When Does Life Begin?

It may seem ridiculous to ask this but, what choices can ever be made by one who is dead?

A pregnant woman who in almost all cases was never deprived of a right to choose before becoming pregnant.

Whereas, another human life is denied any choice at all forever because the woman made an "unwise" choice or a "bad" choice but a choice nonetheless right?.

Pro choice? What's pro choice about that?

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Diest TKO wrote:

Bartikus wrote:

Abortion is killing a human!

Not all forms of death are synonomous with murder.

Murder != Suicide != Accidental Death != Abortion;

Asking a doctor if he/she is for saving lives and is agaist ending lives does not mean they oppose abortion. There are plently of medical professionals across many diciplines that support the right of a mother to chose above other concerns.

T
K
O

I am pretty sure they support it because it puts money in their pocket too. No other reason for supporting murdering children in the womb at the unbelievable rate it is happening at except that like sueing people - it has become a money maker. Doctors support the women's right to choose because they are making good money at it.

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Not all doctors perform abortions, just like not all doctors perform brain surgery etc.

It's not like the only doctors who support abortion are the doctors that do them. Don't be obtuse.

Quote:

Doctors support the women's right to choose because they are making good money at it.

I'm sure that Dentists and Spinal surgeons make LOTS of money off abortions.

Tunnel vision
K
Open your brain.

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Bartikus wrote:

Murder-Suicide-Accidental Death....

Suicide
1 a: the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind.

Accidental Death
2 death by accidental means usually sudden and violent; also : death occurring as the unforeseen and chance result of an intended act

Murder
3 the crime of killing another human life.

Which of the three does abortion most resemble?

Abortion is abortion. If I were to ask you the same thing about natural death, you'd probably say that accidental death "RESEMBLED" it the most, but that resemblance does not make the two one and the same does it? The two have very difference impacts / consequences / etc. The same is for abortion when related to the others. You can draw all the lines to Murder all you want, but you can't fit a diamond shaped peg in a square hole, even if they both have four sides.

Bartikus wrote:

"Asking a doctor if he/she is for saving lives and is agaist ending lives does not mean they oppose abortion."

Nor does it mean they favor abortion or think it's NOT an act of killing another human life.....

It's a good thing I didn't make that assertion. I'm fully aware that there are medical professionals that do not support abortion.

Bartikus wrote:

"There are plently of medical professionals across many diciplines that support the right of a mother to chose above other concerns."

Define plenty...How many is plenty? Where can this info be found?

Plenty for what? What mother? Mother of what? Say it.....

I don't need to define plenty.

Bartikus wrote:

What other concerns are there for a woman who chooses to abort?

you misunderstand. "Other concerns" refers to the concerns of people who are NOT the mother: people like yourself. Other concerns are typically the concerns of people whose bussiness it is NOT.

T
K
O

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Bartikus wrote:

It may seem ridiculous to ask this but, what choices can ever be made by one who is dead?

A pregnant woman who in almost all cases was never deprived of a right to choose before becoming pregnant.

Whereas, another human life is denied any choice at all forever because the woman made an "unwise" choice or a "bad" choice but a choice nonetheless right?.

Pro choice? What's pro choice about that?

Honestly, when I was younger I used to ponder the same question when thinking about this topic. however when presented all of the evidence before me, and witnessing firsthand the effects of both CHOICES, I realized that this arguement is quickly trumped by everything else to concider.

T
K
O

P.s. - In your rant about unwise and poor choices, you made no meantion of the man involved. shame on you.

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Bartikus: Pro choice? What's pro choice about that?

Pro-choice is about letting the woman decide for herself what's in the best interest for all concerned. Pro-lifers only care for the fetus, and ignore the baby after its birth. They don't support it in any way after the birth. They love to call it "baby killers," but ignore the legal definitions. They also seem to ignore all the "babies" already living who are suffering from lack of food and shelter. The fetus has more importance to them based on their religious belief while doing very little to nothing to advocate for the children of this world who are suffering. It's called the hypocrisy of religion.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Pro-lifers only care for the fetus, and ignore the baby after its birth. They don't support it in any way after the birth...

All Pro-lifers who agree with this assertion - please raise their hand! Shocked

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WOW! Over 99 percent raised their hands. ROFL

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cicerone imposter wrote:

WOW! Over 99 percent raised their hands. ROFL

Only in your world. Rolling Eyes

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Imposter,

You use fuzzy math.

Laughing

Tell us how many of the 6 or 7 vacations you take each year that you are going to forego in order to feed hungry children, Imposter.

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real life wrote:

Imposter,

You use fuzzy math.

Tell us how many of the 6 or 7 vacations you take each year that you are going to forego in order to feed hungry children, Imposter.

real, Mine is a realistic, logical, life. I don't try to influence what a woman chooses to do concerning her fetus, nor do I ignore the living - but in a well-balanced manner. I contribute to Second Harvest Food Bank and Habitat for Humanities - my two favorite charities. Second Harvest Food Bank feeds those at home in need, and Habitat for Humanities help build homes all over the world without regard to race, color, creed, religion, or any other foolish and arbitrary groupings.

My wife had her tubes tied after two children, but we did try to adopt a baby girl in my early thirties, but it was not to be.

My wife and I both worked hard and saved our money to enjoy our retirement years. I don't feel any guilt about the manner of our lifestyle - one iota. It's a great life!

We don't stick our nose in where it doesn't belong.

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Other than accusing others (without a shred of evidence) of not caring about kids, you mean?

Funny how, as a moral relativist, you tell us that you apply your standard of right and wrong to nobody but yourself.

But as a matter of practice, it is well known and evidenced on this forum that you are a constant scold -- preaching to others of their faults.

If you truly believe that notions of right and wrong are purely personal matters, why don't you act like it?

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Because people like you force me to expose your hypocrisy.

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I believe[/i][/u] that morals apply to all equally, and I act [/i][/u] and speak accordingly. No hypocrisy.

You profess to believe[/i][/u] that morals are determined individually and are the concern of nobody but the individual himself. But you act [/i][/u] as if the morality of others (including their adherence to their own standard) were your concern. That's hypocritical , is it not?

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Not when you and your kind tries to change the laws of our land to overthrow Roe vs Wade. It's my concern and issue, because it's political.

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real: "...and I act and speak accordingly. No hypocrisy."

No, you do speak according to the fundamentals of hypocrisy. You wish to deny any woman the right to choose her own life decisions. That's intrusion into another person's life who you do not even know or care about. My position is to let all women decide for themselves what decision they wish to make. Big difference.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Not when you and your kind tries to change the laws of our land to overthrow Roe vs Wade. It's my concern and issue, because it's political.

So it's ok to be a hypocrite if your motive is winning politically?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

real: "...and I act and speak accordingly. No hypocrisy."

No, you do speak according to the fundamentals of hypocrisy. You wish to deny any woman the right to choose her own life decisions. That's intrusion into another person's life who you do not even know or care about. My position is to let all women decide for themselves what decision they wish to make. Big difference.

A woman should choose HER OWN LIFE decisions. That's not what we are even talking about here.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

real: "...and I act and speak accordingly. No hypocrisy."

No, you do speak according to the fundamentals of hypocrisy. You wish to deny any woman the right to choose her own life decisions. That's intrusion into another person's life who you do not even know or care about. My position is to let all women decide for themselves what decision they wish to make. Big difference.

You obviously don't understand that hypocrisy means saying one thing and doing another.

I speak and act consistently with my beliefs.

You do not, because you claim that everybody else's behavior and beliefs are NOT your business --- as you, at the same time, meddle.

If behavior is private, why are you telling others that they are wrong, Imposter?

Or does a political goal make your hypocrisy acceptable?

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Bartikus wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
real: "...and I act and speak accordingly. No hypocrisy."

No, you do speak according to the fundamentals of hypocrisy. You wish to deny any woman the right to choose her own life decisions. That's intrusion into another person's life who you do not even know or care about. My position is to let all women decide for themselves what decision they wish to make. Big difference.

A woman should choose HER OWN LIFE decisions. That's not what we are even talking about here.

Yes it is! Does her decision affect you in any way before or after the birth?

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