1
   

Illegal Immigrants not a burden to health care?

 
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 05:14 pm
Even though it sounds harsh, it wouldn't be unconstitutional. The baby would be an American citizen & afforded all the rights & priveleges that goes with it, the mother would still be an illegal alien & subject to our immigration laws.
Kids are taken from parents by our courts every day in this country.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 05:30 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Even though it sounds harsh, it wouldn't be unconstitutional. The baby would be an American citizen & afforded all the rights & priveleges that goes with it, the mother would still be an illegal alien & subject to our immigration laws.
Kids are taken from parents by our courts every day in this country.


Mysteryman specifically calls for stripping the citizenship from an American citizen who hasn't done anything wrong (and without due process).

This is most certainly unconstitutional.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 05:47 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Even though it sounds harsh, it wouldn't be unconstitutional. The baby would be an American citizen & afforded all the rights & priveleges that goes with it, the mother would still be an illegal alien & subject to our immigration laws.
Kids are taken from parents by our courts every day in this country.


Mysteryman specifically calls for stripping the citizenship from an American citizen who hasn't done anything wrong (and without due process).

This is most certainly unconstitutional.


I agree, but some in Congress are looking at that proposal. IF & until that happens, I don't believe the baby can be stripped of his/her citizenship. I hope Congress never passes that amendment because who knows, maybe the US might get mad at me (or Mysteryman) one day & strip me of my citizenship. Another slippery slope being looked at. Sad
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 05:51 pm
Quote:

I hope Congress never passes that amendment because who knows, maybe the US might get mad at me (or Mysteryman) one day & strip me of my citizenship. Another slippery slope being looked at.


I've got my list ...
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 06:27 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Even though it sounds harsh, it wouldn't be unconstitutional. The baby would be an American citizen & afforded all the rights & priveleges that goes with it, the mother would still be an illegal alien & subject to our immigration laws.
Kids are taken from parents by our courts every day in this country.


Mysteryman specifically calls for stripping the citizenship from an American citizen who hasn't done anything wrong (and without due process).

This is most certainly unconstitutional.


I agree, but some in Congress are looking at that proposal. IF & until that happens, I don't believe the baby can be stripped of his/her citizenship. I hope Congress never passes that amendment because who knows, maybe the US might get mad at me (or Mysteryman) one day & strip me of my citizenship. Another slippery slope being looked at. Sad


If the mother is here illegally,just to have her baby born in the US,then why should the mother be allowed to stay?
And as for taking the baby away from the mother,I did say that the mother would be given that choice.
If she wants the baby,thats fine.She can take it with her when she is deported.
Of course,if she wants the baby to have US citizenship,she loses custody of the baby forever.
Either way,its the mothers choice.
What is unfair about that?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 07:40 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Quote:

I hope Congress never passes that amendment because who knows, maybe the US might get mad at me (or Mysteryman) one day & strip me of my citizenship. Another slippery slope being looked at.


I've got my list ...


Me too... anti-American A2K'ers such as yourself are high on it...
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 07:46 pm
mysteryman wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Even though it sounds harsh, it wouldn't be unconstitutional. The baby would be an American citizen & afforded all the rights & priveleges that goes with it, the mother would still be an illegal alien & subject to our immigration laws.
Kids are taken from parents by our courts every day in this country.


Mysteryman specifically calls for stripping the citizenship from an American citizen who hasn't done anything wrong (and without due process).

This is most certainly unconstitutional.


I agree, but some in Congress are looking at that proposal. IF & until that happens, I don't believe the baby can be stripped of his/her citizenship. I hope Congress never passes that amendment because who knows, maybe the US might get mad at me (or Mysteryman) one day & strip me of my citizenship. Another slippery slope being looked at. Sad


If the mother is here illegally,just to have her baby born in the US,then why should the mother be allowed to stay?
And as for taking the baby away from the mother,I did say that the mother would be given that choice.
If she wants the baby,thats fine.She can take it with her when she is deported.
Of course,if she wants the baby to have US citizenship,she loses custody of the baby forever.
Either way,its the mothers choice.
What is unfair about that?


The mother SHOULD NOT be allowed to remain in the US, I think I said that, or that even though the baby would be a US Citizen, the mother would still be an illegal alien.
I did run across something interesting, I Googeled "Project Wetback", a program from the late 40's & early 50's, give it a look.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 08:47 pm
If you simply changed the law so that any baby born anywhere was the citizenship of its parents, you'd do away with all that nonsense.

Simple.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 09:27 pm
Mame, the problem with that is then you end up with a subculture that has lived in a country for generations that have lived their entire life in a country and contributed to its economy and society without belonging.

The US policy enshrined in the 14th amendment (as upheld by 100 years of precedent (and a couple of supreme court cases) has served us well. Each wave of immigrants has assimalated after a generation even though a number of immigrants from each group came here illegally.

Imagine if every person of Itailian, Greek, Polish, Chinese or Jewish descent whose ancestors had arrived in the past 100 years had to worry if they couldn't find documents for their grandparents.

The US policy had led to diversity and assimilation of generation after generation. Now there are doubtless Americans who don't even know their grandparents didn't have permission to come... but no one cares because we are all Americans equally.

This is one of the things that make America great.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Nov, 2006 09:48 pm
And you know the 14th was passed to protect former slaves.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 07:10 am
Just for fun, do a Google image search on "American Train" and then on "Mexican Train".
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 08:55 am
cjhsa wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
Quote:

I hope Congress never passes that amendment because who knows, maybe the US might get mad at me (or Mysteryman) one day & strip me of my citizenship. Another slippery slope being looked at.


I've got my list ...


Me too... anti-American A2K'ers such as yourself are high on it...


WHAT??? anti-Americans such as yourself are high on it? What the hell does that mean? You want a bunch of grifters in Congress to have the ability to strip American born citizens their right of citizenship?
That is pure ignorance on your part.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 08:58 am
ebrown_p wrote:
Mame, the problem with that is then you end up with a subculture that has lived in a country for generations that have lived their entire life in a country and contributed to its economy and society without belonging.

The US policy enshrined in the 14th amendment (as upheld by 100 years of precedent (and a couple of supreme court cases) has served us well. Each wave of immigrants has assimalated after a generation even though a number of immigrants from each group came here illegally.

Imagine if every person of Itailian, Greek, Polish, Chinese or Jewish descent whose ancestors had arrived in the past 100 years had to worry if they couldn't find documents for their grandparents.

The US policy had led to diversity and assimilation of generation after generation. Now there are doubtless Americans who don't even know their grandparents didn't have permission to come... but no one cares because we are all Americans equally.

This is one of the things that make America great.


Can't remember the name now, but a few years ago a man that was outed as a former nazi was stripped & sent packing & he had been here for years. I believe he was living in Mi.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 09:59 am
ebrown_p wrote:
Mame, the problem with that is then you end up with a subculture that has lived in a country for generations that have lived their entire life in a country and contributed to its economy and society without belonging.

The US policy enshrined in the 14th amendment (as upheld by 100 years of precedent (and a couple of supreme court cases) has served us well. Each wave of immigrants has assimalated after a generation even though a number of immigrants from each group came here illegally.

Imagine if every person of Itailian, Greek, Polish, Chinese or Jewish descent whose ancestors had arrived in the past 100 years had to worry if they couldn't find documents for their grandparents.

The US policy had led to diversity and assimilation of generation after generation. Now there are doubtless Americans who don't even know their grandparents didn't have permission to come... but no one cares because we are all Americans equally.

This is one of the things that make America great.


Sorry, just now saw your reply. I have to disagree... when I worked in the medical system here in Canada, a Mexican doctor asked me to extend her stay, illegally, so her child could be Canadian. Naturally, I said no.

That law is simply another way for people to take advantage. That means that that child could live elsewhere its entire life and then come here and get a cheap university education, even though its parents had not paid one penny into the system. I completely disagree with that.

Foreign students pay dearly to be educated here and it's because they haven't paid into the system - as it is, all education is subsidized in Canada to some degree.

The other thing is that in Canada we are not assimilating incomers; we cater to them. We encouage them to embrace their cultural differences and even give them money to help them do this. We go a little too far sometimes, I'm afraid. I would prefer to assimilate, not accomodate.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 10:22 am
I think I like you Madam.

You hold views that are far more conservative than mine, but you obviously have a strong sense of decency ... and you aren't afraid to show your teeth, even to people on your side of the political spectrum who cross the line.

I respect that.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 10:48 am
Thank you, ebrown_p... but I have to laugh a little at you thinking me conservative Smile I don't want people taking advantage (individuals) or being taken advantage of (society) yet our programs and laws seem to foster both. Is this a conservative view?

Take welfare, for instance - I am all for it for people that need it, but what about a guy in his late 20's who just doesn't want to work? Or a family who stays on welfare for generations? Compare them to the mom or dad who is working for minimum wage - he has to pay for his own transportation, daycare and medical, and often doesn't make ends meet. He is ineligible for $ assistance unless his earnings are below an out-dated poverty level. How can we justify providing everything to a lazy bum and nothing to a guy who's actually working? The system doesn't make sense.

Recently there was an article in the paper about an inmate who'd been getting 63 welfare cheques per month deposited to his bank account. He's already getting housed, fed, and educated (if he likes), and manages to yet again stiff the system.

The penalty? Nothing! He's already IN jail!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 10:57 am
Mame wrote:
Take welfare, for instance ... ...


I think, there quite a similarity between your (ours/society's/most people's ...) view about that (in "welfare countries, that is) and the topic "illegal immigrants":

they have always been there - there have always been illegal immigrants and e.g. people relying a lifelong on welfare. But there numbers were (relatively) small. And the reaction thus was different.[Even I remember that large families, all on welfare, got christmas presents from "normal" citizen", who regarded them as poor people, needing help and some sunshine.] - But now, with greater numbers and especially since everyone everywhere is looking more for and on his own well-being, now things changed. Everywhere, mostly at least. And in my view.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:01 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
Mame, the problem with that is then you end up with a subculture that has lived in a country for generations that have lived their entire life in a country and contributed to its economy and society without belonging.

The US policy enshrined in the 14th amendment (as upheld by 100 years of precedent (and a couple of supreme court cases) has served us well. Each wave of immigrants has assimalated after a generation even though a number of immigrants from each group came here illegally.

Imagine if every person of Itailian, Greek, Polish, Chinese or Jewish descent whose ancestors had arrived in the past 100 years had to worry if they couldn't find documents for their grandparents.

The US policy had led to diversity and assimilation of generation after generation. Now there are doubtless Americans who don't even know their grandparents didn't have permission to come... but no one cares because we are all Americans equally.

This is one of the things that make America great.


Can't remember the name now, but a few years ago a man that was outed as a former nazi was stripped & sent packing & he had been here for years. I believe he was living in Mi.


His name was John Demjanjuk (also spelled phonetically as Demyanyuk), and he was living in Ohio. He was accused of being a guard at the Treblinka concentration camp, known as "Ivan the Terrible." (Ivan is John in Russian and other Slavic languages.)

He was tried and convicted, but then exonerated by the Israeli Supreme Court. He returned to the United States, and his citizenship was reinstated. However, the Justice Department then accused him of having been a member of the SS, and he was eventually deported to the Ukraine.

You can read the Wikipedia article about Demjanjuk here.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:13 am
ebrown_p wrote:
I think I like you Madam.

You hold views that are far more conservative than mine, but you obviously have a strong sense of decency ... and you aren't afraid to show your teeth, even to people on your side of the political spectrum who cross the line.

I respect that.


Oh my goodness, I am humbeled. Smile
I enjoy political debate, debate, not flame throwing (of which I am guilty of on occassion Embarrassed ) & yes, I will & do disagree with conservatives on some issues, the death penalty, for example. I am not a member of any political party & vote for whichever candidate most coincides with my own views.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:15 am
Setanta wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
Mame, the problem with that is then you end up with a subculture that has lived in a country for generations that have lived their entire life in a country and contributed to its economy and society without belonging.

The US policy enshrined in the 14th amendment (as upheld by 100 years of precedent (and a couple of supreme court cases) has served us well. Each wave of immigrants has assimalated after a generation even though a number of immigrants from each group came here illegally.

Imagine if every person of Itailian, Greek, Polish, Chinese or Jewish descent whose ancestors had arrived in the past 100 years had to worry if they couldn't find documents for their grandparents.

The US policy had led to diversity and assimilation of generation after generation. Now there are doubtless Americans who don't even know their grandparents didn't have permission to come... but no one cares because we are all Americans equally.

This is one of the things that make America great.


Can't remember the name now, but a few years ago a man that was outed as a former nazi was stripped & sent packing & he had been here for years. I believe he was living in Mi.


His name was John Demjanjuk (also spelled phonetically as Demyanyuk), and he was living in Ohio. He was accused of being a guard at the Treblinka concentration camp, known as "Ivan the Terrible." (Ivan is John in Russian and other Slavic languages.)

He was tried and convicted, but then exonerated by the Israeli Supreme Court. He returned to the United States, and his citizenship was reinstated. However, the Justice Department then accused him of having been a member of the SS, and he was eventually deported to the Ukraine.

You can read the Wikipedia article about Demjanjuk here.


Thanks, I think I had read all that. except the part about hin being deported again.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/19/2024 at 01:43:19