How can you not believe in evolution? Also ideas on Genesis

Something else just dawned on me about this whole thing. You see, the point that I'm talking about of WHY is a bluejay blue is coming from the assumption, on my part, that there is a purpose. Several good reasons have been listed here. However, really maybe there is no definite purpose of why one bird is one color and another is another color at all. It just is as is it and that's perfectly ok. Heh... that's cool...

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Jason Proudmoore wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Well Jason, thanks for your input, but again that answers "how" not "why". As far as my science grade... LOL I can't believe you asked this...

Waittaminuteas far as I know, this was the question you asked:

hephzibah wrote:
WHY is a bluejay blue?

Can you read that you did ask "why" and not "how" the blue jay is blue? Do you know the difference between the two questions? I gave you an answer to why the color blue on the jaybird

hephzibah wrote:

Let's put it this way...

I pulled all A+'s in the things I found interesting....

And all D-'s in the things I found boring...

Which is how it was with every class I had in high school.

Quote:

Did you even get a final grade at all? I thought that teachers evaluated their students by their overall work through out the school year. So, you got an A+ grade, and when it came to the introduction of evolution you had no idea what they were talking about, and that's why you've got the D-am I right?

Sheesh Jason... take it easy there killer. Cool

First of all I was saying I can't believe you asked what my grade in science was, not that you asked why or how or whatever about the bluejay. Sooo... bite me buddy. :wink:

Now... concerning the science grade, of course I got a final grade. Though I fail to see the relevance to this issue, which is why I didn't just come out with it in the first place. Care to explain?

LOL so you are now going to assume which parts I did good in and which parts I did bad in? Oh boy... Rolling Eyes

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hephzibah wrote:

You see, the point that I'm talking about of WHY is a bluejay blue is coming from the assumption, on my part, that there is a purpose. .

Exactly...you came to the conclusion that the only reason the blue jay is blue is because there is a purpose...you made an blidn guess without any evidence to support it.

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LOL Yep sure did Jason. Cool

You need any help twisting that knife around in my chest? Maybe a hammer to wack me over the head with as well? At least I admitted I was wrong. :wink: Hehehe...

Did you stop to think that maybe my realizing that could be considered a good thing?

Jason, how do you see your cup...

Half empty?

Or half full?

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hephzibah wrote:

Sheesh Jason... take it easy there killer.

First of all I was saying I can't believe you asked what my grade in science was, not that you asked why or how or whatever about the bluejay. Sooo... bite me buddy. :wink:

hephzibah wrote:

Now... concerning the science grade, of course I got a final grade. Though I fail to see the relevance to this issue, which is why I didn't just come out with it in the first place. Care to explain?

Let's put it this way...

Quote:

I pulled all A+'s in the things I found interesting....

And all D-'s in the things I found boring...

Which is how it was with every class I had in high school.

The relevance lies in the above three sentences.
Logically, if you did well on one particular part of science, you failed to do well on anothersince we're talking about the natural selection of the color blue on the blue jay, it is reasonable to think that the part that you didn't do well on was on the evolution partget it?

hephzibah wrote:

LOL so you are now going to assume which parts I did good in and which parts I did bad in? Oh boy...

Yup

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hephzibah wrote:

LOL Yep sure did Jason. You need any help twisting that knife around in my chest? Maybe a hammer to wack me over the head with as well? At least I admitted I was wrong. :wink: Hehehe...

Do I need a hammer for that? I thougt that ringing your neck with my bare hands would do the trick...

...you admitted that you were wrong? WOW!!

hephzibah wrote:

Did you stop to think that maybe my realizing that could be considered a good thing?

What's considered a good thing?

hephzibah wrote:

Jason, how do you see your cup...

Half empty?

Or half full?

half empty... from drinking the Devil's juice. Twisted Evil

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Jason Proudmoore wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Sheesh Jason... take it easy there killer.

First of all I was saying I can't believe you asked what my grade in science was, not that you asked why or how or whatever about the bluejay. Sooo... bite me buddy. :wink:

hephzibah wrote:

Now... concerning the science grade, of course I got a final grade. Though I fail to see the relevance to this issue, which is why I didn't just come out with it in the first place. Care to explain?

Let's put it this way...

Quote:

I pulled all A+'s in the things I found interesting....

And all D-'s in the things I found boring...

Which is how it was with every class I had in high school.

The relevance lies in the above three sentences.
Logically, if you did well on one particular part of science, you failed to do well on anothersince we're talking about the natural selection of the color blue on the blue jay, it is reasonable to think that the part that you didn't do well on was on the evolution partget it?

hephzibah wrote:

LOL so you are now going to assume which parts I did good in and which parts I did bad in? Oh boy...

Yup

LOL what does the color of the bluejay have to do with evolution Jason? Not a cotton picking thing! Unless of course you can prove to me somehow that the bluejay was actually a different color at some point and "evolved" into being blue. OMG... Honestly I did excellent in astronomy and I do believe I actually faired pretty well in evolution as well. That is after all pretty much the only thing I had to go on at the time. I didn't get "saved" until I was 19. So.... Razz

YOU are wrong for making an assumption about me. Which leaves only one question... are you man enough to admit it? Twisted Evil

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

hephzibah wrote:
LOL Yep sure did Jason. You need any help twisting that knife around in my chest? Maybe a hammer to wack me over the head with as well? At least I admitted I was wrong. :wink: Hehehe...

Do I need a hammer for that? I thougt that ringing your neck with my bare hands would do the trick...

...you admitted that you were wrong? WOW!!

hephzibah wrote:

Did you stop to think that maybe my realizing that could be considered a good thing?

What's considered a good thing?

hephzibah wrote:

Jason, how do you see your cup...

Half empty?

Or half full?

half empty... from drinking the Devil's juice.

Ring my neck? Holy crap... LOL

Now what's up with how you said I admitted I was wrong? You say it like I don't ever do that. Sheesh. Rolling Eyes

Your the proud one here not me Jason! :wink:

Here... let me rephrase that question so you can understand it a little better:

Did you stop to think that my realizing I was going at it from a preconceived notion that there was a purpose might actually be a good thing for me to realize?

LOL

Yeah... You drink devils juice alright... meanie... Evil or Very Mad

*sob*

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Isn't the purpose of all life and all evolution survival?

Every single action an animal, plant or any living organism does goes to serve one end; survival for itself and for it's species.
That is what evolution is in a sense, each species battling for survival.

So I think it is safe to say that there is purpose. The hard part is to say to what end and from where it comes.

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True true Cyracuz everything plays it's part. That much I believe. But if they haven't come to be yet how can they have a purpose? So my angle I guess was everything was brought into being as they are for a specific purpose. Do you know what I mean? I still want to believe there's a purpose. There's got to be a purpose we are here doesn't there? Hmmm...

BTW... what does this mean:

Hvis du kan forstaa dette er du ikke langt unna

Just curious. Cool

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hephzibah wrote:

LOL what does the color of the bluejay have to do with evolution Jason? Not a cotton picking thing!

Really?
I thought that evolution was a mutation in the genes of a living organism that helped it adapt to its new environmentfor the purpose of its survival.

hephzibah wrote:

Unless of course you can prove to me somehow that the bluejay was actually a different color at some point and "evolved" into being blue.

Aren't there other birds that resemble the blue jay?

hephzibah wrote:

OMG... Honestly I did excellent in astronomy and I do believe I actually faired pretty well in evolution as well.

Does cheating during the exam count?

hephzibah wrote:

That is after all pretty much the only thing I had to go on at the time. I didn't get "saved" until I was 19.

Were you drowing or something?

hephzibah wrote:

So.... YOU are wrong for making an assumption about me.

Wrong? Don't be ridiculous.

hephzibah wrote:

Which leaves only one question... are you man enough to admit it?

Man enough to admit what? That you are wrong? Yeah, I admit it.

hephzibah wrote:

Did you stop to think that maybe my realizing that could be considered a good thing?

hephzibah wrote:

Now what's up with how you said I admitted I was wrong? You say it like I don't ever do that. Sheesh. Your the proud one here not me Jason! :wink:

If you ever admitted that you were wrong, I've never found out
And yes, I'm the proud one.

hephzibah wrote:

Here... let me rephrase that question so you can understand it a little better:

Thank you.

hephzibah wrote:

Did you stop to think that my realizing I was going at it from a preconceived notion that there was a purpose might actually be a good thing for me to realize?

What? I still can't get ya.

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Jason Proudmoore wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

LOL what does the color of the bluejay have to do with evolution Jason? Not a cotton picking thing!

Really?
I thought that evolution was a mutation in the genes of a living organism that helped it adapt to its new environmentfor the purpose of its survival.

hephzibah wrote:

Unless of course you can prove to me somehow that the bluejay was actually a different color at some point and "evolved" into being blue.

Aren't there other birds that resemble the blue jay?

hephzibah wrote:

OMG... Honestly I did excellent in astronomy and I do believe I actually faired pretty well in evolution as well.

Does cheating during the exam count?

hephzibah wrote:

That is after all pretty much the only thing I had to go on at the time. I didn't get "saved" until I was 19.

Were you drowing or something?

hephzibah wrote:

So.... YOU are wrong for making an assumption about me.

Wrong? Don't be ridiculous.

hephzibah wrote:

Which leaves only one question... are you man enough to admit it?

Man enough to admit what? That you are wrong? Yeah, I admit it.

hephzibah wrote:

Did you stop to think that maybe my realizing that could be considered a good thing?

hephzibah wrote:

Now what's up with how you said I admitted I was wrong? You say it like I don't ever do that. Sheesh. Your the proud one here not me Jason! :wink:

If you ever admitted that you were wrong, I've never found out
And yes, I'm the proud one.

hephzibah wrote:

Here... let me rephrase that question so you can understand it a little better:

Thank you.

hephzibah wrote:

Did you stop to think that my realizing I was going at it from a preconceived notion that there was a purpose might actually be a good thing for me to realize?

What? I still can't get ya.

You

exhaust

me.

*sigh*

God you are SUCH a butthead sometimes!

Argh!

There's just no winning with you.

You are either right

or

you are right.

It must be lonely being you....

Bwaaaaaaaaaa hahaha!

Just poking fun at ya. :wink:

I might respond to this later... maybe...

Though I'm debating if you deserve a response...

Hmmmm...

I must go to bed now though because I'm working third shift tonight.

So... until tomorrow...

Peace out... Cool

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heph

My signature is norwegian, and says "if you can understand this you are not far away".

I thought it was clever when I put it there, but now I just think it's silly. Smile

But concerning purpose, I am not sure what you mean. In a way evolution has purpose, because it has produced beings capable of concieving of the idea and acting on it.

But as I said, everything reeks of purpose. It is the design of this purpose we cannot as easily agree on.

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Cyracuz wrote:

heph

My signature is norwegian, and says "if you can understand this you are not far away".

I thought it was clever when I put it there, but now I just think it's silly.

But concerning purpose, I am not sure what you mean. In a way evolution has purpose, because it has produced beings capable of concieving of the idea and acting on it.

But as I said, everything reeks of purpose. It is the design of this purpose we cannot as easily agree on.

Aaah... I don't think it's silly. That's a pretty neat idea. Thanks for explaining. Smile

Well, I have this thing ingrained in my mind you see. There is a purpose for everything. It comes from 17 years of being involved in christianity. I still want to believe that there is a purpose for us being here. A destiny of sorts. That the things I went through in my life weren't for nothing. The problem I have most often is trying to erase some of these ideals from my mind is like trying to erase a book that has already been published.

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I knwo what you mean heph.

Even though I have never believed in the ideas of christianity, the question of a purpose has occupied my mind for as long as I can remember.

I used to ask 'is there purpose'.
As I said, I think there is. Survival is one purpose that is easily detectable everywhere.

And for me that is enough. Survival. But survival of what? The continued existence of myself and my family, that much is obvious. But it isn't very gratifying to merely survive, and it doesn't require all of my capacity.
So I have idle hands and no immediate assignment.
But there's always survival. Not only for me and mine, but for the ideals and issues that I feel deserve a place in the world.
This, as I see it, is the purpose of our existence.

But I suspect that you are asking about an intended purpose, an agenda that preceeded all this.
I don't know that there is such a thing, and nor do I believe it. But I also see no need for it for my life to have meaning.

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See... you hit the nail right on the head there. That's what I waver the most on. Feeling like if there is no "intended purpose" then there is no meaning. I'm just here to survive and exist. Why is that so bad? I guess if I were to be honest I'd have to say because when I believed whole heartedly in God, in His design, in having a purpose for my life I felt special. Needed. Wanted. I'm afraid I won't feel that without God in my life. I've overcome many many things in the last 10 years, but that is something that is still a big struggle for me.

I grew up not feeling any of those things in my life from the people I should have felt them from. So when I found God it was the saving grace that gave me enough hope to go on and not just give up and decide I was as worthless as others sometimes treated me. I learned how to actually let people treat me like I was special, needed, and wanted. I couldn't before because after so many years of not having it I shut off the idea that I ever could or would. So no matter what someone did, I saw it as rejection in one form or another. I am so afraid of losing feeling those things. It is probably my greatest fear truthfully speaking. I don't want to go back to how my life was before. I don't want to live feeling like that ever again. So I'm scared. Plain and simple.

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Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Really?
I thought that evolution was a mutation in the genes of a living organism that helped it adapt to its new environmentfor the purpose of its survival.

Righto

So show me the proof that the bluejay mutated to adapt to it's environment and THEN we'll have something to talk about.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Aren't there other birds that resemble the blue jay?

Resemblance means nothing. You know how they say everyone has a twin somewhere in this world? Well, I met mine, and yes we could pass for twins. Identical twins. However, she is mexican, I am french... I think... probably some indian in there too. So we resemble each other enough to pass as twins, yet we are not linked or related in any way shape or form.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Does cheating during the exam count?

I didn't have to cheat to get good grades. I did good in the things I liked. It's really not that hard a concept to understand Jason. Twisted Evil

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Were you drowing or something?

Hardy har har... Rolling Eyes

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Wrong? Don't be ridiculous.

Yeah I guess it was pretty silly of me to think you'd admit to something you aren't willing to see. Razz

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Man enough to admit what? That you are wrong? Yeah, I admit it.

Hardy har har... Rolling Eyes

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

If you ever admitted that you were wrong, I've never found out
And yes, I'm the proud one.

LOL Oh yeah... you might actually see it again someday too if you showed up more than once or twice a month! Razz

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Thank you.

You're most generously welcomed.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

What? I still can't get ya.

Not surprised. There are very few who "get me". :wink:

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heph

One consideration that sometimes comes to mind, as a metaphor, is that God puts humans in Hell and expects them to find happiness. Because anywhere that you can be happy is heaven, this happiness is something no one can take away from you.
Then the purpose is the very struggle of our lives, to be happy.

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That makes sense. Cool

Thanks.

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Yer welcome. Smile

Strange btw, what different people see as 'sense'. I'd have to peddle that idea for hours before certain others would even consider the terms involved anything but offensive. Get that, if you can.. Very Happy

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hephzibah wrote:

Righto So show me the proof that the bluejay mutated to adapt to it's environment and THEN we'll have something to talk about.

I'm not going to jump through your hoops engulf in flames of ignorance. If you tell me that the blue jay did not evolve from a common anscestor, even though the theory of evolution supports it, you need to open your eyes and see the light.

hephzibah wrote:

Resemblance means nothing.

Really?

hephzibah wrote:

You know how they say everyone has a twin somewhere in this world? Well, I met mine, and yes we could pass for twins. Identical twins. However, she is mexican, I am french... I think... probably some indian in there too. So we resemble each other enough to pass as twins, yet we are not linked or related in any way shape or form.

You probably know by now that we humans belong to the same racethus the resemblance.

hephzibah wrote:

I didn't have to cheat to get good grades.

Tell me somethingwhy the inability understand evolution?

hephzibah wrote:

I did good in the things I liked. It's really not that hard a concept to understand Jason.

Really? I can REEEEALLY tell.

hephzibah wrote:

Yeah I guess it was pretty silly of me to think you'd admit to something you aren't willing to see.

If I'm not willing to see, it is because it hasn't been properly explained to me.

hephzibah wrote:

LOL Oh yeah... you might actually see it again someday too if you showed up more than once or twice a month!

Because the world I live in makes so much sense to me, I come here twice a month to read nonsense and crazy arguments.it keeps me sharp.

hephzibah wrote:

Not surprised. There are very few who "get me". :wink:

You need to improve your communication skills then.
Twisted Evil

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How can you not believe in evolution? Also ideas on Genesis

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