When Does Life Begin?

Do you support partial birth abortion, Chumly?

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Why do you presume I would either support or not support it?
When does real life end?

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i pretty much dont remember anything until my first day at kindergarden.

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Chumly wrote:

real life wrote:
Do you support partial birth abortion, Chumly?

Why do you presume I would either support or not support it?

I didn't presume.

I asked a question.

If you are afraid to answer the question, simply say so. (It is a trick question, as you've probably noted, so I don't really expect you will give a straightforward answer.)

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real life wrote:

Chumly wrote:
real life wrote:
Do you support partial birth abortion, Chumly?

Why do you presume I would either support or not support it?

real wrote:
I didn't presume.

I asked a question.

If you are afraid to answer the question, simply say so. (It is a trick question, as you've probably noted, so I don't really expect you will give a straightforward answer.)

Sorry, it's not even a "trick" question. It's a stupid one. It presumes somebody other than the woman or doctor knows what's best. the questioner presumes wrongly, that he's the only one with the correct answer. STUPID!

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Hi CI,

Do you have any evidence that there is a substantial medical difference in the baby 2 minutes before birth, as opposed to 2 minutes after?

From a medical standpoint, how can you maintain that the baby ISN'T a living human being a few minutes before birth, but IS living human being after?

Remember, you said it was the doctor's[/u][/b] view that counts, not the politician's , so don't cop out by citing the arbitrary legal line that has been drawn in the sand. Let's talk medical status.

Does the baby gain any significant brain capabilities in the two minutes prior to birth that would prove that he/she has attained a medical status that wasn't existing a few minutes previous?

Justify partial birth abortion from that standpoint.

Unless all you can do in response is give yet another of your 'you guys are stupid' replies.

In that case don't bother.

It's apparent that your pro-abortion argument is bereft of medical support.

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real life wrote:

Chumly wrote:
real life wrote:
Do you support partial birth abortion, Chumly?

Why do you presume I would either support or not support it?

I didn't presume.

I asked a question.

If you are afraid to answer the question, simply say so. (It is a trick question, as you've probably noted, so I don't really expect you will give a straightforward answer.)

You'll have to make an argument that it's my business to support or not support it.

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real life wrote:

Chumly wrote:
real life wrote:
Do you support partial birth abortion, Chumly?

Why do you presume I would either support or not support it?

I didn't presume.

I asked a question.

If you are afraid to answer the question, simply say so. (It is a trick question, as you've probably noted, so I don't really expect you will give a straightforward answer.)

You'll have to make an argument that it is should be my business to support or not support it, otherwise your presumption inherent in the question has not been shown to have grounds.

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Quote:

If you are afraid to answer the question, simply say so. (It is a trick question, as you've probably noted, so I don't really expect you will give a straightforward answer.)

The only person affraid to answer questions here is RL.

Behold.

RL, why do you think that the government should have ability to make choices for other people?

So begins the coward's song of silence.

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If I might take the devil's advocate in part, the government "needs" to have to ability to makes choices for other people in the interests of "protecting" society as a whole and individuals from themselves.

I am not saying necessarily that I advocate this viewpoint in all ways at all limes (public nudity comes to mind as does a woman's right to choose) but I think it can be successfully argued that the police, the courts, the military and the laws of the land can and do represent the government's interests, and as such the government does act as protectorate for better or worse.

If I had been asked "do you have a stance on partial birth abortion?" and "if so how do you support this stance?" then I would answered I have no stance and it's not my business. If real life's question to me had been phrased that way, it would not have the presumption inherent in his original question.

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That's the bottom line; it's none of my business what the woman and doctor decides. Real, on the other hand, wants to use his personal religious' bias against people he doesn't even know or care about. That there are millions of babies already alive and starving is not impprtant to him, but "his" decision not to abort is. The "value" he puts on life is hypocritical to the max.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

That's the bottom line; it's none of my business what the woman and doctor decides. Real, on the other hand, wants to use his personal religious' bias against people he doesn't even know or care about. That there are millions of babies already alive and starving is not impprtant to him, but "his" decision not to abort is. The "value" he puts on life is hypocritical to the max.

Unfortunately for you, CI, I've not put forward ANY religious arguments, only medical ones.

So your attempt to blow this off fails badly.

One need not be a religious person to understand that the unborn is a living human being.

Can you offer ANY medical evidence that the unborn is NOT a living human being?

You support abortion up to the point of birth, CI.

What medical difference is there in the baby's brain 2 minutes prior to birth, as compared with 2 minutes after?

On what medical basis do you claim that a living human being is not being killed in a partial birth abortion?

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Chumly wrote:

If I might take the devil's advocate in part, the government "needs" to have to ability to makes choices for other people in the interests of "protecting" society as a whole and individuals from themselves.

I am not saying necessarily that I advocate this viewpoint in all ways at all limes (public nudity comes to mind as does a woman's right to choose) but I think it can be successfully argued that the police, the courts, the military and the laws of the land can and do represent the government's interests, and as such the government does act as protectorate for better or worse.

You are correct. The government allows or disallows all kinds of choices for us every day.

Chumly wrote:

If I had been asked "do you have a stance on partial birth abortion?" and "if so how do you support this stance?" then I would answered I have no stance and it's not my business. If real life's question to me had been phrased that way, it would not have the presumption inherent in his original question.

If you have 'no stance' then by default you support whatever the status quo is, whether abortion is legal or illegal at any given point.

Since you seem to be an intelligent person, I find it hard to believe your claim that you have real position on this question, but as I said , I didn't expect that you'd be able to give a straightforward answer and you didn't.

So, when do you think that the unborn becomes a living human being, and thus deserving of the protection of society that you spoke of?

(Caution: this is another trick question, Chumly. Beware. You might be better off not answering this one as well. )

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real life wrote:

If you have 'no stance' then by default you support whatever the status quo is, whether abortion is legal or illegal at any given point.

Nope because that is not what I said, I said "I have no stance and it's not my business."

real life wrote:

Since you seem to be an intelligent person, I find it hard to believe your claim that you have real position on this question, but as I said , I didn't expect that you'd be able to give a straightforward answer and you didn't.

As discussed it's not my business and as such, I'll leave that decision to the woman in question.

real life wrote:

So, when do you think that the unborn becomes a living human being, and thus deserving of the protection of society that you spoke of?

Straw man, I said nothing about anyone "deserving" the protection of society I simply said "the government does act as protectorate for better or worse."

What exactly do you mean by "human being"?
Can an entity qualify as a human being if it is intelligent?
Can an entity qualify as a human being if it is self-aware?
Can an entity qualify as a human being if it is not intelligent?
Can an entity qualify as a human being if it is not self-aware?

Why does it appear to be so important to you to have a definitive temporal delineation for your as-of-yet undefined term "human being"?

When precisely is a human being not a human being?

What do you (presumably) see as the problem given that there is no consensus as to this temporal viewpoint?

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real, It doesn't matter to me "when" a fetus is viable; it's none of my business what the woman decides.

You say/claim you base your opinion on medical knowledge. Is that so? Do you follow each woman's decision based on her doctor's opinion? Since you base your knowledge on medicine, how much medical training do you have? When and how do "you" decide what's best for each woman?

Naw, you're knowledge about medicine is zilch. You base your opinion on your religious' beliefs - same-o, same-o Bush. You fail the stink test.

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Right, since the government (presumably) represents the people, and I (presumably) am the people (or more precisely one thereof) it's not the government's business either.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

real, It doesn't matter to me "when" a fetus is viable; it's none of my business what the woman decides. ..

Then why are you interjecting your opinion on here?

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baddog, I'm answering real's question. Ya gotta problem wid that?

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I usually don't row my boat in these threads. But has anyone considered that it may be most appropriate to wait until the fetus is old enough to make the decision for himself/herself?

Like 18 or so?

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By your logic then I would expect you to have no problems should that same individual decide not to continue with his life, at whatever age that individual deems himself able to make said decision.

Naturally of course you initial argument contains the presumption that simply because something can become a human life that it must be allowed to do so and by that same presumption all sperm and all eggs must be allowed the same "privileges".

Howz the rowin' goin'?

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