Black man, white man and jewish man: racism and comedy ....

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Which is worse? Anti-semitism or racism??

Or do you think they are the same???

I always thought they were the same.....

Like its bad to make fun of blacks, whites, chinese or jewish people, period.

But in recent times I am confused, why?

Well you see Jewish (Jackie Mason) and White(Robin Williams) and black comedians (Chris Rock) making derogatary jokes and remarks about their own races, and we say that is acceptable,

but if a non-member of these races was to say the same jokes or comments, its not right, its racist, or disgusting...........

BUT YET ITS OK TO LAUGH AT THESE SAME 'RACIST' JOKES, as long as the person telling the joke belongs to that particular race.

but then what about if Robin williams say started telling jokes about black people? or Chris Rock about Jewish people, we would say that was not acceptable...........AM I RIGHT???

I think these are the current unwritten rules.

Now what if a comedian began to make fun of other racial groups that he did not belong to???

WOULD IT BE ACCEPTABLE IF A WHITE COMEDIAN MADE FUN OF JEWISH PEOPLE?
OR BLACK COMEDIAN MADE FUN OF CHINESE PEOPLE???

BY MOCKING THEIR RACIAL STEREOTYPES?

I think not.

Now consider a comedian who functions only on comedy based on making fun of other racial groups.

I am talking of Sacha Baron Cohen a Jewish British comedian whose only contribution to comedy culture is racial stereo typing.

1) Character one Ali G - based on stereo typing black urban culture
2) Character two Borat - based on the stereo typing of Kazakhstanis.
3) Character three Bruno - based on stereo typing germans and homosexuals.

I would like to ask the question, would it be acceptable for someone to make the same type of comedy about Jewish people?

I my opinion if someone was to do such a thing it would be racist and wrong....

Some links to consider:

Black comedians take offence to racial stereo typing

http://www.guardian.co.uk/ali/article/0,2763,195449,00.html

Sacha Baron Cohen exploits the west's ignorance of Kazakhstan to the full, but his jokes are racist and slanderous

http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,,1886886,00.html

Israei ambassadors racism condemned comments about 'yellow race'

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/774471.html

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See, here's the thing: the humor in Cohen's show is the response of real-world subjects to the clearly absurd and outlandish characters -- the most commonly used result being that people are actually camera-smitten enough to believe that they are for real. There is never any conceit that Borat is in any way representative of a real Kazakh; rather, it's that the woman at the dating service or the old folks at the southern country club don't seem to realize (or at least are unwilling to acknowledge) that it's all a put-on. The thing about the bit with Borat in the Tucson country-and-western bar isn't, "Look at the antisemitic Kazakh!" but "Holy **** -- look at those bastards in Tucson happily sing along with the antisemitic song.

The humor isn't Bruno -- it's Bruno's interaction with the homophobe or with the mindless hanger-on of the fashion industry.

The humor isn't Ali G (not really), but the fact that Andy Rooney actually gets enraged about Ali G's abuse of the English language.

Honestly, if you buy into the characters you are implicitly the butt of the joke.

(Ali G, by the way, if you watch the show at all, is a lampoon of white British kids who try to be "black.")

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Robin Williams tells jokes about Jews and Blacks all the time.

Haven't you ever heard his imitations of old Jewish guys, or Black men (and women for that matter).

Chris Rock too has made many people laugh with his jokes about whites.

I've seen Mexicans make jokes about Whites, Chinese, look at Carlos Mencia, Margaret Cho...the list goes on and on...

The difference is they don't tell the jokes with ignorance or hatred.

You can tell when someone is telling a joke about another group and they're doing it to put them down or build themselves up. At least I can.

Jeez, I have a Mexican girlfriend and we are constantly joking about each others cultures....through that joking, I've actually learned a lot about others ways.

She's volunteered to come to my house and redecorate with lime green shag carpeting, and I tell her someday I'm going to show her 101 things to do with hamburger.

If someone is being mean, or racist, it's not funny. Seriously, you can pick out 99% of the time when it's not cool.

If someone told me Gloria was being a racist by "making fun" of me, I'd laugh in their face, and vice versa.

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Chai Tea wrote:

She's volunteered to come to my house and redecorate with lime green shag carpeting, and I tell her someday I'm going to show her 101 things to do with hamburger.

And one of these here days I am going to give you some corn rows, or dookie braids..

Andrew dice clay-

Made horrid jokes about women, black people and almost any other race you can think of.
He even did it in a way that made you question HIM as the performer as to wether or not he believed what he was saying himself.

But I don't want to just continue the list of performers.

I have to agree with Chai ( she is holding one of my testicles by a pair of pliers)

It isn't WHO is saying it, or what RACE they are... it is HOW they say it.
Though, if you only go by visuals / race ...
it does seem that the black population of comedians are mostly going to throw out the nigger jokes, and have their crowd laugh at them and accept them.

Your whites throw out hillbilly jokes,

Asians camera /chinc / rice jokes

Mexicans beans / wet back/ low rider jokes...

But when I think about it in a practical sense...

a black person trying to joke about mexican culture, or life as a vato, it ain't happenin.

It isn't funny.

These jokes are funnier when you can picture the performer DOING these things in their own lives.

Are you familiar with Chappelle?

He LOVES crack head jokes.
Because he LOOKS like a crack head. Laughing

Skinny, weird, jittery... any skin color could pull that off with his body.
So he makes it more personal, and jokes about black crack heads.
And he is hilarious.

Why?

Because we as the viewers can not only imagine him being there , but he does a good job at taking these jokes and making them so personal that it seems like a crack on himself when he says certain insults.

Margeret Cho..
another one....

She LOVES to joke about asians, and their accents, cameras and diets.

My long rambling means this -

I don't think that it is a matter of race accepting race when it comes to off color jokes.
I think it is the performer doing a good job of allowing himself to be the visual support under humorous racial attack that makes it all really funny and socially acceptable.

And, as Ms Tea said-
a true racist wouldn't be funny.

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I am not going to go on with any deep, intellectual sociological explanations. I think that it is very simple. I think that people have the sense that it is ok to laugh at yourself, and your own peccadillos, and it is NOT ok to laugh at someone elses'. Laughing at the peculiarities of your own group is simply an extension of that concept.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

I am not going to go on with any deep, intellectual sociological explanations. I think that it is very simple. I think that people have the sense that it is ok to laugh at yourself, and your own peccadillos, and it is NOT ok to laugh at someone elses'. Laughing at the peculiarities of your own group is simply an extension of that concept.

Have you ever felt comfortable enough with someone different (as in not being the same race/religion) from you that you joke about something particular to their group, and you both laugh...a genuine clean laughter?

Or vice versa?

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You apparently haven't watched too much comedy. People make fun of other races all the time, and it's fine. If you don't like it, then don't pay attention to it.

If I ever do stand-up, I'll have zero problem making jokes about black people, gay people, and anyone else that provides material.

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Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:

You apparently haven't watched too much comedy. People make fun of other races all the time, and it's fine. If you don't like it, then don't pay attention to it.

If I ever do stand-up, I'll have zero problem making jokes about black people, gay people, and anyone else that provides material.

That's because you're Polish and don't know any better.

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My girlfriend and I were talking about each putting together a short stand up act, and heading down to an open mic night. And how much I would horrify everyone with the stuff I come up with.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

I am not going to go on with any deep, intellectual sociological explanations. I think that it is very simple. I think that people have the sense that it is ok to laugh at yourself, and your own peccadillos, and it is NOT ok to laugh at someone elses'. Laughing at the peculiarities of your own group is simply an extension of that concept.

You see I agree with this point, its ok to make fun of yourself, even infront of your own race group, but say if chris rock is making fun of black people infront of other black people, its ok, but then if you got a none black person laughing at that joke are they racist???

But coing back to my question which no one has tackled , why is it ok for a Saccha Cohen as a jewish comedian to make fun of other race groups, not with one liner jokes but playing entire characters based on NEGATIVE stereo types ????

WHY IS THIS OK, IS MY QUESTION.

I thought the days of the 'golly' were over???

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It's ok because that's largely what makes up comedy. To many people, it's "ok." If you don't think it's ok, then don't watch Ali G.

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I wrote:

I think that people have the sense that it is ok to laugh at yourself, and your own peccadillos, and it is NOT ok to laugh at someone elses'.

I think that people have come to this juncture on account of the, (you should pardon the expression) "political correctness" movement, which has gotten to the point of absurdity. As soon as someone makes a negative remark about some group, no matter how innocuous, people tend to jump on the person.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

I wrote:
I think that people have the sense that it is ok to laugh at yourself, and your own peccadillos, and it is NOT ok to laugh at someone elses'.

I think that people have come to this juncture on account of the, (you should pardon the expression) "political correctness" movement, which has gotten to the point of absurdity. As soon as someone makes a negative remark about some group, no matter how innocuous, people tend to jump on the person.

But.... sometimes people have the sense in a situation that is IS ok to laugh at another group.....

Stevewonder, we both mentioned Chris Rock...haven't you ever heard him make a joke about a non-black and it was funny?

I'm white, he's made jokes about whites and I've laughed at them.

Phoenix, I think most people have the sense to know they don't have to be "PC" every second of the day. We should strive to be kind and not hateful, but that certainly doesn't preclude having a laugh about another group, and having that group laugh along with you.

I'm getting to the point where I loathe the phrase PC...it's been the catch phrase of the day

I guess I'm not clear on what both of you are saying....

Are you both saying there is Never a time when one may joke about another group?

What a boring life that would be.

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Chai Tea wrote:

Are you both saying there is Never a time when one may joke about another group?

Absolutely not. Perhaps I was unclear about my stance on the subject. I think that blanket "political correctness" (a subject, BTW, which I loathe) has supplanted kindness, decency and just plain common sense in the minds of many people.

I think that one has to know one's "audience" (this applies not only to a comedian, but on one and one interactions with other people"). One needs to know if a person is likely to become offended by certain types of remarks, before one opens one's mouth. Some people are very touchy about remarks made by people of other groups about their group; others enjoy a good joke which describes the foibles of people.

I thin that a few things need to be taken into consideration- Is the person sensitive about less than a favorable description about their group (even though that description may be true), and what is the motivation of the speaker making the remark. If the statment is made in a hostile fashion, to belittle, to be disrespectful, IMO it is always unacceptable. If, on the other hand the remark or joke is stated in an attitude of fun, where the speaker is laughing WITH the other person, instead of AT him, I don't see a problem.

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If a comedian makes it clear that his jokes are not how he truely views that ethnic group, then I think it is ok.

Their is a line that he may cross though, and that is not ok.

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What has eight legs and goes "Hodeedoh! Hodeedoh!"?

-4 black people late for an elevator

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There is a certain amount of leeway that minorities in the US have here in regard to the humor and comedy that they express that whites generally don't have, that's roughly correlational to the power structure and discrimination in this country in regard to race and ethnicity. That's why minorities can get away with off color jokes about race a lot more that whites can. The jokes that Carlos Mencia and Sarah Silverman make about other ethnicities would come off rather differently coming from a 'non-ethnic' white.

In the case of Sacha Baron Cohen I think, like patiodog stated, that the humor and startlement lies in the ignorance of the unsuspecting audience, like the rednecks that Cohen prompted to sing along with an anti-Semitic song. Cohen's humor is informed by a persecution complex that has been instilled in many Israelis (his mother is Farsi Jewish Israeli) by the festering conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, and the general belligerence that this conflict has engendered in the Muslim world towards Jews. In dealing with his issue he scapegoats Kazakhs, a sufficiently obscure (to most Westerners) Muslim people.

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Quote:

But coing back to my question which no one has tackled , why is it ok for a Saccha Cohen as a jewish comedian to make fun of other race groups, not with one liner jokes but playing entire characters based on NEGATIVE stereo types ????

WHY IS THIS OK, IS MY QUESTION.

Did my answer not pique your interest at all? I thought I addressed Cohen's act pretty specifically, and the whole point is that the audience knows that the characters are meant to be provocative, not representative.

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I read your link on Ali G stevewonder....

unfortunately, I've never seen/heard him, and don't know who he is.

I can't judge from reading the article if he's funny or not, I'd have to actually view him.

Can't remember exactly now, but one of the things he does reminded me of a running joke Damon Wayan had on Mad TV about a drunk homeless guy....The funniest one was a skit he did called "Dis Old Box", which was a takeoff on Bob Vila's "This Old House"...

He lived in a cardboard box on the street, and "today's project" was to put in a picture window...which meant him putting his fist through the box.

Really funny stuff.

Now, was I laughing because it was a takeoff on a white guy and his show, or laughing at an alcoholic, or that he was black or homeless....?

Really thinking about it....The only element that could have been taken out of there, and still have been funny, was the fact he was black.

Even then, it would not have been AS funny. Why? Because a black guy was making a joke about a white guy.

The key that made it all fall together was that he had ALL these these going against him, but was proudly fixing up his box.

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What do you call 100,000 black people buried up to their necks?

-afro turf

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Black man, white man and jewish man: racism and comedy ....

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