65
   

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 05:38 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Interesting, but I don't think it could pass. Too many people already bear great costs in sending their children to private schools just to escape a public school system that is thoroughly politicized; too dominated by self-serving teacher's unions; and generally an unwholsome environment. I doubt they would find your arguments persuasive.

Yes, I'm sure you are right. But having two children in public schools, I object to the "generally unwholesome environment" assessment. They are my children so of course I, like any parent, would educate them to the absolute limit of my means. Unfortunately for them that "means" public school. I'm hoping to make it up to them in college.

Quote:
The stunning lack of anything in either your outline of the Administration's plan to increase the supply of medical practicioners makes it pretty clear that not much serious thought has gone into these proposals apart from the forced redistribution of benefits and services under the usually incompetent management of government bureaucracies.

I wasn't aware that I was outlining the Administration's plan and don't remember reading about, much less discussing a plan to increase the supply of medical practitioners. At the moment, I favor HR 676 as the simplest solution, though roger or the CBO may yet talk me out of it.
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 06:39 am
All schools are generally unwholesome and college more so even if they are affluent colleges. Kids will be kids even in the most strict environments.

(my kids are now 26 and 23 so I have already went through the whole thing and now going through it again (almost) with my granddaughter and another on the way)

Also some of those private schools I would not have sent my kids to even if I could as they had their own political or religious agendas without much oversight to keep them in check.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 10:36 am
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck, Our children are now in their forties, and also three years apart in age. They both attended public schools; our older son graduated summa cum laude for his undergraduate degree and honors for his masters, and our younger son graduated cum laude for his undergraduate degree.

My wife graduated with honors from high school, nursing school, and college. I barely graduated from high school, and it took me six years to earn my BS degree with a major in Accounting.

I believe there are both good and bad schools in both parochial and public schools. What matters is what the student takes away from their education; not which college they graduate from. Performance is what counts after one begins to work; not which school they earned their degree.

okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 01:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
I barely graduated from high school, and it took me six years to earn my BS degree with a major in Accounting.

That tells me alot. Thanks for the info, ci.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 01:21 pm
@okie,
you really are a snide piece of ****
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:30 am
Everyone is talking about Medicare and how good it is.
Well, here is an example of how much "better" medicare is then private insurance...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/09/02/medicare.wheelchairs/index.html

Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Power-driven wheelchairs are costing Medicare and its beneficiaries nearly four times what suppliers pay for them, and competitive bidding could have reduced those costs, according to an inspector general's report released Wednesday.


A standard power wheelchair costs the federal health insurance program for seniors an average of $4,018 to lease, compared with $1,048 for suppliers to buy, the Department of Health and Human Services' internal watchdog reported.


So apparently, Medicare has no bid contracts (I thought those were BAD), and that ends up costing the US Taxpayer 4 times what the chairs should cost.
And still people hold Medicare up as an example of how well govt can run things.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:35 am
There ARE "death panels" under one govts healthcare system.
And its a system that some people say we should use as a model for our own healthcare system.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html

Quote:
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to death.

Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.

As a result the scheme is causing a “national crisis” in patient care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke’s cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.


And this is what people want US healthcare to be like?
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:45 am
@mysteryman,
regardless of how it's paid for, maybe it's time folks took a more pragmatic look at how much better it might be to let granny go as opposed to let her go

mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:47 am
@djjd62,
Quote:
regardless of how it's paid for, maybe it's time folks took a more pragmatic look at how much better it might be to let granny go as opposed to let her go


?????

That makes no sense.
You might want to reread that statement and rewrite it.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 06:38 am
@mysteryman,
From your article:
Quote:
Administration officials want to require competitive bids for items such as wheelchairs. But the American Association for Homecare, which represents many in the durable equipment industry, said the bidding program would reduce patient choice, limit access to home medical care and drive up Medicare costs by requiring more hospital stays.

Sounds familiar...
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 06:40 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

And this is what people want US healthcare to be like?

Nothing remotely similar to the British system is even on the table. Why does this seem relevant to you?
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 08:15 am
@mysteryman,
oof, early morning editing, not good

it should read

regardless of how it's paid for, maybe it's time folks took a more pragmatic look at how much better it might be to let granny go as opposed to keeping her alive if the outcome is a forgone conclusion
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:19 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

There ARE "death panels" under one govts healthcare system.
And its a system that some people say we should use as a model for our own healthcare system.



A short look at the various health insurance systems across Europe might astonish you, mysteryman: the UK is here just average.

It seems that palliative medicine isn't done in the UK as its elsewhere ("In 2007-08 16.5 per cent of deaths in Britain came about after continuous deep sedation, according to researchers at the Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry, twice as many as in Belgium and the Netherlands.")


So instead of looking at this example here - why didn't take the Dutch or that from Belgium? (Or France, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Luxembourg ...)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 09:57 am
@djjd62,
Often times, it's not granny who wants to stay alive, but her family members who insist they keep granny alive, and making demands on the doctor.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 10:25 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
And still people hold Medicare up as an example of how well govt can run things.


perhaps you could find out how much private insurers pay to rent/lease those same wheelchairs

(interesting that the article itself doesn't comment on it)
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 11:57 am
@cicerone imposter,
i'd be willing to say 99.9% of the time, i've spent a good bit of time in hospitals with folks who were dying (grandfather, 2 grandmothers and a fother, all went quickly with no heroic measures or prolonged agonies) to have witnessed the way other people try to hold on to someone who should be allowed to go
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 12:05 pm
@djjd62,
I have no personal observation on this issue, but get my impressions from past readings and movies, so you're probably more right than the most of us.

0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:26 pm
I guess congress doesnt think that health care reform is that important, or at least 13% of them dont.

That 13% was visiting Israel on a "fact finding mission" sponsored by AIPAC.

http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2009/09/02/the-best-congress-aipac-can-buy/

Quote:
Many Americans who thought that the health care debate was important must have wondered where their congressmen were in early August during the first two weeks of the House of Representatives recess. It turns out they were not hosting town hall meetings or listening to constituents because many of them were in Israel together with their spouses on a trip paid for by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Fully 13% of the entire US House of Representatives, 56 members, traveled to Israel in the largest AIPAC-sponsored fact-finding visit by American politicians ever conducted. And the leaders of the two congressional groups, 25 Republicans for a week starting on August 2nd followed by 31 Democrats beginning on August 13th, were drawn from the top ranks of their respective parties. House Minority whip Eric Cantor headed the Republican group and House Majority leader Steny Hoyer led the Democrats.

FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 05:30 pm
@mysteryman,
Yep. So in a couple of months when congressmen feel stirred by their respective consciences to speak up against the president's approach to Israel/Palestinian relations, you'll see some familiar names.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2009 06:02 pm
@FreeDuck,
That sure made my day, but I'm not going to even try till it's out of committee so we can see what it really is. By that time, of course, it may be too late for input.
0 Replies
 
 

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