America's rich, is that their money is being stolen by the poorest and most powerless sectors of the society. An organization whose constituencies are often-unregistered inner-city minorities, the homeless and the dispossesed is depicted as though it's Goldman Sachs, Blackwater, and Haillburton combined, as though Washington officials are in thrall to those living in poverty rather than those who fund their campaigns. It's not the nice men in the suits doing the stealing but the very people, often minorities or illegal immigrants, with no political or financial power who nonetheless somehow dominate the government and get everything for themselves. The poorer and weaker one is, the more one is demonized in right-wing mythology as all-powerful receipients of ill-gotten gains; conversely, the stronger and more powerful one is, the more one is depicted as an oppressed and put-upon victim.

It's such an obvious falsehood -- so counter-intuitive and irrational -- yet it resonates due to powerful cultural manipulations. Most of all, what's so pernicious about all of this is that the same interests who are stealing, pillaging and wallowing in corruption are scapegoating the poorest and most vulnerable in order to ensure that the victims of their behavior are furious with everyone except for them.

I am going to post this on the dictator thread as well, with a closing paragraph on Hitler and how this relates to him.

Right on, you understand my point in part, but the important and salient point here is that Judeo Christian philosophy I believe endorses being our brothers keeper, but this is important, as an individual, not as a nation. In fact, that is why Judas was offended, he thought the ointment should have been used to help the poor.

I don't think so. How do you distinguish between "good" government intervention and "bad' in your theoretical constructs? Distinguishing on a practical basis between what works and what doesn't is ususlly possible in the extremes, but always arguable in the middle. Adding the complexity of what is or isn't a justifiable restriction of individual liberty makes for very intractable problems - and I don't see enough in your doctrines - as you have expressed them here - to constitute a complete guide.

In particular I believe you wrongfully attempt to oversimplify these issues by simply sweeping away key variables. A good example is the highly simplistic left-right taxonomy on which you attempt (unsuccessfully) to impale the whole of political and economic history in the "ruthless dictators" thread. This leads you to numerous contradictions, which I won't repeat, but which several others (and myself) have repeatedly attempted to point out. Your usual reaction is to either evade the point entirely or simply return to the recitation of your points. This is neither respectful of your interlocutors nor rational.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I predict that Obama will sign a bill including a public option, this Fall.

Cycloptichorn

I want to memorialize this prediction for future reference. Credulity in the face of contrary facts is a hallmark of the true believer .... or fanatic, depending on your point of view.

I repeat alot of the points because they seem so simple, yet people never acknowledge them or are able to refute them fairly. Example, Hitler's philosophy was "common good." That is not a right or conservative belief. I believe in individual good, individual rights, individual liberty. This is a very basic but simple concept that is very very true. And it defines the basic difference between left and right. And it also explains why Hitler had no compunction over trampling on people, even killing them by the millions, he didn't care about individuals, not at all. It was all about the whole, the nation, and the power of the State to bring about social justice for all. Never mind that social justice meant killing a few people, just like the social justice of Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, and all the rest of them.

Never mind that social justice meant killing a few people, just like the social justice of Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, and all the rest of them.

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I predict that Obama will sign a bill including a public option, this Fall.

Cycloptichorn

I want to memorialize this prediction for future reference. Credulity in the face of contrary facts is a hallmark of the true believer .... or fanatic, depending on your point of view.

Just want to refresh this prediction of Cyclo's for future reference.

Calm yourself. Your hyperindignation makes you look foolish.

The probability of getting health care legislation with a public option through the Congress this fall - or ever - looks very small right now.

They seem to me to be trying to use the debate as an excuse to portray themselves as caring, responsible and compassionate citizens without the risk of paying the price for it.

If they stay on the pony and don't do anything, there's going to be a lynching! Health insurance premiums is gonna double in the next ten years.