65
   

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
Yankee
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 10:55 am
@cicerone imposter,
I do not think I am. I attached is the link to the House plan. Go to page 425 and then answer back.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 10:59 am
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

I do not think I am. I attached is the link to the House plan. Go to page 425 and then answer back.


Here's the text. Why don't you explain to us what it means, that has you so up in arms?

Quote:
15 SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
16 (a) MEDICARE."
17 (1) IN GENERAL."Section 1861 of the Social
18 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended"
19 (A) in subsection (s)(2)"
20 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
21 subparagraph (DD);
22 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
23 subparagraph (EE); and
24 (iii) by adding at the end the fol25
lowing new subparagraph:
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425
1 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
2 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
3 (B) by adding at the end the following new
4 subsection:
5 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
6 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
7 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con8
sultation between the individual and a practitioner de9
scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
10 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has
11 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
12 consultation shall include the following:
13 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad14
vance care planning, including key questions and
15 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo16
ple to talk to.
17 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad18
vance directives, including living wills and durable
19 powers of attorney, and their uses.
20 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
21 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
22 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
23 of national and State-specific resources to assist con24
sumers and their families with advance care plan25
ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad-
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1 vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
2 service organizations (including those funded
3 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
4 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
5 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail6
able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene7
fits for such services and supports that are available
8 under this title.
9 ‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of
10 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar
11 orders, which shall include"
12 ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of
13 such an order is beneficial to the individual and
14 the individual’s family and the reasons why
15 such an order should be updated periodically as
16 the health of the individual changes;
17 ‘‘(II) the information needed for an indi18
vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci19
sions regarding the completion of such an
20 order; and
21 ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that
22 an individual may use to determine the require23
ments of the State in which such individual re24
sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi25
vidual will be carried out if the individual is un-
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427
1 able to communicate those wishes, including re2
quirements regarding the designation of a sur3
rogate decisionmaker (also known as a health
4 care proxy).
5 ‘‘(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement
6 for explanations under clause (i) to consultations
7 furnished in a State"
8 ‘‘(I) in which all legal barriers have been
9 addressed for enabling orders for life sustaining
10 treatment to constitute a set of medical orders
11 respected across all care settings; and
12 ‘‘(II) that has in effect a program for or13
ders for life sustaining treatment described in
14 clause (iii).
15 ‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining
16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a
17 program that"
18 ‘‘(I) ensures such orders are standardized
19 and uniquely identifiable throughout the State;
20 ‘‘(II) distributes or makes accessible such
21 orders to physicians and other health profes22
sionals that (acting within the scope of the pro23
fessional’s authority under State law) may sign
24 orders for life sustaining treatment;
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1 ‘‘(III) provides training for health care
2 professionals across the continuum of care
3 about the goals and use of orders for life sus4
taining treatment; and
5 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake6
holders includes representatives from emergency
7 medical services, emergency department physi8
cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9
tion, state medical association, state surveyors,
10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11
partment of health, state hospital association,
12 home health association, state bar association,
13 and state hospice association.
14 ‘‘(2) A practitioner described in this paragraph is"
15 ‘‘(A) a physician (as defined in subsection
16 (r)(1)); and
17 ‘‘(B) a nurse practitioner or physician’s assist18
ant who has the authority under State law to sign
19 orders for life sustaining treatments.
20 ‘‘(3)(A) An initial preventive physical examination
21 under subsection (WW), including any related discussion
22 during such examination, shall not be considered an ad23
vance care planning consultation for purposes of applying
24 the 5-year limitation under paragraph (1).
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429
1 ‘‘(B) An advance care planning consultation with re2
spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently
3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant
4 change in the health condition of the individual, including
5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a
6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening
7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a
8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or
9 a hospice program.
10 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11
clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining
12 treatment or a similar order.
13 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order
14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect
15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to
16 the treatment of that individual that"
17 ‘‘(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as de18
fined in subsection (r)(1)) or another health care
19 professional (as specified by the Secretary and who
20 is acting within the scope of the professional’s au21
thority under State law in signing such an order, in22
cluding a nurse practitioner or physician assistant)
23 and is in a form that permits it to stay with the in24
dividual and be followed by health care professionals
25 and providers across the continuum of care;
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1 ‘‘(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s
2 preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, in3
cluding an indication of the treatment and care de4
sired by the individual;
5 ‘‘(iii) is uniquely identifiable and standardized
6 within a given locality, region, or State (as identified
7 by the Secretary); and
8 ‘‘(iv) may incorporate any advance directive (as
9 defined in section 1866(f)(3)) if executed by the in10
dividual.
11 ‘‘(B) The level of treatment indicated under subpara12
graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat13
ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified
14 interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may in15
clude indications respecting, among other items"
16 ‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the
17 patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac
18 or pulmonary problems;
19 ‘‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer
20 to a hospital or remaining at the current care set21
ting;
22 ‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and
23 ‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutri24
tion and hydration.’’.
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1 (2) PAYMENT."Section 1848(j)(3) of such Act
2 (42 U.S.C. 1395w-4(j)(3)) is amended by inserting
3 ‘‘(2)(FF),’’ after ‘‘(2)(EE),’’.
4 (3) FREQUENCY LIMITATION."Section 1862(a)
5 of such Act (42 U.S.C. 1395y(a)) is amended"
6 (A) in paragraph (1)"
7 (i) in subparagraph (N), by striking
8 ‘‘and’’ at the end;
9 (ii) in subparagraph (O) by striking
10 the semicolon at the end and inserting ‘‘,
11 and’’; and
12 (iii) by adding at the end the fol13
lowing new subparagraph:
14 ‘‘(P) in the case of advance care planning
15 consultations (as defined in section
16 1861(hhh)(1)), which are performed more fre17
quently than is covered under such section;’’;
18 and
19 (B) in paragraph (7), by striking ‘‘or (K)’’
20 and inserting ‘‘(K), or (P)’’.
21 (4) EFFECTIVE DATE."The amendments made
22 by this subsection shall apply to consultations fur23
nished on or after January 1, 2011.
24 (b) EXPANSION OF PHYSICIAN QUALITY REPORTING
25 INITIATIVE FOR END OF LIFE CARE."
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1 (1) PHYSICIAN’S QUALITY REPORTING INITIA2
TIVE."Section 1848(k)(2) of the Social Security Act
3 (42 U.S.C. 1395w"4(k)(2)) is amended by adding at
4 the end the following new paragraphs:
5 ‘‘(3) PHYSICIAN’S QUALITY REPORTING INITIA6
TIVE."
7 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL."For purposes of re8
porting data on quality measures for covered
9 professional services furnished during 2011 and
10 any subsequent year, to the extent that meas11
ures are available, the Secretary shall include
12 quality measures on end of life care and ad13
vanced care planning that have been adopted or
14 endorsed by a consensus-based organization, if
15 appropriate. Such measures shall measure both
16 the creation of and adherence to orders for life17
sustaining treatment.
18 ‘‘(B) PROPOSED SET OF MEASURES." The
19 Secretary shall publish in the Federal Register
20 proposed quality measures on end of life care
21 and advanced care planning that the Secretary
22 determines are described in subparagraph (A)
23 and would be appropriate for eligible profes24
sionals to use to submit data to the Secretary.
25 The Secretary shall provide for a period of pub-
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1 lic comment on such set of measures before fi2
nalizing such proposed measures.’’.


Cycloptichorn
Yankee
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 11:10 am
@Cycloptichorn,
No.

The question stands.

Care to answer it or will you continue your Smart Ass campaign?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 11:13 am
@Yankee,
Yankee, Both my wife and I have chosen to have living wills, and we also revised our living trust two years ago. These are very important considerations for older folks who are unaware of the advantages of having such things. Most people are ignorant, and do not believe in living wills or living trusts, because of ignorance of how much it helps our loved ones to know our directives about our health care and our assets after we are gone.

Those are very valuable services that the government is trying to provide all seniors. We paid good money to have a living trust, because it will protect our assets for our children.

You can use all the scare tactics of the conservatives you want; I disagree vehemently the fear-mongering of the republicans that are all lies and innuendos to scare seniors like myself.

BTW, you failed to answer Cyclo's question; typical conservative no response to a very simple question/issue that you know nothing about.
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 11:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
I think asking why this is in the plan is not a "scare tactic" that you want to pretend it to be.

You really did not answer the question as to why is it necessary for the Govt to force this "service" onto Seniors.

A living trust does not protect assets for your children. All it really does is allow your estate to bypass probate. So if your think you are protecting your assets by a living trust, you may not be getting what you paid for.

I am sure you paid a fair price for this legal service. Will the Govts Health Care plan pay for such service? I did not see that.

Is it a good idea to have one? Maybe, but if I have no assets, what good will a living trust do? NOTHING.

A Health Care Proxy, again, many times are not followed by practitioners for liability reasons.

Asking questions of HIS HIGH HOLINESS is not a scare tactic.
0 Replies
 
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 11:21 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
BTW, you failed to answer Cyclo's question; typical conservative no response to a very simple question/issue that you know nothing about.


**** Cyclo, that arrogant fool!!!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 11:23 am
@Yankee,
Yeah, who's the ignorant one here that makes a claim and then doesn't answer a simple question. You don't even understand the concept of ignorant.
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 11:26 am
@cicerone imposter,
I posed the question to you asshole. You did not answer it. So who if the ******* fool?

You liberals are the biggest bunch of losers I have ever witnessed.

Ignore the question by answering it with a question then blame the questioner?

You and Cyclo must have been separated at birth and put in the stupid line.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 11:54 am
@Yankee,
In the first place, your contention that the government is forcing this on seniors is a lie. It's a service that the government will offer when "requested."

Get your head out of your arse, and read the section Cyclo posted. There's nothing that says "mandatory" or "required" any place in that section of the plan.

It's difficult having a discussion with anyone who doesn't understand the English language - like you!
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It does not say "WHEN REQUESTED anywhere.

Correct it does not say mandatory or required anywhere either.

So again, why is it there?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:04 pm
@Yankee,
It's there for a very simple reason, and I've already explained those. Get your head out of your arse; it's tiresome having to repeat something already explained.

Again, if it passes probate, it saves on having to pay taxes on the assets.
https://www.legalzoom.com/legal-articles/livingtrust-does.html

DUH!
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
But it does not PROTECT your assets as you suggested it did.

Again, financial planning is not the Govts responsibility.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:16 pm
@Yankee,
How does it not protect the assets, if it's protected from estate taxes?

Estate Tax Rates:
Quote:
What is the current estate tax rate and limits?

By Joshua Kennon, About.com

Question: What is the current estate tax rate and limits?

The estate tax, or inheritance tax as it is sometimes known, has long been regarded by its critics as an onerous example of socialistic wealth redistribution. Supporters argue that it prevents families from amassing fortunes and creating an American aristocracy like those found in the older European countries. Regardless of your viewpoint on the estate tax, you will have to deal with it if you are fortune enough to have amassed wealth. So, what are the current estate tax rate and limits?

Answer: The answer is complicated. Prior to the estate tax reduction, estates were taxed at rates beginning at 37 percent and going as high as 55 percent. Generally, the estate tax only applied to assets exceeding $1 million.

Included in President Bush's tax cuts, however, was a provision to phase out the estate tax rate over the next few years. For families with large real estate holdings such as farms that have been held for generations or small businesses, this stroke of good luck will ensure that assets are passed onto posterity without Uncle Sam taking a majority of the bounty. This would be accomplished in two ways: 1.) by raising the amount exempt from the estate tax rate, and 2.) lowering the estate tax rate itself.

According to the IRS literature, an estate tax filing need only be made if the value of an estate exceeds the following amounts:

2005: First $1,500,000 in assets
2006-2008: First $2,000,000 in assets
2009: First $3,500,000 in assets


In addition, the maximum estate tax rate applied to the amounts in excess of these figures are as follows:

2005: 47 percent
2006: 46 percent
2007- 2009: 45 percent


In 2010, the estate tax rate drops to zero percent; if you die in that year, your heirs would not pay taxes, even if you passed on $20 billion!

One caveat: Congress ensured that the law sunsets in 2011. That is, on January 1st, 2011, the estate tax rate will return to its pre-Bush levels. Practically speaking, this means the difference between dying on December 31, 2010 and January 1, 2011 can mean 55 percent of your estate if you are person of means!



Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
A LIVING TRUST does not protect assets from Estate Taxation. If you paid for that advice, you were given bad information. This is nto the forum to discuss estate taxation, but look up the difference between an IRREVOCABLE TRUST (which does transfer assets from your taxable estate) and a LIVING TRUST (which does not transfer assets from your taxable estate.



0 Replies
 
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What you posted has NOTHING TO DO with LIVING TRUSTS. All you posted was the tax rates.

Sounds like someone ripped you off.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:24 pm
@Yankee,
You are ignorant.
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:26 pm
I'll do it for you.

REVOCABLE TRUSTS VS. IRREVOCABLE TRUSTS:

1) On Asset Protection -

Revocable Trust (Revocable Living Trust) - NO Protection, NONE. The Grantor, The Trustee, and the Beneficiary are generally the same person. The Grantor did not give-up control of the asset(s).

Irrevocable Trust - YES. The Grantor no longer owns the assets. Assets have been transferred to the INDEPENDENT Trustee who has a fiduciary duty to manage the assets for the benefit of all beneficiaries, which may include the Grantor.

2) On Eliminating Probate -

Revocable Trust (Revocable Living Trust) - YES.

Irrevocable Trust - YES.

3) On Eliminating Estate Taxes -

Revocable Trust (Revocable Living Trust) - NO.

Irrevocable Trust - YES. Assets are not subject to the Estate Tax. The deceased did not have “ownership” of assets nor have assets in his possession at the time of his death.

4) On Deferring or Reducing Capital Gains Taxes -

Revocable Trust (Revocable Living Trust) - NO.

Irrevocable Trust - YES. Assets transferred to the Trust can be structured without capital gains taxes.

5) On Deferring or Reducing Income Taxes -

Revocable Trust (Revocable Living Trust) - NO.

Irrevocable Trust - YES, if combined with international structure.

6) On Form 1040 income tax benefits -

Revocable Trust (Revocable Living Trust) - YES. You have done nothing. You still "own" the assets. All Income and Expenses flow-through to the Grantor’s form 1040.

Irrevocable Trust - YES. If this is a Grantor-Type Trust, for income tax purposes, all income and expenses flow-through to the Grantor’s form 1040.

7) Comments -

Revocable Trust (Revocable Living Trust) - The Revocable Trust is designed to eliminate probate. DOES NOT eliminate estate taxes; ABSOLUTELY NO asset protection, nothing more than an extension of your will.

Irrevocable Trust - For asset protection purposes the trust is irrevocable. Under certain conditions, the trust can be designed to be a pass-trough trust for income taxes.

THE REVOCABLE TRUST (REVOCABLE LIVING TRUST):

What’s wrong with a revocable trust (revocable living trust) is that the owner of the assets (the Grantor) retains too much power over the disposition of the trust assets. This direct control nullifies any defenses against potential frivolous lawsuits. His deemed control is equivalent to ownership, and if you still own the asset you are liable to lose them in a lawsuit. And if you own the asset you will incur an estate tax.

The laws of most states permit the formation of a variety of revocable trust instruments (AB “Family” Trust, QTIP Trust, Crummey Trust, Retained Interest Trusts such as GRITS, GRATs, GRUTs, and QPRT), whereby the trust creator (Grantor) contributes assets for the benefit of others to be managed by a Trustee. While it is also possible for the creator to be either the Trustee or a Beneficiary of the trust he or she has created, such dual capacities will usually destroy the trust's ability to shelter its assets from creditors of the Grantor.

When a Grantor reserves an unqualified power of revocation, he or she is deemed the absolute owner of the trust property, as far as the rights of creditors are concerned. This is true even if a Grantor of a trust does not retain a beneficial interest in the trust, but simply reserves the power to revoke it.

THE IRREVOCABLE TRUST:

Unlike a revocable trust, (revocable living trust), assets transferred to an “irrevocable” trust cannot be changed or dissolved by the Grantor once it has been created. The Grantor no longer owns the assets. An independent Trustee is your best defense.

With an independent trustee, you generally can't remove assets, change beneficiaries, or rewrite any of the terms of the trust. An irrevocable trust is a valuable estate-planning tool. First, you transfer assets into the trust--assets you don't mind losing control over. You may have to pay gift taxes on the value in excess of $1million of the property transferred at the time of transfer or you may be able to set-up a mock sale by using a device known as a private annuity to avoid capital gains taxes.

With an irrevocable trust, all of the property in the trust, plus all future appreciation on the property, is out of your taxable estate. That means your ultimate estate tax liability may be less, resulting in a more tax efficient way to transfer your accumulated wealth to your beneficiaries. Property transferred to your beneficiaries through an irrevocable trust will also avoid probate.

As a bonus, property in an irrevocable trust may be protected from your creditors. Of late this irrevocable trust device is being utilized by many planners for avoiding the Medicare nursing home spend-down provisions whereby if the elderly has to enter a nursing home he must first spend all his money until he does not have any money left.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Revocable-Trust-(Revocable-Living-Trust)-vs.-Irrevocable-Trusts&id=448578

No charge pal!
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You are ignorant.


Do you feel real stupid now!!!

Where can I send the bill for my services!!!!

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:49 pm
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

Quote:
BTW, you failed to answer Cyclo's question; typical conservative no response to a very simple question/issue that you know nothing about.


**** Cyclo, that arrogant fool!!!


And here I could of swore that you claimed a few days ago, that a foul mouth is not a desirable quality to display. In fact, I believe you chided me for using the same language which you now feel free to engage in use of yourself. There's a word for that behavior.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 01:53 pm
@Yankee,
Yankee, YOu know nothing; in a revocable trust, we still manage our assets. I buy and sell our investments.

Our assigned trustees are our older son and my nephew; they do not get involved in the daily management of our financial affairs. They will once we pass on.

Yes, our trust owns the assets, but that's the reason they are protected.
 

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