Freedom FROM religion

Setanta wrote:

snood wrote:

Act like a man, Snood--take responsibility for the consequences of the actions you freely chose to take.

LOL! Why are we continuing with the sexist comments?

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Snicker

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Just addressing him in language of which he is fond himself, and which he used in the insulting PMs he sent me.

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Setanta, are you willing to take the responsibility for continuing to address Arella with a name she finds offensive, that you use to offend?

I had to be banned for offensive language that I freely admit using on you.

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Snood wrote:

I admit to some homophobia, and I admit to some bigotry about white people and a need to be more open-minded sometimes, but I've never even remotely suspected myself of even unconscious sexism. Hell some of my best friends are women (can I get away with a little joke?)

I have to commend you Snood, on that statement. This is the first time, in my memory, that you owned up to the concept that you too might have some knee jerk prejudices, just like the rest of us fallible human beings.

Snood wrote:

I'm not sure why Phoenix jumped into the middle of that exchange to lob that accusation, but most of the time I find coexistence not too inconvenient with her.

This IS a discussion, and your remark caused a reaction in me, which I addressed. Personally, I think that we have been getting along pretty well lately, and I certainly want to keep the lines of communication open.

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Ditto, Phoenix. You and I are both strongly opinionated about some things, and it would be easier to simply allow our differences to create artificial distances and barriers. It takes an effort for people to not dwell on the points of contention, but just acknowledge them and go on. I appreciate that you're willing to do that with me.

If I've come off like I don't think I'm fallible or possibly wrong about matters of race or other matters regarding discrimination, I know that's not true - I have been wrong in my judgements about people in general, and some I know personally. I am over 40, but I continue to try to grow to judge people one at a time. Sometimes I do better than other times.

This thread has made me look anew at the whole church vs state issue. In Barack Obama's book The Audacity of Hope, he says "people often forget that the separation of church and state is for the protection of the state, and the church". Interesting take, huh?

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snood wrote:

This thread has made me look anew at the whole church vs state issue. In Barack Obama's book The Audacity of Hope, he says "people often forget that the separation of church and state is for the protection of the state, and the church". Interesting take, huh?

He's right on target. As soon as the government gets involved in much of ANYTHING, there is a "tendency" for it to get mucked up. A church needs to be able to "do their thing" without the government sticking its nose where it does not belong.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

snood wrote:
This thread has made me look anew at the whole church vs state issue. In Barack Obama's book The Audacity of Hope, he says "people often forget that the separation of church and state is for the protection of the state, and the church". Interesting take, huh?

He's right on target. As soon as the government gets involved in much of ANYTHING, there is a "tendency" for it to get mucked up. A church needs to be able to "do their thing" without the government sticking its nose where it does not belong.

What is a church's "thing" Isn't a church's "thing" and a government's "thing" the same?

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mindonfire wrote:

What is a church's "thing" Isn't a church's "thing" and a government's "thing" the same?

Only if you look at it from the point of view that the government and the churches have one thing in common............they all want POWER!!!

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Mindonfire wrote:

Isn't a church's "thing" and a government's "thing" the same?

No.

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Setanta wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:
All I did was tell you that I saw the situation as one of two ways. Good grief. It was merely an opinion, ok? If you don't like something then do something to change it.

I hadn't complained of the situation, so i didn't need you to tell me what i ought to do about a situation which is of no concern to me. If you paid attention, rather than assuming everything in the S & R forum is about you, you might have realized that.

It was actually just a statement in general. I didn't mean it to any person in particular. If I do I try to either address that person by their username or quoting what they said. I am sorry for the misunderstanding,as I can see how my saying "all I did was tell you," might lead to that misunderstanding. But it was just a generalized observation.

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ehBeth wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:
Isn't a church's "thing" and a government's "thing" the same?

No.

Please shew us the difference?

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Are you governed by your religion?
I'm not. I am governed by municipal/provincial and federal laws.

Do you pay taxes to your religion?
I don't. I pay taxes to municipal/provincial and federal agencies.

Does your religion fix your streets?
Mine doesn't. My municipal government does.

Does your religion trim your trees?
Mine doesn't. My municipal government does.

Does your religion plow the snow in your streets in the winter?
Mine doesn't. My municipal government does. In other areas of the province, the provincial government does winter road maintenance.

Does your government advise you in matters of spirituality and faith?
Mine doesn't.

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Can you vote to change your relgion?

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snood wrote:

Ditto, Phoenix. You and I are both strongly opinionated about some things, and it would be easier to simply allow our differences to create artificial distances and barriers. It takes an effort for people to not dwell on the points of contention, but just acknowledge them and go on. I appreciate that you're willing to do that with me.

If I've come off like I don't think I'm fallible or possibly wrong about matters of race or other matters regarding discrimination, I know that's not true - I have been wrong in my judgements about people in general, and some I know personally. I am over 40, but I continue to try to grow to judge people one at a time. Sometimes I do better than other times.

This thread has made me look anew at the whole church vs state issue. In Barack Obama's book The Audacity of Hope, he says "people often forget that the separation of church and state is for the protection of the state, and the church". Interesting take, huh?

Hey, Snood, I'd like to commend you on the thoughts expressed in this thread as well. I've noticed you commenting on the Obama book in a couple different places. My copy shipped from Amazon this morning. Once I get into it a bit, I'd like to have a discussion on the Books thread about it, if you're interested.

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I'm sure I would enjoy that, JPB.
I bought a couple other books the same night, and I have a bad habit of skipping back and forth from one book to the other until I finish them all, but I will concentrate on getting throught the Obama one next.

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ehBeth wrote:

Are you governed by your religion?
I'm not. I am governed by municipal/provincial and federal laws.

Well, not considering the fact that all forms of governments are forms of religion, if you are a person who follows what is incorrectly considered by many as the only forms of religion, then yes. Christians are governed by Christianity. Muslims are governed by Islam. Jews are governed by Judaism. And then if you throw in the others, Communists are governed by Communism. Socialists are governed by Socialism. Democracies are governed by Democracy, or at least they say. So, no matter how you slice it if you live in any form of government, you are governed by it. Maybe you should examine the definition of "govern." LOL! By the way, who establishes those laws?

Definition Merriam Webster

Govern: (vrb) transitive verb
1 a : to exercise continuous sovereign authority over; especially : to control and direct the making and administration of policy in b : to rule without sovereign power and usually without having the authority to determine basic policy 2 a archaic : MANIPULATE b : to control the speed of (as a machine) especially by automatic means 3 a : to control, direct, or strongly influence the actions and conduct of b : to exert a determining or guiding influence in or over *income must govern expenditure* c : to hold in check : RESTRAIN 4 : to require (a word) to be in a certain case 5 : to serve as a precedent or deciding principle for *customs that govern human decisions* intransitive verb 1 : to prevail or have decisive influence : CONTROL 2 : to exercise authority

ehBeth wrote:

Do you pay taxes to your religion?
I don't. I pay taxes to municipal/provincial and federal agencies.

Of course you do. If you go to church you pay taxes if you don't go to church, you still pay taxes. What do you think a tithe is?

Tithe: (n) 1 : a tenth part of something paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax especially for the support of a religious establishment 2 : the obligation represented by individual tithes 3 : TENTH; broadly : a small part 4 : a small tax or levy

ehBeth wrote:

Does your religion fix your streets?
Mine doesn't. My municipal government does.

And what is your municipal government based on? A belief in democracy? And if it does, then your religion fixes your streets

ehBeth wrote:

Does your religion trim your trees?
Mine doesn't. My municipal government does.

Whether you realise it or not or whether you acknowledge it or not, yours does. Once again, what is your municipal government based on?

ehBeth wrote:

Does your religion plow the snow in your streets in the winter?
Mine doesn't. My municipal government does. In other areas of the province, the provincial government does winter road maintenance.

Yours does. Once again, whether you realise it or not or whether you acknowledge it or not, yours does

ehBeth wrote:

Does your government advise you in matters of spirituality and faith?
Mine doesn't.

LOL! This last one is too funny. Yours does. It's called the evening news.
Remember Iraq? LOL

Faith: (n) 1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs *the Protestant faith*
synonyms see BELIEF

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snood wrote:

Setanta, are you willing to take the responsibility for continuing to address Arella with a name she finds offensive, that you use to offend?

I had to be banned for offensive language that I freely admit using on you.

...didn't think so.

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snood wrote:

snood wrote:
Setanta, are you willing to take the responsibility for continuing to address Arella with a name she finds offensive, that you use to offend?

I had to be banned for offensive language that I freely admit using on you.

...didn't think so.

If you want to play the clown, help yourself.

You freely admitted nothing, until i pointed it out publicly in this thread. If you want to compare referring to the ego-centric bible thumper as MOAN with your private messages in which "Bitch" and "son-of-a-bitch" were some of the milder epithets you used, and for which you were banned, help youself. I long ago came to the realization that you have absolutely no sense of proportion when the topic is either religion or race.

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...and since you're never ever wrong, your "realization" must be the truth about me. Yeah, you've got me pegged. Me and Arella, and Asherman, and Intrepid, and Ticoyama, etc. all just have unreasonable grudges against you, Setanta. You don't start the bitch-fights, and you don't perpetuate them.

You are truly amazing in your propensity for denial.

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