When Does Life Begin?

Bartikus wrote:

With most abortions that occur:

Abortion does not give a child hope in finding a family of it's own as does adoption!

Abortion does not give the sick hope in possible technological breakthroughs that may provide a cure as postulated by some that stem cell research does!

Abortion does not give hope that a woman can carry a child of her own as with IVF and have a family!

Abortion does not free anyone from a dictorial rule and give people a chance at democracy giving hope!

Abortion does not prevent or stop genocide but may reflect it.

What grand hope does abortion give with most all cases? What hope that amount to any of these?

Abortion does none of this! Not even close......

Looks like your willing to split hairs when it comes down to it.

T
K
O

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Intrepid wrote:

Your last question first begs the question on whether same sex couples should be an issue. Are you speaking of same sex married couples?

It begs no such question. Bottom line, do you think that a homosexual individual or couple should be able to help provide a home for the orphan's of the world.

Intrepid wrote:

I may be wrong, but I think that unmarried people of opposite sex cannot adopt. If this is correct, I would look at the same for same sex couples.

You are incorrect, but it ranges from state to state. Many single hetrosexuals are able to adopt.

Intrepid wrote:

I don't condone same sex couples, but I certainly have no objection to the lifestyle that they choose.

The bottom line would be....I would agree with same sex couples adopting children if they are married.

Now you're begging questions, namely "is homosexuality a choice?"

As for the second statement, I'd be willing to bet from your other answers that you'd be for not letting them get married (not that it matters in every state when it comes down to single versus married.). If there are homes for children, and you are against letting the children getting to those homes, are you really supporting adoption as a alternative.

I'm not here to reconsile this kind of thing for anybody.

Intrepid wrote:

The reason that I accept IVF is that an unfertilized egg is used with an attempt to fertilize it. This is an attempt to create life where none exists.

If you are willing to allow several embryos to be destroyed for the sake of creating one life, then why is it so diiferent when someone feels the need to destroy one embryo for personal reasons?

If you aren't in a place to be raising a child, why should you have to? If the country/world isn't taking care of the abandoned, why add to the problem?

More importantly, why should anyone other than the woman be involved in this kind of choice? Why do you think you know the situation better?

Intrepid wrote:

Frankly, I am somewhat torn on SCNT and maybe I don't understand enough about it. Until I could be convinced otherwise, I will stand with my original answer.

I suggest you do look into it. by your argument earlier for the creating life, why not for the promotion of wellness?

T
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O

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Note: Bart still has not answered my survey.

Bart - I'll take back no such statement. If you want me to answer my own survey, fine. But how many of your requestes does one have to fulfill until you will fulfill just one of mine?

1) Abortion - For
2) Adoption - For, including LGBT communities
3) SCNT embryonic stem cell research - For
4) IVF - For
5) Iraq war - Against
6) Darfur intervention - For

T
K
O

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Bart - You're running out of excuses.

T
K
O

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1.) against
2.) for
3.) against
4.) for
5.) was for now not so much
6.) for

Your right Diest!

"If the country/world isn't taking care of the abandoned, why add to the problem?"

Does killing them take away the problem or just further reflect (magnify) the problem in a different form?

Are abandoned children the problem or a symptom of the problem?

Going from abandoned children to aborted ones is no departure from the path from which they were on but, rather a progression of it.

Where else does this path lead?

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Intrepid wrote:

I may be wrong, but I think that unmarried people of opposite sex cannot adopt. If this is correct, I would look at the same for same sex couples.

Deist answered:

Quote:

You are incorrect, but it ranges from state to state. Many single hetrosexuals are able to adopt.

Um, Sparky.... how can you say I am wrong. What does state to state have to do with it. I am in Canada.

Intrepid wrote:

I don't condone same sex couples, but I certainly have no objection to the lifestyle that they choose.

Deist wrote:

Quote:

As for the second statement, I'd be willing to bet from your other answers that you'd be for not letting them get married (not that it matters in every state when it comes down to single versus married.). If there are homes for children, and you are against letting the children getting to those homes, are you really supporting adoption as a alternative.

Again, I am in Canada... not the U.S. Everyplace does not have states you know.
You would lose your bet. You should quit trying to second guess what people write and concentrate more on getting your own posts accurate.

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Intrepid wrote:

Um, Sparky.... how can you say I am wrong. What does state to state have to do with it. I am in Canada.

Quote:

Hmmm.

Well I suggest checking into your country's laws on adoption then posting. This is all a mute point however, I've only asked for what you support, not what is currently legal.

T
K
O

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Actually, the entire thread has become mute.

BTW.. when are YOU going to take your own survey. Also, when can we expect to see the results of the complete survey. Charts are not necessary... percentages will do.

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Bartikus wrote:

1.) against
2.) for
3.) against
4.) for
5.) was for now not so much
6.) for

Your right Diest!

"If the country/world isn't taking care of the abandoned, why add to the problem?"

Does killing them take away the problem or just further reflect (magnify) the problem in a different form?

Are abandoned children the problem or a symptom of the problem?

Going from abandoned children to aborted ones is no departure from the path from which they were on but, rather a progression of it.

Where else does this path lead?

I've already posted on this. Abortion and Abandonment are just symptoms of the larger issue of unwanted pregnancies and how we enable our women to raise children.

Whether you have realized it or not yet, I'm trying to find a way to reduce the number of abortions and the number of abandoned children.

T
K
O

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Intripid wrote:

Actually, the entire thread has become mute.

BTW.. when are YOU going to take your own survey. Also, when can we expect to see the results of the complete survey. Charts are not necessary... percentages will do.

The thread is especially mute when you selectively read. I already answered my own questions and put them on display. As for when I post my results. If this is something you desire, I will have to wait until I have acquired a large enough sample. That's not the point of this survey, but if you insist, talk to me in a year.

Diest TKO wrote:

Note: Bart still has not answered my survey.

Bart - I'll take back no such statement. If you want me to answer my own survey, fine. But how many of your requestes does one have to fulfill until you will fulfill just one of mine?

1) Abortion - For
2) Adoption - For, including LGBT communities
3) SCNT embryonic stem cell research - For
4) IVF - For
5) Iraq war - Against
6) Darfur intervention - For

T
K
O

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Intripid wrote:

Actually, the entire thread has become mute.

BTW.. when are YOU going to take your own survey. Also, when can we expect to see the results of the complete survey. Charts are not necessary... percentages will do.

The thread is especially mute when you selectively read. I already answered my own questions and put them on display. As for when I post my results. If this is something you desire, I will have to wait until I have acquired a large enough sample. That's not the point of this survey, but if you insist, talk to me in a year.

Diest TKO wrote:

Note: Bart still has not answered my survey.

Bart - I'll take back no such statement. If you want me to answer my own survey, fine. But how many of your requestes does one have to fulfill until you will fulfill just one of mine?

1) Abortion - For
2) Adoption - For, including LGBT communities
3) SCNT embryonic stem cell research - For
4) IVF - For
5) Iraq war - Against
6) Darfur intervention - For

T
K
O

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You still haven't told us the point of your survey. Is there one? You chastised Bartikus, continually, for not responding to you quickly. Now, you say get back to you in a year. Way to go, Sparky.

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Diest TKO wrote:

1) Abortion - For
2) Adoption - For, including LGBT communities
3) SCNT embryonic stem cell research - For
4) IVF - For
5) Iraq war - Against
6) Darfur intervention - For

T
K
O

[/quote]

So, you are against the wages of war, but for killing babies. Yeah, I know...zygots, embryos, skin cells...not babies Shocked

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neologist wrote:

Sorry, but again you are dishing up argumentum ad smorgasbordium.

Cute!

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Intrepid wrote:

Actually, the entire thread has become mute.

Mute you say..........the better part of your insight* would be the part unsaid.

*Ah the wonderful world of euphemisms.

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TKO,
Are you managing to maintain grey-cell integrity, perhaps an infusion of fetal stem cells would provide a hearty pick-me-up.

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Bart,
Do you believe you can tell a human being from a non-human being?

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In early stages prob not. As far as I know women who become pregnant carry....human beings or human lives in their early stages of development.

If you have information that indicates otherwise....please let us know!

Can a Doctor...scientists...or a biologist? How bout you?

When Does Life Begin?

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