1
   

Illegal Immigrants not a burden to health care?

 
 
Reply Thu 16 Nov, 2006 10:41 pm
So says the Rand study shown here in the Daily News.

I notice they don't count children and senior citizen illegal aliens, and they say doctors can't ask about a patient's status. Where are they getting these numbers, from volunteers?

Is this situation going to get any better with a Democratic Congress, or will we continue to witness skewed "facts" and poor handling of our healthcare system?
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 7,193 • Replies: 218
No top replies

 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Nov, 2006 10:54 pm
Less of a health burden? yet due to the huge influx of illegal immigrants using our ERs near border towns, several ERs have had to close.
No, the Dems won't change anything either, both parties pander to the Hispanics for votes.
I like my neighbors car more than mine, wonder what would happen if I just took it since illegal doesn't seem to matter anymore.
0 Replies
 
LittleBitty
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Nov, 2006 10:58 pm
I have to wonder if there is enough concern to pressure congress or the President. When will enough be enough?

I thought that was a bad enough situation and now this study that seems well, remarkable to say the least.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Nov, 2006 11:13 pm
I doubt it, not as long as businesses keep leading the politicians to the $$ trough & as long as businesses can hire cheap labor, they will feed the porksters.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 01:14 pm
Yeah, let's blame all our problems on illegal immigrants.

They are here because many Americans want them here-- from small farmers to businesses. It is not all businesses fault either. There are many of us normal Americans who think that the US should treat human beings who are here with compassion.

The point of the article is that there are 46 million uninsured Americans. Blaming the healthcare crisis on the illegal immigrants (some of who are insured) is stupid.

Even more stupid is the fact that the best way to cut the cost of health care is to increase the amount of preventative care. People, immigrants or no, who have access to decent health care make far fewer expensive ER visits.

The Anti-Immigrant yahoos in this country aren't very smart.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 01:45 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Yeah, let's blame all our problems on illegal immigrants.

They are here because many Americans want them here-- from small farmers to businesses. It is not all businesses fault either. There are many of us normal Americans who think that the US should treat human beings who are here with compassion.

The point of the article is that there are 46 million uninsured Americans. Blaming the healthcare crisis on the illegal immigrants (some of who are insured) is stupid.

Even more stupid is the fact that the best way to cut the cost of health care is to increase the amount of preventative care. People, immigrants or no, who have access to decent health care make far fewer expensive ER visits.

The Anti-Immigrant yahoos in this country aren't very smart.


Who's blaming illegal immigrants for coming here? If I lived in the squalid conditions some of them live in I'd try to get away too. Have you done anything about it? have you contacted your representative, your senator, the WHite House? Are you complacent with the status quo on the border problem? All of those fence jumpers are not Mexicans. This is a national security issue as well as a drain on our resources. You think the southern border of Mexico is open? It is not!!
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 02:03 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Yeah, let's blame all our problems on illegal immigrants.

They are here because many Americans want them here-- from small farmers to businesses. It is not all businesses fault either. There are many of us normal Americans who think that the US should treat human beings who are here with compassion.

The point of the article is that there are 46 million uninsured Americans. Blaming the healthcare crisis on the illegal immigrants (some of who are insured) is stupid.

Even more stupid is the fact that the best way to cut the cost of health care is to increase the amount of preventative care. People, immigrants or no, who have access to decent health care make far fewer expensive ER visits.

The Anti-Immigrant yahoos in this country aren't very smart.


Were not blaming illegals, but how do you explain the closing of hospitals in border towns? Remember they can't turn away people because of lack of health care so they have to treat them. When that happens who pays the bills? You and I will end up paying for them and that isn't very cool.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 03:23 pm
My primary interest in the immigration debate is that all people living in the US are treated with dignity and compassion. I think this is especially important since these immigrants are participating in and contributing to US society and economy. But to me the primary issue is compassion.

We need a solution to the immigration issue that is both smart and compassionate.

The economic impact of immigrants is an important issue to many. As the article that started this thread points out, immigration is not one of the biggest parts of our national health care crisis.

In general the healthcare crisis (rising costs 46 million Americans uninsured) and the immigration argument should be treated separately.

Refusing preventative healthcare to people until they get critically ill is not smart. Treating disease early is very cheap, treating disease when it becomes critical is very expensive.

There is also the issue of public health. You don't want people without healthcare walking around with a communicable disease that a relatively cheap shot can cure. If a portion of a society can't get health care it makes everyone less healthy. Now this is a national security issue since in a biological terrorist attack-- people with access to healthcare will report for help quickly and will greatly lessen the spread.

If we magically kicked out all undocumented immigrants tomorrow, it wouldn't have much impact on our healthcare system. It may even hurt our public health since some areas, especially long term care, benefit from labor provided by undocumented immigrants.

To fix healthcare we need a way to make sure that everyone who lives and works in the US has access to decent, affordable care. Providing a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants working here so they can keep from being mistreated and have more opportunities to better themselves is a step in the right direction. Some "illegal" immigrants insure themselves right now. Obviously the more people who can do this, the better it is for the healthcare system.

Bashing illegal immigrants is very fashionable with conservatives right now. But usually the rhetoric coming from the right makes no sense.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 03:31 pm
ebrown is on the right track; treat all humans with respect and dignity. The other question about our national health care costs is an issue that needed to be addressed years ago; it's not a sudden problem. When GWBush took over the white house, we already had 39 million Americans without health insurance. Most recent reports show we now have over 46 million Amerians without health insurance.

Our country spends more on health insurance than any other country in the world, and we fail to provide health insurance to everybody. There's something drastically wrong with this picture; spend more, but get less.

We need to have universal health insurance in our country, and provide health insurance to everybody. Something needs to be tweaked, and it's not by refusing health care to anybody that seeks it in the richest country in the world.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 03:37 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
My primary interest in the immigration debate is that all people living in the US are treated with dignity and compassion. I think this is especially important since these immigrants are participating in and contributing to US society and economy. But to me the primary issue is compassion.

We need a solution to the immigration issue that is both smart and compassionate.

The economic impact of immigrants is an important issue to many. As the article that started this thread points out, immigration is not one of the biggest parts of our national health care crisis.

In general the healthcare crisis (rising costs 46 million Americans uninsured) and the immigration argument should be treated separately.

Refusing preventative healthcare to people until they get critically ill is not smart. Treating disease early is very cheap, treating disease when it becomes critical is very expensive.

There is also the issue of public health. You don't want people without healthcare walking around with a communicable disease that a relatively cheap shot can cure. If a portion of a society can't get health care it makes everyone less healthy. Now this is a national security issue since in a biological terrorist attack-- people with access to healthcare will report for help quickly and will greatly lessen the spread.

If we magically kicked out all undocumented immigrants tomorrow, it wouldn't have much impact on our healthcare system. It may even hurt our public health since some areas, especially long term care, benefit from labor provided by undocumented immigrants.

To fix healthcare we need a way to make sure that everyone who lives and works in the US has access to decent, affordable care. Providing a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants working here so they can keep from being mistreated and have more opportunities to better themselves is a step in the right direction. Some "illegal" immigrants insure themselves right now. Obviously the more people who can do this, the better it is for the healthcare system.

Bashing illegal immigrants is very fashionable with conservatives right now. But usually the rhetoric coming from the right makes no sense.


If there is no impact, then how do you explain border towns having to close down hospitals because they couldn't afford to stay open?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 03:41 pm
Baldimo, Do you know why they closed? Details, please. It's not just because of "illegal immigrants." Look into federal/county/state and city mandates on patients walking through their doors for healthcare, the reimbursement rates, and other issues that has very little to do with the "illegal immigrant" issue.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 03:43 pm
BTW, a hospital closed in San Jose, California, recently. The Santa Clara County hospital is also running in the red, because they are mandated to care for all patients that walk into their hospital.

Kaiser hospital in Los Angeles removed a paitent, and literally put that patient onto the street. They are being sued.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 04:02 pm
Quote:

how do you explain border towns having to close down hospitals because they couldn't afford to stay open?


We have a failing health care system; with 46 million uninsured and costs rising annually at a rate far greater than inflation. Hospitals are fleeing many lower income locations.

This is a real problem when you think of the possibility of terrorist attack or natural disaster. We are losing hospital beds accross the country and in a large-scale emergency this will be a disaster.

The fact that there are so many uninsured people is a drain on hospitals. As I pointed out before, emergency room care for problems that could have been treated for much less money with basic preventitive care is a great waste of money.

We need to fix health care. This has very little to do with the immigration issue.

If we are serious about fixing our health care system it will help all hospitals (including the "border" ones you cite). Coming up with a comprehensive solution to immigration that includes a path to citizenship would be a good thing as well.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 04:18 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Quote:

how do you explain border towns having to close down hospitals because they couldn't afford to stay open?


We have a failing health care system; with 46 million uninsured and costs rising annually at a rate far greater than inflation. Hospitals are fleeing many lower income locations.

This is a real problem when you think of the possibility of terrorist attack or natural disaster. We are losing hospital beds accross the country and in a large-scale emergency this will be a disaster.

The fact that there are so many uninsured people is a drain on hospitals. As I pointed out before, emergency room care for problems that could have been treated for much less money with basic preventitive care is a great waste of money.

We need to fix health care. This has very little to do with the immigration issue.

If we are serious about fixing our health care system it will help all hospitals (including the "border" ones you cite). Coming up with a comprehensive solution to immigration that includes a path to citizenship would be a good thing as well.


Houston isn't exactly a low income community & they have had to close ERs.
That uninsured number has been nearly the same for several years. I remember when Hillary Care was first talked about the numbers were high, she didn't do anything about it & she was the co-president.
Illegal immigrants are a big part of the costs of health care & if you lived near the border, you might understand how huge this problem is. Expeectant mothers in a border town across from Brownsville, Tx on the Mexican side goes into labor, they call for an ambulance that then takes the woman to an ER in the US, guess who pays for that. YOU & I!!
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 04:31 pm
Quote:

xpeectant mothers in a border town across from Brownsville, Tx on the Mexican side goes into labor, they call for an ambulance that then takes the woman to an ER in the US


This sounds like an exaggeration typical of conservative immigrant bashing. Are you saying this happens all the time (i.e. there are no babies born in this "town"), or that it happened once? Can you even provide credible evidence that this even happened once?

I did a quick google search and came up with nothing credible.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 04:33 pm
The alternative to providing care for expectant mothers who come to the Emergency room, is to turn expectant mothers away from the Emergency room.

This will inevitably lead to the deaths of mothers and babies. Is this really an acceptable solution?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 04:39 pm
Quote: Houston isn't exactly a low income community & they have had to close ERs.


Some people just suffer from myopia. San Jose, California is one of the richest (highest average income in the US) cities in the US, and "they" have closed hospitals and emergency rooms.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 04:42 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Quote:

xpeectant mothers in a border town across from Brownsville, Tx on the Mexican side goes into labor, they call for an ambulance that then takes the woman to an ER in the US


This sounds like an exaggeration typical of conservative immigrant bashing. Are you saying this happens all the time (i.e. there are no babies born in this "town"), or that it happened once? Can you even provide credible evidence that this even happened once?

I did a quick google search and came up with nothing credible.

Just as i suspected, you don't have a clue about this problem & I will not waste my time explaining what should be simple enough for an elementary kid to undestand. What part of "ILLEGAL" do you not understand?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 04:55 pm
That is a cop out. I simply asked you to back up the claim you made about Brownsville TX.

For every immigrant who breaks the law, there is also an American breaking the law. Americans, from seniors who get low cost health care, to small farmers who are able to get the hard workers they need to keep afloat, to ordinary citizens who get less expensive produce, are benefitting from this.

The fact that an immigrant broke the law by crossing a border or overstaying a visa is is no reason for cruelty.

This is about compassion. These are human beings who aren't doing anything that we wouldn't do to provide for our families.

I am still waiting for your answer to this question. Do you really want to turn expectant mothers away from emergency rooms knowing that this will mean the deaths of mothers and babies?
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2006 05:11 pm
This sort of thing is not uncommon...

There was also a child from WA who inhabited a bed in BC Children's hospital for two years on the same basis - Cdn hospitals are forbidden to turn anyone away. The family didn't have health care, they couldn't get her into a WA hospital, so she came to ER and stayed 2 yrs. So far WA has refused to pay... so the Cdn people are paying for a few Americans to have Cdn health care.

In the long run, who cares? If we weren't paying for her, we'd be paying for one of ours... it's not like anyone actually goes without health care here. Is anyone actually advocating that child not get treated?

Sure the systems are flawed, but what isn't?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Illegal Immigrants not a burden to health care?
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.09 seconds on 05/06/2024 at 03:33:13