When Does Life Begin?

southernpride wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:

southernpride wrote:

TKO,

What's a vegen?

If I defined it as a super-vegitarian, I don't think that the vegan community would object.

You made a statement that killing is killing independant of what animal it is. This effectively equates the local butcher to the doctor performing the abortion.

T
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O

Well I didn't mean to say what you said. I just don't think that we should kill the young ones that are still inside our wives.

And single females?

T
K
O?

...Well now thats whole other story isn't it? If single folks decide to have sex they should be responsible enough to use protection and know the risk that they're taking. Birth control pills, condoms, and other ways of birth control are darn fool proof today. If used responsibly, pregnancy should not happen. Abortion is just another example of people doing what they want to do and not wanting to live with the concequences if things don't go their way. Here's how they should look at it. "If you're going to have sex, YOU KNOW THAT YOU MIGHT END UP PREGNANT so think about that before you hop in the sack. It ain't that hard...

Diest TKO wrote:

southernpride wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:

southernpride wrote:

TKO,

What's a vegen?

If I defined it as a super-vegitarian, I don't think that the vegan community would object.

You made a statement that killing is killing independant of what animal it is. This effectively equates the local butcher to the doctor performing the abortion.

T
K
O

Well I didn't mean to say what you said. I just don't think that we should kill the young ones that are still inside our wives.

And single females?

T
K
O?

Well now thats whole other story isn't it? If single folks decide to have sex they should be responsible enough to use protection and know the risk that they're taking. Birth control pills, condoms, and other ways of birth control are darn fool proof today. If used responsibly, pregnancy should not happen. Abortion is just another example of people doing what they want to do and not wanting to live with the concequences if things don't go their way. Here's how they should look at it. "If you're going to have sex, YOU KNOW THAT YOU MIGHT END UP PREGNANT so think about that before you hop in the sack. It ain't that hard.

I have no idea what a super vegitarian is.

What does TKO stand for?

Abortion is just another example of people doing what they want to do and not wanting to live with the concequences if things don't go their way.

First: TKO is a boxing term for "Technical Knock Out"

Second: I thought "Super Vegitarian would be descript, sorry. Vegans are people who don't eat meat or eat (or use) any animal byproduct (eggs, dairy, don't wear leather).

Third: You're correct on all fronts about birth control, and it's use. The problem is that 70% of abortions take place in developing countries. Proactive means to address unplanned pregnancies are less avalibile. As for the other 30% of abortions...

Quote:

Abortion is just another example of people doing what they want to do and not wanting to live with the concequences if things don't go their way.

It's not your place to differenciate between what someone "wants" and what they "need." What make you think you know better than them? For that matter, the consequences you meantion are theirs, so the choice should be theirs as well. It doesn't logically follow that you or any politician should make a descision for another individual such as this.

Since "consequences" have been brought up, what of the consequences to all the unadopted children already in this world? Whose providing for the abandoned?

Pro-life makes sence as a choice.
Pro-life does not make sence as a mandate.

46 million abortions every year. 26 million are legal. 20 million are illegal. The statistics are avalible for all.

What are we to gain from making abortion illegal?

I suggest you investigate the world outside of the USA. Start with Denmark, where the quality of life is concidered to be the best in the world. Abortion isn't illegal and in last 25 years, abortion rates have gone from 30% to 18%.

The real issue isn't abortion. The real issue is unplanned pregnancies. 49% of the pregnancies in the US are unplanned. The Pro-life movement would have our governments make descisions that would do more harm than good. It's hard to swallow but it's the truth.

BTW southernpride, what are your opinions on SCNT stem cell research and IVF?

T
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O

southernpride wrote:

...Well now thats whole other story isn't it? If single folks decide to have sex they should be responsible enough to use protection and know the risk that they're taking. Birth control pills, condoms, and other ways of birth control are darn fool proof today. If used responsibly, pregnancy should not happen. Abortion is just another example of people doing what they want to do and not wanting to live with the concequences if things don't go their way. Here's how they should look at it. "If you're going to have sex, YOU KNOW THAT YOU MIGHT END UP PREGNANT so think about that before you hop in the sack. It ain't that hard...

LOL. Seems pretty basic doesn't it southernpride?

it's OK to kill whenever you want to or need to.

Insteresting that TKO mentions that the real issue is not abortion. However, he seems to be fighting tooth and nail to say that it is perfectly ok. He then goes on to say that 49% of American pregnancies are unplanned.

Fine. I am sure that most of those pregnancies come to term and a healthy and loved baby is the result. How many of those unplanned babies are aborted?

TKO goes round and round until nobody knows where he goes. Keep 'em guessing, huh TKO?

Frankly, I am sick of hearing this crap. Abortion is used as just another form of birth control and I find this appalling. We live in the 21st century, people, there is no reason for any unplanned pregnancies.

It is, sometimes, these same people who complain about giving food to third world countries and say to send them condoms instead. Education on what to do them is also required. Perhaps those in North America should receive condoms instead of food.

You spelled Non sequitur wrong.

Hey Intrepid,

I noticed Diest has not answered your previous direct question as to the point of his "survey".

Intrepid wrote:

You still haven't told us the point of your survey. Is there one? You chastised Bartikus, continually, for not responding to you quickly. Now, you say get back to you in a year. Way to go, Sparky.

I'm not sure that I have that responcibility to say what the point is, but having said that, I've already illustrated it in an earlier post. I'm not here to help you read, you can find it on your own.

I chastized Bart for making me have to ask over and over and over again. It took over 20 pages to get an answer. That's pretty weak. the survey is meant to sample a wide amount of issues that deal with the life and death of individuals or the unborn. I want to be able to hold someone accountable for what they believe. If you want my survey to be simply about opinions, I'll need to collect a wider sample, which can take a long time.

T
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You asked not insisted. What was that word he called me for not responding to his question that he demanded an answer for?

Oh yeah.......

You know what Intrepid, I just realized his respect may not only be impossible to get but, may not be worth getting.

Baddog- your avatar is cool.

southernpride- in case you have not been welcomed....

It's nice to hear some down to earth straight to the point comments regarding this issue without alot of side issues to complicate matters and to cloud the answer to the question of this thread.

kinda like the 6 points made in the previous post......How do those things relate to the question of the thread? Maybe TKO will let us know.

Yes, you have that responsibility. Otherwise you should have made that clear.

If you do not have the responsibility of explaing what your "survey" is for, how do you have the right to DEMAND that Bartikus answer your "survey". I put "survey" in quotes because it is actually just a shameful little game that you are playing.

How does your "survey" hold anybody accountable for what they believe.

Again, your logic is flawed.

Would you accusing me of threatening physical violence towards you be an example of a lie or just a mistake?

Intrepid wrote:

You spelled Non sequitur wrong.

That would be wrongly not "wrong".

Bartikus wrote:

Would you accusing me of threatening physical violence towards you be an example of a lie or just a mistake?

You tell me. I saw your original post prior to edit.

I believe it went... "It wouldn't be that hard for us to meet."

So you tell me, why exactly would things be different in person?

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I will answer as well. However, I will answer as asked with a simple for or against rather than cloud it with comments although I don't know what you expect this "survey" to produce. And, no I did not feel left out.

1) Abortion - Against
2) Adoption - For
3) SCNT embryonic stem cell research - Against
4) IVF - For
5) Iraq war - Against
6) Darfur intervention - For peacekeeping

Diest TKO wrote:

Bartikus wrote:

Would you accusing me of threatening physical violence towards you be an example of a lie or just a mistake?

You tell me. I saw your original post prior to edit.

I believe it went... "It wouldn't be that hard for us to meet."

So you tell me, why exactly would things be different in person?

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Telling a person that it would'nt be hard to meet is hardly a threat of physical violence.

I just think people in general have a greater ability to hold back their tongues a little bit more in person than over a medium such as this. I'm suggesting that this conversation could be much more civil...on both ends.

Do you disagree?

You would not ask a person a question (whom you don't know) then say WTF coward to their face. Unless you were blitz drunk or have serious mental issues......