Self- Immolation

neologist wrote:

mesquite wrote:

And not answered.

Trinitarians have a hard time with this. Perhaps it is because sacrifice in the days of the OT was dedicated to God. Jesus did indeed sacrifice himself to his father on our behalf because, as Paul noted, he became both king and priest (Hebrews 4:6) This makes it awkward to claim that Jesus was, in fact, God.

LOL! Who reads the Old Testament these days. What's in the Old Testament does not apply to today. We are under a better covenant. Christ did away with the Old Testament. Etc.... Isn't that the common posture of today's Christians?

2Timothy 3:14
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];

2Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Timothy 3:16
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

1. You shall not worship any other god but YHWH.

2. You shall not make a graven image.

3. You shall not take the name of YHWH in vain.

4. You shall not break the Sabbath.

Mindonfire wrote:

neologist wrote:

mesquite wrote:

And not answered.

Trinitarians have a hard time with this. Perhaps it is because sacrifice in the days of the OT was dedicated to God. Jesus did indeed sacrifice himself to his father on our behalf because, as Paul noted, he became both king and priest (Hebrews 4:6) This makes it awkward to claim that Jesus was, in fact, God.

LOL! Who reads the Old Testament these days. What's in the Old Testament does not apply to today. We are under a better covenant. Christ did away with the Old Testament. Etc.... Isn't that the common posture of today's Christians?

Two things;
1. Christ did not say he was doing away with the OT. In Christ's day the Scriptures were the OT. In the days of Paul, Peter and James the Scriptures were the OT.

Quote:

2Timothy 3:14
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];

2Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Timothy 3:16
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Tell us Mindonfire, what scriptures do you think the author was talking about here?

2. If the OT is to be trashed, as you suggest, than I suppose that goes for the Ten Commandments. They should be trashed as well.

I believe they should as the first four commandments do not represent what America and the free world stands for. God of the Bible, it appears, cannot live up to humanities concept of freedom and decency. He's way outdated. He's a throwback to the days of tyranny and unquestioned loyalty.

What we need today is a new God, one that reflects our new standards of tolerance, understanding and humanity. No more of this 'my way or no way' attitude.

Kind of like George Bush. Your either with us or against us. If against us I will attack and destroy you, provided I have the power to do so, which I currently don't because I'm to stupid and incompetent to conduct a successful war.

Quote:

1. You shall not worship any other god but YHWH.

2. You shall not make a graven image.

3. You shall not take the name of YHWH in vain.

4. You shall not break the Sabbath.

i've got to say mindonfire that was quite poor. the old testament is as relevant as the new. without the old testament, there would be no prophecy, no law, no creation, no basis on which to build our faith on. the old and new testaments are equally as important as each other.

mesquite - he sacrificed himself for the whole of mankind. he died so that we may all have life and life to the full. he died, he sacrificed himself so that mankind didn't have to be resticted to the worldly things and were able to be forgiven for their sins. he died for me equally as he died for you, and anybody else.

he didn't sacrifice himself to anybody. he sacrificed himself for us. it was prophecy fulfilled, he did it because that was his purpose, to show mankind that he was the son of God and then to die for us so that we may all have life and life to the full. he did it so that we could all be forgiven for our sins, i guess you could say he sacrificed himself to the future of mankind as it was through his death that we are able to enter heaven.

I don't mean any disrespect, but is that it? Is that the best plan God could come up with to encourage his most beloved creations to repent? Two thousand years later and it seems to have not worked out too well. I tried real hard for about ten years to understand the sense in this story. Needless to say, I didn't find any. Did I miss something?

xingu wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

neologist wrote:

mesquite wrote:

And not answered.

Trinitarians have a hard time with this. Perhaps it is because sacrifice in the days of the OT was dedicated to God. Jesus did indeed sacrifice himself to his father on our behalf because, as Paul noted, he became both king and priest (Hebrews 4:6) This makes it awkward to claim that Jesus was, in fact, God.

LOL! Who reads the Old Testament these days. What's in the Old Testament does not apply to today. We are under a better covenant. Christ did away with the Old Testament. Etc.... Isn't that the common posture of today's Christians?

Two things;
1. Christ did not say he was doing away with the OT. In Christ's day the Scriptures were the OT. In the days of Paul, Peter and James the Scriptures were the OT.

Quote:

2Timothy 3:14
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];

2Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Timothy 3:16
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Tell us Mindonfire, what scriptures do you think the author was talking about here?

2. If the OT is to be trashed, as you suggest, than I suppose that goes for the Ten Commandments. They should be trashed as well.

I believe they should as the first four commandments do not represent what America and the free world stands for. God of the Bible, it appears, cannot live up to humanities concept of freedom and decency. He's way outdated. He's a throwback to the days of tyranny and unquestioned loyalty.

What we need today is a new God, one that reflects our new standards of tolerance, understanding and humanity. No more of this 'my way or no way' attitude.

Kind of like George Bush. Your either with us or against us. If against us I will attack and destroy you, provided I have the power to do so, which I currently don't because I'm to stupid and incompetent to conduct a successful war.

Quote:

1. You shall not worship any other god but YHWH.

2. You shall not make a graven image.

3. You shall not take the name of YHWH in vain.

4. You shall not break the Sabbath.

Excuse us, but in case you didn't notice, we were being facetious. We were pointing out the common posture of todays Christians.

Mindonfire wrote:

xingu wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

neologist wrote:

mesquite wrote:

And not answered.

Trinitarians have a hard time with this. Perhaps it is because sacrifice in the days of the OT was dedicated to God. Jesus did indeed sacrifice himself to his father on our behalf because, as Paul noted, he became both king and priest (Hebrews 4:6) This makes it awkward to claim that Jesus was, in fact, God.

LOL! Who reads the Old Testament these days. What's in the Old Testament does not apply to today. We are under a better covenant. Christ did away with the Old Testament. Etc.... Isn't that the common posture of today's Christians?

Two things;
1. Christ did not say he was doing away with the OT. In Christ's day the Scriptures were the OT. In the days of Paul, Peter and James the Scriptures were the OT.

Quote:

2Timothy 3:14
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];

2Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Timothy 3:16
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Tell us Mindonfire, what scriptures do you think the author was talking about here?

2. If the OT is to be trashed, as you suggest, than I suppose that goes for the Ten Commandments. They should be trashed as well.

I believe they should as the first four commandments do not represent what America and the free world stands for. God of the Bible, it appears, cannot live up to humanities concept of freedom and decency. He's way outdated. He's a throwback to the days of tyranny and unquestioned loyalty.

What we need today is a new God, one that reflects our new standards of tolerance, understanding and humanity. No more of this 'my way or no way' attitude.

Kind of like George Bush. Your either with us or against us. If against us I will attack and destroy you, provided I have the power to do so, which I currently don't because I'm to stupid and incompetent to conduct a successful war.

Quote:

1. You shall not worship any other god but YHWH.

2. You shall not make a graven image.

3. You shall not take the name of YHWH in vain.

4. You shall not break the Sabbath.

Excuse us, but in case you didn't notice, we were being facetious. We were pointing out the common posture of todays Christians.

Well excuse me but when it comes to today's Christians there are all kinds. You can't buttonhole them. There are many Christians who believe in the OT as fervently as the NT. Ever hear of Creationist, evangelicals, conservative Southern Baptist and so forth?

echi wrote:

I don't mean any disrespect, but is that it? Is that the best plan God could come up with to encourage his most beloved creations to repent? Two thousand years later and it seems to have not worked out too well. I tried real hard for about ten years to understand the sense in this story. Needless to say, I didn't find any. Did I miss something?

"Beloved creations"? Where do you get that? Right from the beginning God set up a sting operation on Adam and Eve, and then when they innocent as they are, fall for the trap, future he sentences them and their offspring to punishment in perpetuity.

Who said that they were innocent? How did God force them to break the commandment? How did God put them in a trap?

Mindonfire wrote:

Who said that they were innocent? How did God force them to break the commandment? How did God put them in a trap?

According to this belief, God is the Creator of everything, including human nature.