real life wrote:Your tax dollars hard at work in the government schools...
Quote:Public School Students in New Hampshire Taken to Abortion Center
Manchester, NH (LifeNews.com) -- Parents in New Hampshire are outraged after learning that the YMCA, in partnership with a local school district, took a group of junior high school students to Planned Parenthood abortion business. (emphases added)
No, you didn't, but the article you posted (without comment or correction), said so. Therefore, we'll just have to assume that you were willing to let a false statement stand for sake of the hype factor.
Setanta wrote: i wonder if this means that "real life" claims to be a resident of New Hampshire?
Nope. My sister lived in Londonderry for a few years, but I don't and haven't ever resided there.
So neither you nor i are paying any tax dollars to support a school system from which a handful of students went on a city tour of agencies which included a stop at a Planned Parenthood office, which is neither an "abortion center," nor an "abortion business," as your quoted article falsely claims.
Setanta wrote:real life wrote:Your tax dollars hard at work in the government schools...
Quote:Public School Students in New Hampshire Taken to Abortion Center
Manchester, NH (LifeNews.com) -- Parents in New Hampshire are outraged after learning that the YMCA, in partnership with a local school district, took a group of junior high school students to Planned Parenthood abortion business. (emphases added)
No, you didn't, but the article you posted (without comment or correction), said so. Therefore, we'll just have to assume that you were willing to let a false statement stand for sake of the hype factor.
Where does the article say they were taken to a clinic? It doesn't.
That PP is in the business of counseling for and referring for abortion is unquestioned. And they are in the business of providing abortions, but not at that location.
So , to deny that PP is in the 'abortion business' is, at worst, false or at least very misleading.
Setanta wrote:So neither you nor i are paying any tax dollars to support a school system from which a handful of students went on a city tour of agencies which included a stop at a Planned Parenthood office, which is neither an "abortion center," nor an "abortion business," as your quoted article falsely claims.
You don't pay taxes, Setanta?
I do.
To any IRS agent on A2K:
I pay a lot. Believe me, I'm paid up, too.
btw I like the Red Green sig. Funny show. I like his inventions , like the 'Ford of the rings'.
And even if it had been a clinic offering abortions, which it apparently was not, SO WHAT?
Birth control is constitutional and legal. Abortion is constitutional and legal.
Anybody who thinks that middle school students don't get pregnant, or get others pregnant, is living in a dream world. Last I heard, the USA was far and away the leader amongst industrial countries in teen pregnancies. Since these were, according to the article, largely at-risk kids, it seems to me to be one of the places they should be exposed to. Congrats to the NH school district which had the good sense to do it, and boo to them for the post-visit wimping out they've done when exposed to the predictable troglodyte hooha.
username wrote:And even if it had been a clinic offering abortions, which it apparently was not, SO WHAT?
Birth control is constitutional and legal. Abortion is constitutional and legal.
Anybody who thinks that middle school students don't get pregnant, or get others pregnant, is living in a dream world. Last I heard, the USA was far and away the leader amongst industrial countries in teen pregnancies. Since these were, according to the article, largely at-risk kids, it seems to me to be one of the places they should be exposed to. Congrats to the NH school district which had the good sense to do it, and boo to them for the post-visit wimping out they've done when exposed to the predictable troglodyte hooha.
What a weak response.
Taverns are constitutional and legal, too. Do you think it would be appropriate to take 7th graders on a field trip there?
Other examples of constitutional and legal establishments: GLAAD meetings, mental hospitals, bordellos (in NV), mosques, x-rated theatres.
Would you like to make a case for any of these being appropriate for a 7th grade field trip?
Is 'constitutional and legal' a sufficient criteria for a trip like this?
Umm...nope.
Sure. The Presbyterian church I grew up in in MI took middle school and HS students to other faith's buildings, and that was the 50's. There were no mosques there then, but I'm pretty sure that had there been we'd have gone. And rightly so. GLAAD meetings, sure. Kids wonder what their sexuality means in middle school. If they want to know about gays and lesbians, of course. Mental hospitals--my younger sister and her friends were what would today be called candy stripers in a local mental hospital when they were middle school, and that again was MI in the 50s. Why are you so afraid to expose kids to real life, real life?
real life wrote:Setanta wrote:real life wrote:Your tax dollars hard at work in the government schools...
Quote:Public School Students in New Hampshire Taken to Abortion Center
Manchester, NH (LifeNews.com) -- Parents in New Hampshire are outraged after learning that the YMCA, in partnership with a local school district, took a group of junior high school students to Planned Parenthood abortion business. (emphases added)
No, you didn't, but the article you posted (without comment or correction), said so. Therefore, we'll just have to assume that you were willing to let a false statement stand for sake of the hype factor.
Where does the article say they were taken to a clinic? It doesn't.
That PP is in the business of counseling for and referring for abortion is unquestioned. And they are in the business of providing abortions, but not at that location.
So , to deny that PP is in the 'abortion business' is, at worst, false or at least very misleading.
The Better Business Bureau's Wise Giving Alliance, at "Give-dot-org," writes:
Quote:Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) meets the
20 Standards for Charity Accountability. (the blue text at left is an active link to the page listing the BBB's standards for charitable accountability)
Furthermore, the BBB's "Give-dot-org" site states:
Quote:This organization is tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. It is eligible to receive contributions deductible as charitable donations for federal income tax purposes.
Source.
Therefore, to describe Planned Parenthood as a business is, at worst, false or at least very misleading.
Clearly, when no abortions are performed at the Manchester site, to refer to it as an abortion center is, at worst, false or at least very misleading.
real life wrote:Setanta wrote:So neither you nor i are paying any tax dollars to support a school system from which a handful of students went on a city tour of agencies which included a stop at a Planned Parenthood office, which is neither an "abortion center," nor an "abortion business," as your quoted article falsely claims.
You don't pay taxes, Setanta?
I do.
To any IRS agent on A2K:
I pay a lot. Believe me, I'm paid up, too.
I don't pay taxes in New Hampshire, neither county nor state taxes. Don't try to give me a line about Federal funds either, the worst thing about that lying little rat in the White House's "no child left behind" song and dance is that he's never kept his promise to fund the program. Schools get limited Federal funds for very restricted purposes, which does not include field trips. Additionally, this trip was organized by the YMCA. My tax dollars don't support the YMCA, and neither do yours.
Setanta wrote:real life wrote:Setanta wrote:real life wrote:Your tax dollars hard at work in the government schools...
Quote:Public School Students in New Hampshire Taken to Abortion Center
Manchester, NH (LifeNews.com) -- Parents in New Hampshire are outraged after learning that the YMCA, in partnership with a local school district, took a group of junior high school students to Planned Parenthood abortion business. (emphases added)
No, you didn't, but the article you posted (without comment or correction), said so. Therefore, we'll just have to assume that you were willing to let a false statement stand for sake of the hype factor.
Where does the article say they were taken to a clinic? It doesn't.
That PP is in the business of counseling for and referring for abortion is unquestioned. And they are in the business of providing abortions, but not at that location.
So , to deny that PP is in the 'abortion business' is, at worst, false or at least very misleading.
The Better Business Bureau's Wise Giving Alliance, at "Give-dot-org," writes:
Quote:Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA) meets the
20 Standards for Charity Accountability. (the blue text at left is an active link to the page listing the BBB's standards for charitable accountability)
Furthermore, the BBB's "Give-dot-org" site states:
Quote:This organization is tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. It is eligible to receive contributions deductible as charitable donations for federal income tax purposes.
Source.
Therefore, to describe Planned Parenthood as a business is, at worst, false or at least very misleading.
Clearly, when no abortions are performed at the Manchester site, to refer to it as an abortion center is, at worst, false or at least very misleading.
That fact that PP is registered as a nonprofit doesn't change the fact that they are in the business of providing abortions, just as government schools are in the business of providing education (or so I'm told).
Money is exchanged or received for a service rendered, is it not?
If a client can afford it--however, you know as well as i do, although despite your mealy-mouthed religious virtues you will never admit it, that the clear intent of the articles you cited, and your clear intent, was to portray the Planned Parenthood office to which the YMCA (not the school district itself) took the students as a place where abortions are performed.
All you done since that was pointed out to you is to attempt to quibble about definitions in an attempt to hold yourself blameless for the deceit you attempted to practice. Which is certainly not very Christian of you.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
Setanta wrote:real life wrote:Setanta wrote:So neither you nor i are paying any tax dollars to support a school system from which a handful of students went on a city tour of agencies which included a stop at a Planned Parenthood office, which is neither an "abortion center," nor an "abortion business," as your quoted article falsely claims.
You don't pay taxes, Setanta?
I do.
To any IRS agent on A2K:
I pay a lot. Believe me, I'm paid up, too.
I don't pay taxes in New Hampshire, neither county nor state taxes. Don't try to give me a line about Federal funds either, the worst thing about that lying little rat in the White House's "no child left behind" song and dance is that he's never kept his promise to fund the program. Schools get limited Federal funds for very restricted purposes, which does not include field trips. Additionally, this trip was organized by the YMCA. My tax dollars don't support the YMCA, and neither do yours.
The program is a partnership between YMCA and the school district which is why the school district is investigating the matter and trying to cover their bum.
Quote:School Board Upset Over Clinic Visit
Jun 13, 10:57 AM (ET)
MANCHESTER, N.H. (AP) - The city school board ordered an investigation into an after-school program run by the YMCA in which some middle school students were taken to visit a Planned Parenthood clinic.
New Hampshire Right to Life, an abortion opponent, is now asking for equal time with the seventh and eighth grade students, as well.
The visit was part of the YMCA's STAY program, for students considered at risk of dropping out of school, abusing drugs or getting into trouble with the law. The trip, a week ago, was part of a tour of several social service agencies in the city, to show the students where they could go for support and recreation during the summer.
The school board voted Tuesday to investigate how the decision to visit Planned Parenthood was made and determine whether anyone should be disciplined.
The Planned Parenthood educator who met with the students, Anne Johnson, said she never mentioned abortion, but Darlene Pawlik, New Hampshire Right to Life, said the subject was obvious.
"Everybody knows Planned Parenthood performs abortions," she said. "There were protesters outside with signs saying 'Babies killed here.' There's no mistaking that (the students) have already been exposed to the issue."
Schools Superintendent Michael Ludwell said he would need to see a formal, written request from New Hampshire Right to Life before deciding whether a representative would meet with the students.
Ludwell said he hoped to finish an internal investigation by the end of the week and meet with the YMCA president to draw up new program guidelines, but overall he defended the STAY program.
"We have had a very long and, prior to this incident, a very positive relationship," he said.
Setanta wrote:If a client can afford it
Have you any evidence that PP performs abortions for free (i.e. receiving no renumeration at all, neither from private nor government source, nor any other)?
Setanta wrote: the clear intent of the articles you cited, and your clear intent, was to portray the Planned Parenthood office to which the YMCA (not the school district itself) took the students as a place where abortions are performed.
Show where you think I said this was a clinic.
real life wrote:
Taverns are constitutional and legal, too. Do you think it would be appropriate to take 7th graders on a field trip there?
Other examples of constitutional and legal establishments: GLAAD meetings, mental hospitals, bordellos (in NV), mosques, x-rated theatres.
did you seriously just lump in mosques with x-rated theaters and bordellos? I guess I'll add churches to that list too then since you want to brand.
BTW, set is right, your article is propaganda, and is taylored to mislead.
real life wrote:Show where you think I said this was a clinic.
It doesn't matter to the deceit you are attempting to practice whether or not it is called a clinic. The impression you, and the author of the slanted piece you presented, want to create is that these school children were taken to a place where abortions are performed.
You may dance to your heart's content, it won't alter your obvious intent.
Not sure why we refer to an organization with a $58,000,000 annual surplus ('05-'06 FY) as a 'non-profit'.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/Annual_report.pdf
Setanta wrote:real life wrote:Show where you think I said this was a clinic.
It doesn't matter to the deceit you are attempting to practice whether or not it is called a clinic. The impression you, and the author of the slanted piece you presented, want to create is that these school children were taken to a place where abortions are performed.
You may dance to your heart's content, it won't alter your obvious intent.
It sounds like you assumed that a clinic was what I described, but after posting your outrage you went back and checked and found that it wasn't.
The field trip took public school students to PP, an organization which is in the abortion business. They perform abortions at some locations and refer for abortions at other locations, including the office the children visited.
If, instead of visiting a pro-abortion organization , the field trip instead had taken the public schoolers to a crisis pregnancy center run by a pro-life group which counsels against abortion, would you consider that to be appropriate ?
Quote:If, instead of visiting a pro-abortion organization , the field trip instead had taken the public schoolers to a crisis pregnancy center run by a pro-life group which counsels against abortion, would you consider that to be appropriate ?
I think we've been down this road already. Crisis centers use lies to manipulate people. No, I would not send a child there.
However, after some thought I will give a little to the arguement that it was inapropriate. This is BTW knowing in full that the PP was not the only stop on the many visits the group went on. I think that PP represents many things other than the pro-choice/pro-life arguement. I think that PP has a lot of valuable facts for people prior to being pregnant about sexual health etc. The part where I give a bit to the inapropriateness of the visit is that that kind of information is better to be given IN a school, be it by the nurse, or a guest presenter. This is allows more control and will ultimately be less contravercial.
One must ask themselves why the children were brought there in the first place, and then compare it to other means to deliver the same information.
Personally, I'm mad that they did it this way, because now the school board will be less firm about educating children about sexual health issues.
The onset of puberty has gotten earlier and earlier over the last century. Now the public health statistics show that in girls it's often starting between eight and ten. Average age of menarche is around 13. Which means middle school kids need all the information they can get, and the best available information, not religiously biased information (if churches want to give out their own information, fine, but not in schools, and not as the only source of information, which the failed Bush administration seems to be busily promoting). Which means, yes, a visit to Planned Parenthood is EXACTLY what middle school kids should get--along with apparently the many other social service agencies they visited--this was, after all, a field trip to show the kids some of the activities they could do to help the community.
Thank you, rl, for providing the information that abortion services constitute only 3% (yes, 3%) of the services that Planned Parenthood provides.
And yes, rl, I think a visit to a pro-life pregnancy center as well would not be inappropriate. Remember, I said ALL the information they can get. Although like Diest I have serious reservations about the information the anti-abortion folks provide and the scientific accuracy of it. From what I have heard and read, the factual basis is often pretty shaky.
These kids were specifically said to be at risk. They NEED the information, whether or not you happen to think it's appropriate. They have the biological capability and, gods know, the hormonal proddings that make it imperative they get it, even if they're 12, or 13, or 14.
