Ant-ACLU "Nativity Scene"

Setanta wrote:

I believe that you think that you do. But i've dealt with a lot of self-deluded people in my life, so . . . no problem.

Now you believe that I think? That's an improvement on your opinion of me, we might end up being really great friends.
<hugs>

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Two chances . . . one fat, one slim . . .

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Setanta wrote:

Two chances . . . one fat, one slim . . .

Awwww, now you've done gone n'hurt mah feelins.
But, I'll get over it....have to go now & finish making my strudels.
I look forward to our next mutual admiration meeting.
TaTa for now darlin.

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Butrflynet wrote:

http//www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2856973

Just had to delete the extra quote mark (") after the http. Works now.

Creative protest. Looks like something we kids might have done back in the day of war protests, equal rights, desegregation and the like.

They get an A for effort. I'll leave it to others to judge the content.

Nah, don't just delete the quote mark (") after the http.......change it to a colon ( : ).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2856973

As one of the comments on the linked post expressed "That college Repugs can walk upright is a minor miracle.."

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mesquite wrote:

Butrflynet wrote:
http//www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2856973

Just had to delete the extra quote mark (") after the http. Works now.

Creative protest. Looks like something we kids might have done back in the day of war protests, equal rights, desegregation and the like.

They get an A for effort. I'll leave it to others to judge the content.

Nah, don't just delete the quote mark (") after the http.......change it to a colon ( : ).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2856973

As one of the comments on the linked post expressed "That college Repugs can walk upright is a minor miracle.."

They did a pretty good job puttin the ACLU on notice for people that can't walk upright lol

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Madam,

I don't get why you insist this is an anti-ACLU nativity scene. It is actually a pro-ACLU scene as the ACLU exists to defend the rights of these rather naive fools.

The ACLU will certainly defend the statement these students are making.

The right to be a stupid fool is one of the basic rights we all hold so dear (and my right to be a stupid fool is the reason I give to the ACLU).

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I am soooooooo disappointed, someone finally gets the link to work, I click on it and no ACLU and No Ants!!!

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Setanta wrote:

Well, i'd never visited Democraticunderground, but now, thanks to LSM, i've wasted my time there.

I don't believe you were forced there at gunpoint.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Madam,

I don't get why you insist this is an anti-ACLU nativity scene. It is actually a pro-ACLU scene as the ACLU exists to defend the rights of these rather naive fools.

The ACLU will certainly defend the statement these students are making.

The right to be a stupid fool is one of the basic rights we all hold so dear (and my right to be a stupid fool is the reason I give to the ACLU).

Uh, maybe because that's what the people that constructed it called it?
Do you think the ACLU would defend these students if they had erected a legitimate Nativity Scene?

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LoneStarMadam wrote:

ebrown_p wrote:
Madam,

I don't get why you insist this is an anti-ACLU nativity scene. It is actually a pro-ACLU scene as the ACLU exists to defend the rights of these rather naive fools.

The ACLU will certainly defend the statement these students are making.

The right to be a stupid fool is one of the basic rights we all hold so dear (and my right to be a stupid fool is the reason I give to the ACLU).

Uh, maybe because that's what the people that constructed it called it?
Do you think the ACLU would defend these students if they had erected a legitimate Nativity Scene?

LSM is correct. Here is another link for the story.

From the link: (I added the bold)

Quote:

(December 5, 2006)--The Young Conservatives Of Texas-University of Texas Chapter has erected what members call an "ACLU Nativity Scene" on the West Mall of campus.

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Here's another similar story. This guy stuffed a santa suit, hung it from a cross and planted it in his front yard to protest rabid holiday consumerism. People are complaining about it, not because it desecrates the cross, but because they have to answer their kid's questions about why santa is on a cross and not at the North Pole.

http://butrfly.net/Albums/MiscellaneousGoodies/images/santa_jesus210.jpg_fl.jpg

Article about Crucified Santa

Excerpt:

Quote:

A neighbour complained to the municipality and but was told Metchosin couldn't do anything because the cross is on Wright's property.

Earlier in the afternoon, Wright had a visit from the pastor of St. Mary's Anglican Church.

"He said he had some parishioners who are concerned about it and don't know what to make of it."

Wright, who was raised a Catholic, said Christmas is very important to him, but he stopped buying presents years ago.

"I used to love Christmas, but when you think about it, I loved it for the wrong reason," laughed the 69-year-old artist. "But you learn with age."

Same type of creative protest with the double-edged sword. If the victim of the protest complains, they find themselves hypocrites.

Excellent chess game. They've both been checkmated. This one is especially good because it smites several traditions.

Can't complain about the crucifixion of santa if you think the cross has been desecrated because it is supposed to reinforce the idea that Christmas is about christianity, not shopping.

Can't complain about the religious protest because it is not on public land.

Can't complain about it being santa on there and unfairly dishonest for the kids if parents are lying to them about the existence of santa claus.

Excellent strategies for both of these protests. For those having trouble viewing the ACLU protest scene, here's a photo from that site for comparison.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20061204/i/r3145159847.jpg

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LoneStarMadam wrote:

ebrown_p wrote:
Madam,

I don't get why you insist this is an anti-ACLU nativity scene. It is actually a pro-ACLU scene as the ACLU exists to defend the rights of these rather naive fools.

The ACLU will certainly defend the statement these students are making.

The right to be a stupid fool is one of the basic rights we all hold so dear (and my right to be a stupid fool is the reason I give to the ACLU).

Uh, maybe because that's what the people that constructed it called it?
Do you think the ACLU would defend these students if they had erected a legitimate Nativity Scene?

As a strong supporter of the ACLU I am just pointing out the irony. They call it the "anti-ACLU" nativity scene even though, if some misguided school administration tried to forbid them this form of expression, the ACLU would be at the front of the line of people defending them.

I think this display is a bit to the side of bad-taste, only slightly funny and not very clever (i would have done a better job if I were conservative)... but I strongly defend their right to this kind of statement.

God bless the ACLU.

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Butrfly,

The crucified Santa is a perfect example of good edgy art.

It makes me uncomfortable, but also makes me chuckle. The political statement it makes is ambiguous-- it can be taken in a couple of different ways either showing how secular culture has replaced the religious aspect of Christmans, or how Religion is always manipulating our securlar culture. The juxtaposition of sacred and profane really works.

I love it.

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On second thought (although I like the artistic part of Santa) I think the neighbors have a valid point. I don't know how one would explain that to their kids...

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ebrown_p, you asked mw why I insisted on calling the display the anti-ACLU Nativity. Now you're saying that you didn't ask that?
Again, would the ACLU support a legitimate Nativity scene?

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The ACLU's mission is to defend civil liberties including those civil liberties in the Bill of Rights.

I understand the point that some disagree with what "civil liberties" are and that these people are particularly upset with the ACLU's interpretation of the "establishment" clause of the first amendment (saying that government can't promote one religion over another).

But the Bill of Rights and following amendments are there to give Americans civil rights. The Judicial system exists (as was set up by our founders) to make a final decision when two segments of society disagree as to what our rights (as defined by the Constitution) really are. The ACLU simple advocates on the side of what many Americans call liberty in front of the courts.

You obviously disagree with at least some of the positions taken by the ACLU, but hopefully you don't have a knee-jerk hatred of them. I am certain that there are many of their positions that they have taken that you completely agree with. There have on occasion (although rare) been ACLU positions I have disagreed with including one that prompted a nasty letter from me in response to a fund raising letter.

In the ACLU's defense, they have consistantly taken pro civil liberties positions accross the political spectrum.

The ACLU has defended the rights of evangelical Christian students to pray and to proselytize as well as atheist students to be in schools run without religious influence. They have protected the rights of KKK and neo-Nazi groups to march and protest and express themselves as well as the rights of minorities to live lives without institutional discrimination.

I hope you are open minded enough to see the good in people who are defending unpopular opinions regardless of where they come from. Defense of unpopular opinions is a critical part of any free society.

God bless the ACLU.

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I still want to know what happened to the ants. I want ants!

http://www.geo-outdoors.info/images/fire_ants/fire_ants.jpg

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ebrown_p wrote:

Butrfly,

The crucified Santa is a perfect example of good edgy art.

It makes me uncomfortable, but also makes me chuckle. The political statement it makes is ambiguous-- it can be taken in a couple of different ways either showing how secular culture has replaced the religious aspect of Christmans, or how Religion is always manipulating our securlar culture. The juxtaposition of sacred and profane really works.

I love it.

I saw a painting the other day. It had a Mexican with a pole and a bandanna full of stuff wrapped up in barbed wire with bullet holes all through him.

I was disgusted by it, but you would probably have liked it. It had a strong political message.

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ebrown_p, The ACLU is an organization, a thing made up of people, I can disagree with people & not hate them. I disagree with about 95% of what the ACLU does.
I have another question. Why would the ACLU defend this nativity but not a real one?

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McGentrix, Good political art is often shocking... but not everything that is shocking is good art. But you are right that I probably would have like that painting. I certainly would have defended the right of someone to paint it or display it.

Madam, I can't speak for the ACLU as a whole, and I certainly can't speak for your broad sweeping generalization that they wouldn't accept a "real nativity". There are millions of real nativities that the ACLU has no problem with... like the one at my parents house for example.

There are many of us Americans who feel that it is important that the religion of the majority not be imposed on government sponsored public life.

The first amendment to the Constitution has a clause preventing the establishment of religion. This clause was added by the founders specifically because they understood the danger of government imposed religion.

Many of us Americans feel that many religious symbols supported by public institutions or on public land cross the line. The Supreme Court has repeatedly agreed with us.

I don't believe the ACLU is against Nativity scenes. I certainly am not against nativity scenes.

I am against the use of religious symbols in publically owned spaces that would favor one religion over another simply because the one religion is the religion of the majority. That is what the Bill of Rights is for... to protect the liberties of the minority against the power of the majority.

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Ant-ACLU "Nativity Scene"

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