Muslim Cleric's remarks....

Steve

Your post reminds me of the film "Battle of Algiers". When a journalist asks the captured FLN commander "Isn't it cowardly to hide bombs in baskets". The commander replies, "Give us your airplanes sir, and you can have our baskets".

We concur that Western powers need oil and do bad things. How can you say that "we are not at war with Islam". In the past quarter of a century millions of muslims have been killed (only a fraction of them soldiers) precisely because of these bad things. The weapon Islamists use - a radicalised version of their faith - is the only tool they have to battle neo-cons. When bad things happen, they do have the right to fight back. Clerics of all faiths have been preaching fire and brimstone since the advent of civilisation. Sheikh Hilaly's comments were in that same ignorant vein. Was it really such a unique offense that merited personal comments from the PM and international media coverage? Whats the next step - thought crimes? This is crazy!!!

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Quote:

Was it really such a unique offense that merited personal comments from the PM and international media coverage? Whats the next step - thought crimes? This is crazy!!!

Varnished Angle: I point you in the direction of the Danish cartoons.

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zainabfaraaj wrote:

Well written Tarnished Angel.......if only the Wilsos of this world were also a bit more educated, tolerant and aware of facts, not only Australia but the World would be a better place to live in!

You can take your tolerance, and stick it where the sun don't shine. I don't give a flying f@ck what you sick religious nut jobs think. If you don't like it you're free to pack your bags and GET THE F@CK OUT. You preach tolerance while muslims murder and destroy everything they touch. Their nothing but worthless frigging pestilence.

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Tarnished Angel wrote:

Steve

Your post reminds me of the film "Battle of Algiers". When a journalist asks the captured FLN commander "Isn't it cowardly to hide bombs in baskets". The commander replies, "Give us your airplanes sir, and you can have our baskets".

We concur that Western powers need oil and do bad things. How can you say that "we are not at war with Islam". In the past quarter of a century millions of muslims have been killed (only a fraction of them soldiers) precisely because of these bad things. The weapon Islamists use - a radicalised version of their faith - is the only tool they have to battle neo-cons. When bad things happen, they do have the right to fight back. Clerics of all faiths have been preaching fire and brimstone since the advent of civilisation. Sheikh Hilaly's comments were in that same ignorant vein. Was it really such a unique offense that merited personal comments from the PM and international media coverage? Whats the next step - thought crimes? This is crazy!!!

You conveniently ignore the fact that when muslims don't have an outside influence to attack, then they attack each other. Even the different factions of that sick demented philosiphy kill each other. And neither side has the airplanes you speak of. That will be one huge benefit when the oil finally runs out. We'll be able to forget about these backward animals and let them hack each other to death.

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Whoa Adolf! Hold on there a sec. The correct fascism term is "bacilli" plural for bacteria and not "pestilence". By the way, whereabouts in Bigotsville are you actually from?

And why the rage? Do you just enjoy hating others? Does it make you feel like a man? I quote the great Thomas Jefferson: "I may disagree with what you say, but will defend till death your right to say it...." Enough said on this post (at least from my side). You can go on hating all you like. Thats what you deserve.

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Wilso: I don't consider, someone so bitter n hateful, worthy of a reply......but you need another outlet for your bitterness........why don't you go see a shrink, that might help......

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Tarnished Angel wrote:

Whoa Adolf! Hold on there a sec. The correct fascism term is "bacilli" plural for bacteria and not "pestilence". By the way, whereabouts in Bigotsville are you actually from?

And why the rage? Do you just enjoy hating others? Does it make you feel like a man? I quote the great Thomas Jefferson: "I may disagree with what you say, but will defend till death your right to say it...." Enough said on this post (at least from my side). You can go on hating all you like. Thats what you deserve.

Amen.

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Tarnished Angel wrote:

How can you say that "we are not at war with Islam".

How? I just typed it. And it happens to be a fact, unlike your assertion that "millions" of muslims have been killed in the last 25 years by Western powers. I challenge you to find any statement from any western or non muslim government that constitutes a direct attack on the religion of Islam. I repeat we are not at war with Islam. We are in a fight to secure and control the remaining oil, its got nothing to do with religion per se, except that one side (the Muslims) use religion as a weapon in that fight.

Personnally I think there should be an intellectual war against Islam. It should be exposed at every opportunity as intolerant delusional anti human and dangerous. But that is a battle of ideas not of bombs. Its also a battle the west has refrained from enjoining for too long imo- out of a misplaced respect for ideas deemed to be "religious" and therefore exempt from proper scrutiny.

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Steve/Wilso

Regardless of how abhorrable I find your postings, I don't hate you for your views. Without resorting to filthy or unreasonable language, I contend that the majority of muslims are just as peaceloving as their counterparts in other faiths or cultures. Violence and backwardness has historically not been a part of our religious psyche.

Could you perhaps accept the possibility that your views may be wrong. To be sure, Hitler's Nazi Party was even more vocal in its hatred for the Jewish and Roma people. All Americans now regret their witch-hunt during the red-scare of the 1950's. Most Americans feel ashamed of condoning slavery and segregation in their homeland for so long. The Turks deny the Armenian Holocaust because it shames them as a nation.

The prejudices and hatred of earlier generations are now considered an embarrassment. Is it impossible that the current wave of anti-muslim hysteria may be in the same vein and future generations regret their current bigotry.

In any case, the world has over one billion muslims. You can't wish them away or live in a utopia without them. We are all part of one brotherhood and machismo and loud blunderings are "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing". The world has seen anyone death and destruction without needing anyone to add to the din.

Best Wishes
Tarnished Angel

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Tarnished Angel wrote:

I contend that the majority of muslims are just as peaceloving as their counterparts in other faiths or cultures.

Garnished Angol:
Well said. Getting that message out with deed not word is the next step.

Yes I make fun with your screen name I hope you smile as I do. As is the way of many Australians I try to defuse tension with humour.

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what he says.

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granddad mousepad

I agree! A minority has given us a bad name largely through its ignorance, and the challenge for the majority is to change both negative muslim actions and non-muslim perceptions.

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Vanquished Angler:

I live in rural Victoria. A local organisation arranged for a visit from Emre and Fulya Celik. There was some initial opposition by ignorant people however the result was quite well worth while.

I wonder how an extended program would be recieved.
Emre and Fulya

A GROUP of Melbourne Muslims have thrown open their homes to potentially the whole city in a bid to break down barriers of ignorance and prejudice.

The Muslim holy month of Ramadan began this week, and the mostly Turkish members of the Australian Intercultural Society are inviting people to share iftar ("break-fast") dinners with them.

The Age

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You still dont understand where I'm coming from TA.

I dont hate anyone. I certainly dont hate you because you are a Muslim. If anything I feel sorry for you...and sorry if that sounds patronising.

But its time to resist bad ideas. And an idea which is grooming hundreds of susceptible young men in this country towards murderous self immolation is a bad idea.

Police and security services are stretched to near breaking point trying to cope with the thousands of young British men who have become radicalised by political Islam.

I would like to hear from Muslims that these ideas of martyrdom, of jihad, of doing the will of Allah by killing the kufr, are wrong, a heresy and un-Islamic. But it doesnt happen. Why not? There is of course a simple reason, the Koran is full of such exhortations to commit mayhem. Unfortuantely you have been brainwashed into believing that book is the perfect and final word of God, and this is why I say Islam is a bad idea. It must be challenged, not with bombs but with better ideas.

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Steve

Don't feel sorry for me.

Suicide is specifically mentioned in the Quran as a sin so the bad idea of self immolation is no educated persons idea of Islam. If anything, you can trace the history of suicide bombings to the Irgun and Haganah - two radical Jewish groups circa WW-1.

The Islamic term "jihad", which many Islamic scholars I have read would inform you, is a state of mind - a spirit of opposition to injustice. The violent streak that is causing such a great schism between Christianity and Islam is based primarily on the ignorance that colonialism leaves in its wake. It takes generations to overcome its evil effects. Ask any country in Africa, South America and nearly the entire muslim world. Poor (oil-rich) Angola, once a black christian paradise has only recently ended a 30-year civil war which destroyed the infrastructure and any hope for generations to come. Read the history of that war, the nation and the roles played by international players. Neo-colonialism and oil politics are not only impeding the process of healing and the maturing of Islamic (and other) societies, they are actually causing even greater havoc whose harvests future generations will reap. Who do you expect the illiterate masses to follow in such a situation - literate professors or extremist demagogues like Bin Laden, Al-Sadr. Chavez, Mugabe and so many others.

Like Christian, Jewish and Hindu societies, Islamic societies have done great harm and good. Lets move on and look at the root social causes. Future generations may feel sorry for us for making sweeping, illiterate statement, don't you think?

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Tarnished Angel wrote:

Suicide is specifically mentioned in the Quran as a sin so the bad idea of self immolation is no educated persons idea of Islam.
Steve 41oo wrote:
So those grooming Muslims for suicide missions have to not only convince them that killing themselves is good for them, but that it is not against the Koran. Sorry I dont believe you. The bombers think they are jihadists, more righteous than average and will be rewarded by Allah in paradise. Its Islam that motivates them.

If anything, you can trace the history of suicide bombings to the Irgun and Haganah - two radical Jewish groups circa WW-1.
Steve 41oo wrote:
They did not use the technique and they operated during the British mandate period 1920-48. So here you are factually incorrect.

The Islamic term "jihad", which many Islamic scholars I have read would inform you, is a state of mind - a spirit of opposition to injustice. The violent streak that is causing such a great schism between Christianity and Islam is based primarily on the ignorance that colonialism leaves in its wake. It takes generations to overcome its evil effects.
Steve 41oo wrote:
I agree its a state of mind. We call it brainwashing. Once the subject has been indoctrinated with fanatical political Islamism, its better more deadly and cheaper than any guided missile. As for oppostion to injustice in the wake of colonialism, what colonial oppression turns 4 lads from Leeds who loved football fish and chips and cricket into human bombs? Was it British imperial troops abusing them and treating them like dirt? In Leeds in 2005. give me abreak

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Its always heartening to find someone who's mind is made up and who has the answer to all the mysteries of the world....personally I'm not that perfect.

Read the definition of Jihad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

Irgun (I'm not anti-semitic by the way and detest Ahmedinejad's idiotic remarks)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

Haganah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

Islam teaches followers to pray 5 times a day (a ritual that emphasises humility, hygiene and equality of all men) and creates a brotherhood. If Muslims in Palestine suffer, others all over the world will identify with their pain. Islam does not encourage self-centered "laissez-faire" behaviour unfortunately.

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In Islam, a person who committs suicide cannot enter Jannat'(Heaven).... So you can imagine the kind of brainwashing being done of innocent young people in the name of our religion!

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You amaze me TA. You post links about the Haganah and Irgun that support my[/i] assertion that they did not use suicide bombing....and of course did not operate in WW1 as you said. (Did you read your own link?)

then regarding Jihad which I know is both an internal struggle and a military fight a very long article

first paragraph

Quote:

Jihad, sometimes spelled Jahad, Jehad, Jihaad, Djehad, Jawwad, or Cihad, (Arabic: جهاد‎ ǧihād) is an Islamic term, from the Arabic root ǧhd ("to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle"), which although to some connotes an inward 'spiritual' struggle refers to the struggle to mobilize the energies and capabilities of Islamic individuals and groups in the greater service of the ummah, or nation of Islam, in military terms through fatah or conquest.

my italics

If it was an internal struggle against evil then I would have no problem with jihadists. But the lads from Leeds didn't interpret it that way did they?

As for your aside that I must be perfect and my mind is closed, I dont use the pretentious style user name you do, and I can assure you I am always interested in facts supportive of or challenging my own position.

Two sayings spring to mind

from Carl Sagan

"Keep an open mind but not so open that your brains fall out"

another not sure from where

"Opinions are interesting but facts are sacred"

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and I've just read on the BBC

Quote:

UK faces 'wave' of terror plots

Britain faces a "wave" of terrorist plots, prepared strategically and directed from abroad by al-Qaeda, Home Secretary John Reid has told the BBC.

He agreed with MI5 head Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller's assessment that there were 30 major plots, and said an attack in the UK was "highly likely".

New counter-terrorism laws are expected to be among a raft of Home Office Bills at the heart of the Queen's Speech.

Counter-terrorism officials have said Britain is al-Qaeda's top target.

Do you support the establishment of a Caliphate TA? Is sharia'a law superior to British law? Are you associated with Hizb ut Tahrir...which is legall in the UK?

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Muslim Cleric's remarks....

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