Reason police sometimes use extra force!

okie wrote:

Baldimo wrote:

Bad cop no doughnut. Good cop killer you get a building named after you.

Whats next are they going to name a building after the terrorists who flew planes into the buildings on 9-11?

Setanta, it ain't conservatives doing this. They are your beloved lib leftists. Go ahead and make fun of my comments, but facts and your track record speak for themselves.

I see that you have failed to answer the question, Okie. Who here has blamed the police, and for what have they blamed them?

As for "[my] track record," just what do you assert my "track record" to be with regard to claims about the police?

You're must making up horseshit, Okie. Put up or shut up. What have the people responding here blamed the police for? What is my "track record" with regard to the police and assigning blame?

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okie wrote:

True to form, all libs blame the police first. They are always wrong

"All libs"? "Always wrong"?

Amazing.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Oooh, PC brigade. Sounds very military and forceful. Where can I find them?

Don't they fix computers for some computer store?

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A huge area of police abuse involves police auto chases. (Setanta apparently sees no problem here.)

Often, the chase commences, and continues, because of minor offenses, such as traffic violations. But whether based on minor or not so minor offenses, in a large percentage of cases innocent people, the offender, or the police are injured or killed, and there is property damage.

Protection of the public in chases has a very low priority with the police.

Such chases should be limited to only extreme offenses.

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Advocate wrote:

A huge area of police abuse involves police auto chases. (Setanta apparently sees no problem here.)

This is hilarious. Okie assumes he knows how i think, and excoriates me for it, and Advocate is no different.

When you started your police chase rant, i simply pointed out, first that your characterization of the news piece linked in your initial post was misleading; and second, that you had not presented evidence that this is a large scale problem. As far as i know, you still fail to present evidence that police chases represent a large-scale problem.

Too bad that you don't like to provide evidence for your rants--but it is hardly reasonable to claim you know what my position is on an issue when you steadfastly refuse to provide evidence for your rant.

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Set, you really are a blowhard.

I didn't mislead about anything. I was recalling an incident in which seven young kids were killed in a vehicle chased at speeds up to 100 mph, which chase started because the auto was allegedly being driven erratically. Recalling the incident that occurred over 2.5 years ago, I initially said there were nine kids. Some misleading!

I mentioned a number of incidents. Although you may have left the thread by then, I furnished a link to an Indiana study that was very telling.

There was no rant.

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You demonstrate the strength of your argument, and the typical quality of your rhetorical approach, when you begin by referring to me as blowhard. Your Indiana study was not conclusive evidence that police chases are a significant, large-scale threat to the population, which is why i didn't bother to comment on it.

Your initial post made a vague reference to kids in a car, and when the story was tracked down, it revealed the police began pursuit because of erratic driving by the suspect vehicle. You have never addressed the problem of people driving at excessive speeds and in an erratic manner. You have never provided evidence that police chases are a large-scale problem in the United States. Unless and until you do, i have no reason to see what you posted in that thread as anything more than an unsubstantiated rant.

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Since you don't strike me as being ignorant, you must be aware of the frequency of abusive police chases. I read about one in my area about once two or three weeks. I think that is significant. If you read the Indiana study, you would see the extent of the problem. But you are not the type to admit error.

BTW, the only thing I said that was wrong about the incident with the kids was the number of kids/victims. Big deal! How you quibble!

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old europe wrote:

okie wrote:
True to form, all libs blame the police first. They are always wrong

"All libs"? "Always wrong"?

Amazing.

You don't read the satire very well, old europe. The point was that according to some people, the police are always wrong whenever someone gets hurt or shot in an incident.

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Setanta wrote:

Advocate wrote:
A huge area of police abuse involves police auto chases. (Setanta apparently sees no problem here.)

This is hilarious. Okie assumes he knows how i think, and excoriates me for it, and Advocate is no different.

.....

Setanta, I should have not said "all libs" in my comment. My apologies if you do not fall into the category that automatically blames the police first without looking at the evidence in an unfortunate incident. I make my comments based on following this issue for the past 50 years. There are more liberals than conservatives, percentage wise, that tend to identify emotionally with the lawbreaker and have anti-police sentiments when someone gets hurt in an incident with police. That is my opinion, you don't have to agree, and my apologies to you if you feel personally insulted by my statement of stereotyping all liberals.

And I believe Advocate has a legitimate issue in terms of innocent people sometimes getting hurt in police chases. I don't have the answer to this, because if ever it becomes a policy never to give chase, people will take advantage of it and simply try to escape, and they will. I think more training and doing the chases appropriately can minimize unfortunate accidents. I believe the police are working on this very thing.

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Advocate wrote:

Since you don't strike me as being ignorant, you must be aware of the frequency of abusive police chases. I read about one in my area about once two or three weeks. I think that is significant. If you read the Indiana study, you would see the extent of the problem. But you are not the type to admit error.

BTW, the only thing I said that was wrong about the incident with the kids was the number of kids/victims. Big deal! How you quibble!

It is hardly quibbling to note that people who are already driving at excessive speed, or driving erratically, or both, as was the case to which you referred when someone else tracked it down--it is hardly quibbling to note that such drivers are already endangering the public, and to claim that the police are the problem for chasing them to attempt to end the problem is ludicrous in my never humble opinion.

I see, though, that you are intent on avoiding your burden of proof. It may not surprise you to learn that i am unimpressed by your anecdotal evidence--especially as you seem incapable of recognizing that people do drive at excessive speed, and people who drive erratically, already endanger the public.

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Okie, you're no better than Advocate. Your remarks assume that the police are above all criticism. It the police do use excessive force, it is not only reasonable to criticize them for it, it is a measure of civic responsibility.

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And now, for a little diversion, it's Bob Dylan ! ! !

Clowns to left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you . . .

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Setanta wrote:

Okie, you're no better than Advocate. Your remarks assume that the police are above all criticism. It the police do use excessive force, it is not only reasonable to criticize them for it, it is a measure of civic responsibility.

Where did I say they are never above criticism? First of all, we pay taxes to support the police to serve us, and my experience and knowledge of the police where I've lived indicate that most try to do their jobs. They are human beings with flaws, as we all do, but by and large I do not know of many bad apples. My philosophy is that one should not automatically blame the police first, and any investigation into an incident should always bear in mind that the police are risking their own lives every day they put on a uniform, for us, Setanta. There is always the possibility that a police will over react, but I recognize that this is easy to do. No citizen should ever put themselves into the position to suffer from over-reaction by trying to flee from a scene, becoming belligerent, or resisting arrest.

If a policeman is found to be corrupt or abuse his or her position of power, then they need to be accountable, and then relieved of their duty.

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You are assuming that people automatically blame the police first--but just like Advocate with his high-speed chase rant, you provide no evidence.

In both your case, and that of Advocate, i believe you let your political prejudice color your point of view, and form an opinion on that basis, rather than having examined evidence which leads to your conclusion.

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I base my opinion on following the news of incidents over the years, and my personal knowledge of the police where I've lived. And on the fact I do not know anyone that has ever been abused by the police. I've met a couple of officers that have been hung up on their authority, I guess that is the best way to describe it, one giving a ticket that was not deserved, but the DA was aware of this officer and threw out the ticket, a traffic ticket, in a couple of minutes after reviewing the charge.

Probably the most famous of cases, Rodney King, of "can't we all get along" fame, was an unfortunate case in which the police probably over reacted, but Rodney King bears responsibility by not cooperating with the police in the first place. I guess thats the best example I can think of. Some people would like to hang the police officers and give King a medal, and I just think some balanced judgement needs to be employed. King has not shown himself to practice great citizenship, and if he had, he would not have encountered the problems he did.

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Setanta wrote:

Advocate wrote:
Since you don't strike me as being ignorant, you must be aware of the frequency of abusive police chases. I read about one in my area about once two or three weeks. I think that is significant. If you read the Indiana study, you would see the extent of the problem. But you are not the type to admit error.

BTW, the only thing I said that was wrong about the incident with the kids was the number of kids/victims. Big deal! How you quibble!

It is hardly quibbling to note that people who are already driving at excessive speed, or driving erratically, or both, as was the case to which you referred when someone else tracked it down--it is hardly quibbling to note that such drivers are already endangering the public, and to claim that the police are the problem for chasing them to attempt to end the problem is ludicrous in my never humble opinion.

I see, though, that you are intent on avoiding your burden of proof. It may not surprise you to learn that i am unimpressed by your anecdotal evidence--especially as you seem incapable of recognizing that people do drive at excessive speed, and people who drive erratically, already endanger the public.

******************************************

Okie, you're no better than Advocate. Your remarks assume that the police are above all criticism. It the police do use excessive force, it is not only reasonable to criticize them for it, it is a measure of civic responsibility.

*******************************************

And now, for a little diversion, it's Bob Dylan ! ! !

Clowns to left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you . . .

The police never said that there was speeding. Further, I doubt that there was, as claimed, erratic driving. The cop was probably just suspicious to see a bunch of kids in the car. Further, and of most importance, the cop chased at speeds of up to 100 mph. (That is really a good thing to do when someone is driving erratically.) Are you really saying that the Indiana study was anecdotal? I repeat, you are a blowhard, and a pitiful one at that.

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Since you have no apparent rhetorical device left in your quiver other than personal attack, and since this is the second time you've done it in this thread--i've reported your post to the moderators.

I may exchange remarks with you again when you've grown-up . . . but don't count on it.

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Setanta wrote:

Since you have no apparent rhetorical device left in your quiver other than personal attack, and since this is the second time you've done it in this thread--i've reported your post to the moderators.

I may exchange remarks with you again when you've grown-up . . . but don't count on it.

You reported someone for personal attacks? WOW now I've seen everything. Wonder how that works. YOU report for personal attacks when you are one of the biggest offenders on this board. I guess the old saying is right. You can dish it out, you just can't take it.

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Baldimo wrote:

Setanta wrote:
Since you have no apparent rhetorical device left in your quiver other than personal attack, and since this is the second time you've done it in this thread--i've reported your post to the moderators.

I may exchange remarks with you again when you've grown-up . . . but don't count on it.

You reported someone for personal attacks? WOW now I've seen everything. Wonder how that works. YOU report for personal attacks when you are one of the biggest offenders on this board. I guess the old saying is right. You can dish it out, you just can't take it.

B, well said. I, of course, second that. Set is unremittingly nasty and derisive, and the master at quibbling. Yet he has the temerity of complaining of others making ad hominian comments.

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You misspelled ad hominem. Baldimo complains because i have called him a liar, and then have quoted posts of his in which he complains he could not get a job in construction because he is white, and then claims he proud not to be white--that latter was immediately after having made a comment about rap music and n*ggers.

I don't know what your beef is, but i have not found it necessary to describe you as a "blowhard" in order to point out that you have made assertions for which you have provided no evidence, and that you consistently refer to anecdotal evidence, and don't even correctly describe the singular events to which you refer.

You may both cry to your heart's content--perhaps the moderators will provide you towels.

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hold on now big dawg, I distinctly remember Baldimo specifying that he's Italian and that makes him a non white.

How can you even begin to argue with that? Laughing

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Reason police sometimes use extra force!

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