kelticwizard wrote:I just came across this thread today. I read it in disbelief.
I have never seen such a simple question get so drawn out in my life.
A poster, Trying To Help, asked if anyone can see the private messages being sent from one poster to another. Since message boards have people who have access to parts of it the members don't, such as mods, administrators, (not necessarily the same thing), and the owner, it seemed to be a straightforward question which would receive a straightforward answer.
What followed instead was several pages of people posting AROUND the question without giving the simple answer which Trying To Help asked. One person made the point that the government has programs to monitor the internet, so presumably PM's could be monitored as well.
I thought it was obvious Trying To Help was asking if mods or others with special privileges could read the PM's, but OK, the government angle was at least germane to Trying To Help's question.
Unfortunately, that answer pushed the conversation into discussions of internet privacy generally, and how foolish Trying To Help was for even considering such a thing existed on the internet, and what's more what was Trying To Help's motivation in asking the question. It was pages and pages of pure nonsense to a simple, direct question. Unbelievable.
Jespah, thank you for answering the question directly. Even though you have apologized for taking things personally already, I would just point out to you that Trying To Help only said something specific happened AFTER she was repeatedly asked, (by posters who had NO answer to her real question), as to what prompted her to inquire. It was only then that she gave in and said that yes, something had happened that made her wonder about this. She would never have said it if she wasn't given the Third Degree Lights by these others.
As for Trying To Help's motivation, not that it was ever germane to the question, let me tell you what happened on a different forum. I had PMed the webmaster with some concerns. I finally left when I felt the forum was headed downhill and the webmaster had no intention to stop it.
Now, when you PM the webmaster or a mod, you have to expect that other mods will find out about it because mods on most boards confer with each other on various issues, including those which come them via PM or Email. Nothing wrong with that. However, shjortly after I left, I saw a post by an EX-mod which strongly hinted that she was aware of my PM's. I should point out that this board had a huge percentage of the regular posters as mods-in fact I think there were more mods than there were non-mods among the regular posters. Seriously.
I could understand that perhaps the points I made had been brought up for discussion among the mods. But that still leaves open the question of what an EX mod is doing knowing about this. I think it is clear a present mod was giving the ex mod info of what is going on.
That's pretty bad, when people who are not mods are posting about mod business, which should be privileged info. Apparently, not everyone selected by webmasters for mod crew duty understands the basic principle that what is discussed on the mod crew stays with the mod crew.
Given this experience on a different forum, I doubly don't think Trying To Help's question was so out of line, and I hope Jespah understands that.
At any rate, Trying To Help's motivation should not have been called into question at all.
Hi kw, thank you for reviving this topic. But now I am going to answer you and then lock the topic. There's been enough discussion on this matter and a lot of chat, I think we can all agree.
I want to address your questions.
kelticwizard wrote:... Unfortunately, that answer pushed the conversation into discussions of internet privacy generally
As you -- as we all -- are well aware, topics tend to meander, much like face to face discussions, unless a topic is locked (and that's why a lot of the Forum Help and Announcements topics are locked once the Admin -- usually me -- has passed on information. It's to keep the chatter to a minimum and make it easier for people to find what they're looking for). In the case of this particular topic, we felt it was best to give the membership an opportunity to ask questions, but I think that time has passed and it's time to draw the discussion to a close. This does not mean that other topics cannot be opened.
Far from it! But this one is going to be closed.
kelticwizard wrote:let me tell you what happened on a different forum....Now, when you PM the webmaster or a mod, you have to expect that other mods will find out about it because mods on most boards confer with each other on various issues, including those which come them via PM or Email. ... However, shjortly after I left, I saw a post by an EX-mod which strongly hinted that she was aware of my PM's. I should point out that this board had a huge percentage of the regular posters as mods-in fact I think there were more mods than there were non-mods among the regular posters. Seriously.
It's unfortunate that that happened to you. Here, we take privacy
extremely seriously. As in, we keep our mouths shut because we know that a lot of the Internet is forever, even if all that's left is a page cached in Google or something that someone copied from an old email. And we know you can't unring a bell. So we keep quiet -- an act that can at times cause frustration among the membership -- because no one's perfected "unringing". Privacy is so importance to us that we keep mum even when it makes us look bad or biased (politically or otherwise), because it's so vital to us to hold our members' trust in confidence.
The Moderators and Administrators (yes, there is a difference) know fully well that if they discuss moderation issues outside of our normal, private channels, that they won't be Mods or Admins for long. But I don't want it to seem like I'm out here to threaten them. I'm not about sticks, I'm about carrots. The Moderators and Administrators are some of the best people I have ever met. I trust them implicitly because they have proven their trust, and have done so over and over again. No one would be chosen as a Moderator or Administrator (and I have had a hand in choosing all of the Moderators and Administrators on this site, except, of course, for Craven, who chose me) if it was not felt that they could hold moderation talks in confidence. We consider it a matter of professionalism.
Oh, and one more thing. The tooting of horns and the showing of power isn't what we're about, either. I know that's not 100% on topic but bear with me as I think it's related. We don't go around trumpeting who is and isn't a Mod or Admin because this allows the Mods and Admins to have normal interactions with the rest of the site, and not the overly emphatic shows of fawning "respect" (and often a lot of yessing to death and/or endless requests) that I've seen on sites where Mods and Admins are known to all. I'm sure most people would be surprised at the number of people actually running this site of almost 70,000 people, and they'd probably be surprised at who those people are. Oh, I'm sure you have your thoughts and ideas, but we're keeping a veil around that, too. As for showing power, we also keep that quiet. This is why you don't hear who's been suspended, or for how long, or who has PMs, or the like. Because even suspended members have a right to their privacy. And we'll protect that even if the membership hoots and hollers. Yes, it's
that important to us.
I hope this answers your questions.
