I have been reading along, but have not formed a binding opinion of any of it.
Just a few minutes ago, NPR had a fairly lengthy report on the rioting on their "All Things Considered" evening news program. I don't see this as a black&white issue. I see it as an example of the 'them vs us' mentality, where an economically marginalized community automatically sees all authority -- the police, in particular -- as representing 'them.' Snood, you cautioned against any arguments which bring in the fact that the police chief is black. But I think that, in this case, that fact is significant. The community is fighting the police, not any white entity. Bricks are thrown at people wearing a uniform, not at people who have different skin pigmentation.
In the final analysis, a lot of what we tend to see as a 'race' problem really boils down to an 'economic' problem, a resentful battle of the have-nots against the haves.
As i've worked today (i'm still here, damn it!), i've heard different bits and pieces on the topic from the NPR news reports. Two salient features came out for me. One is that there is a continuing belief that the police shot at the motorcyclist, or knocked the individual from his motorcycle before it struck the building. This means that those who are rioting believe, even if incorrectly, that this is a case of police misconduct. The second significant piece of information which i gleaned from the news reports is that the majority of people in this community do not own their own homes, and that the majority of them who do live in rental properties, live in what local authorities have described, on more than one occassion as substandard housing.
Which brings me to a disturbing issue which has been raised in this thread--the issue of property damage. I start from the assumption that everyone here subscribes to the notion that one ought not damage, sequester or steal the property of others. That being positied, i am disturbed that the issue of property is among the first things about which people become concerned. When someone's life has been lost, the question of property takes on a secondary significance. It is also apparent that those for whom this is a major consideration are unable to view the world from the point of view of those who do not own the property upon which they reside, and which property is described by property-owning individuals as sub-standard housing. Those who have little to lose are not likely to give a damn about property loss which is, essentially, no loss to themselves. One might decry this on a "moral" basis, which is absurd. Morality is a construct, and one most often abused by the desire of the moralist to underpin or legitimize their opinion. If any one of us here had long been a member of such a community, with a sense of being under seige, surrounded by a different race who they felt despised and exploited them, while relegated to foul living conditions, and constantly apprehensive of being victimized by authority--i rather doubt that we would show any more regard for property than do those who live in Benton Harbor. What kind of priority is it, or what does such a priority say about someone, when the passions they condemn for resulting in property damage, were inspired by a long-standing belief that their (those doing the property damage) lives could be cavalierly forfeit at any moment. Even if misguided or ill-informed, such a sentiment is indicative of something very basic in society being horribly warped--what Roosevelt characterized as the freedom from fear.
Excellent points, Setanta. I've always felt that the economically disadvantaged in this country have a great deal of justification if they view the Law (cap L) as being designed to protect property-owners and has no bearing on the lives of the disadvantaged.
Setanta and Merry andrew, thanks for thoughtful responses. Merry, I didn't "caution against" acknowledging that the police chief is black- I said that no one should jump to any conclusions based on that fact. I've seen similar situations where some are far too hasty, IMO, to discount the reality of any racial aspect based on the fact that the lines aren't crystal clear and completely unambiguous.
Setanta - I think you are right on when you point out that there is very little of either willingness or ability or both, to see some issues from the others' perspective. and also in your observation that breaking a streetlight or two might not seem so terrible to someone who feels oppressed, or certainly to someone who has lost a friend or loved one to the perceived oppressors.
Thanks, Boss . . .
I would like to add another point here--i do not condone the property damage; neither do i condemn it. I do try to understand the provenance of such behavior. To be black in America is still, in far too many places, considered to be prima facia evidence of criminal intent. To be black in America, viewing the world of white people around you--even for those blacks whose entire lives have been lived in the "white" world of the middle class--is to be constantly aware that you are more likely to be judged by the color of your skin than by the content of your character, forty years after the formulation of that idea was so eloquently expressed.
Having come from a background equally as disadvantaged as Benton Harbor, I have to take longer than many of you to come to a conclusion, reason being, my natural bent is to side with the rioters. I have to check myself before examining the evidence. Setanta appears to have the most rational response thus far.
I empathize by token of my experience with different points of view from various posters, but I don't know enough to make any judgement.
I am white, I work in a design field, I like property and hate to see it destroyed for community and design reasons, I see what is called rioting by one group and unrest by others, usually, as an acting out of frustration. I see what the frustration is about in many cases. I think there have been many instances of police abuse of power in the past but I don't know about this one, we need good police, not no police, and we need people who rent - which was me for years, and may be again - to have pride of place, not always an easy thing to ask.
There need to be channels for complaints to be listened to and acted on if reasonable, and channels in the hearts of renters for building a safe and harboring community...not all in an us/them way.
My niece, the person I love most, is black and I see her have assumptions made about her. My ex was raised blocks from two major conflagrations in LA and was playing baseball while white about three blocks away from the start of the Watts trouble as it started. My present business partner and I left early to go home from the office just in case during the last LA conflagration, and the place next door was burned.
So, I don't like rioting and looting and am not sympathetic to it, but I don't think the rioters are the only players in making the situation happen.
People don't just go into wild tizzy fits and hurt other or damage property just because of a small incident. As I said in my first post, I'f like to know the background of that city. There's always more than one reason for a riot.
Here's the NY Times link, from the Associate Press wire service, as of 9:03 p.m. EDST:
Michigan City Orders Curfew After Rioting[/color]
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?floc=NW_1-T&oldflok=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20030618%2F184108230.htm&sc=1110&photoid=20030618BEN04D
Benton Harbor, a city of 12,000 people situated on Lake Michigan about 100 miles east of Chicago, is 92 percent black, according to the 2000 census. Boarded-up buildings dot the community, and the average unemployment rate last year was 25 percent. Appliance maker Whirlpool is headquartered in Benton Harbor, but on the outskirts of town.
It is separated by a river bridge from the St. Joseph, which offers a stark contrast: The city of 8,800 is 90 percent white, bustles with trendy restaurants, boutiques, offices and a picturesque waterfront, and had an average unemployment rate last year of 2 percent.
Alex Kotlowitz wrote about the two cities and their racial divisions in the 1998 book ``The Other Side of the River,'' which chronicled an investigation into the 1991 death of a black teenager last seen in St. Joseph.
What no one on this thread has seemed to noticed is that Benton Harbor/St Josephs is what this country is becoming and the racial divide is irrelevant to that trend.
Beg pardon, aquiunk, I do agree with your notice of haves repositioning recently relative to havenots.
One of the underlying problems for south LA was not people who didn't care, but people who lost jobs they had come to LA for and held....
The loss of our manufacturing economy..well, a widespread manufacturing, physical product building economy has been a general loss and the ramifications are seen in what are seen as riots. Not that I like riots, but they are a flash point after much time has past. And stupid idiots do take advantage, but there is a reason for that sequence, they are not otherwise engaged in productive behavior because great opportunities are not there.
We have lost a lot of manufacturing and we have crafts somewhat alive but not really connected to provision...
What tangent am I off on now? Crafts may not solve this city's mess, but production is satisfying when it isn't stultifying. People can do and build a lot, and hardly any really know of it.
Another tangent - I learned fairly late in life to wield a hammer, put up a post.
I learned to embroider years before, and I am not sure that was so dippy, it trained my eye. It isn't just the people in this focused on town, but many of us who don't know what we can build, or move around and about.
Including the well to do. I remember having to deal with my mother's house when she was in the midst of terrible Alzheimer's. I ended up selling it since I didn't know, even though to get a conservatorship I had to have an attorney, that I could stay there as I was Joint Tenant. To sell it, I fixed it up. I was in my early twenties. I was totally confused. My mother had been wandering for miles and I had finally figured stuff out, no thanks to any of several expert types I asked, but not their fault either, as care was not understood at all then, except for Lockand there was no such thing as supportive groups.
Anyway, I was dating an md and had asked him and some other friends over for a help day and I would cook and so on. What a debacle. I cooked, all those friends knew less than I did about fixing windows and so on.
So...we have whole batches of people who can't fix stuff, and whole batches alienated since they rent awful places and get no fixing from the landlords.
And swirls of people like me or more moneyed than me, who do this thing called gentrifying, some of us because we can't afford anything else.
I see jobs all around me needing to be done, if there were some way to energize it happening.
Thanks, all. You make it very clear to me why I hold A2K in such high regard...
I saw an interview with a white woman resident of Benton Harbor. she said something very much to the effect of "These people can't go to the police for justice, they can't go to a lawyer, they can't go to the courts. I understand their anger."
I fully believe that riots are preventable - all that needs to be done is to NOT ignore what's happening.
excuuuuuuuuse me, but I've first been insulted by cjhsa and then the link provided re police misconduct has been ignored - whassup with that?
http://www.tolerance.org/search/query.html?col=test&qt=police+misconduct
doesn't anyone care enough about this to check it out or are you stuck at debating the lack of merit in rioting?
It was late and I was tired, sweet. I had to leave it til I could concentrate on the information. I will check it more closely today.
I have just now hear on NPR, a statement by a man whose brother was the motorcyclist who died. He was appealing for an end to the rioting.
