What should I have done in this situation?

martybarker wrote:

So maybe like Little K said, try being nice,if she continues being bratty just ignore her. I bet she'd eventually come around,especially if she sees you playing around with the other kids.

Aha, I have tried that. The second-to-last time I was there, we all went to a theme park, and she acted all snotty and bratty to me right from the get-go, so I said to my nephew, loudly, "okay, we don't need her then, do we, Nick! It's you and me, buddy!" And I did pretty much ignore her from that point on. She still acted like a brat, and this last visit, she might have even been worse. I did have fun with my nephew though, and he was even somewhat well-behaved, which was a surprise, because he is usually a wild, uncontrollable maniac.

Oh, there is one other factor here that might have something to do with this. This last visit was for my grandmother's funeral, and there was always a shitload of people around, including tons of kids, and my insane aunts who were having big dramatic fights and arguments, and getting all emotional at pretty frequent intervals.

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kickycan wrote:

Well then I guess I'm not going to get better at it then.

Dammit, now I'm going to have to dread my next vacation even more than usual.

Okay, I'm going to give you the easy way out (coward). Buy each kid a present and wrap them in really cool kid paper. Tell the kids they will only get the goods if they behave like civilized creatures. Then go and lock the gifts in your car so they can't get at them. If a kid is good they get a present, no good - no goodies. They get nothing until you are ready to go home. Don't get expensive stuff, just little stuff you know they would like. They will behave because the mystery of the actual gift will drive them crazy. I would only do this every few visits (keep them guessing) and next visit just remind them how good you know they can be and tell them only a trained monkey expects a reward every time it does something right.

I still think you need to have a talk with the brat, but sometimes a reward helps them to focus and become to more motivated.

(I hope I'm making sense as it's getting past my bedtime)

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Greenwitch, you'd have given my niece nightmares for weeks. Some kids are sensitive.

Kicky, do you have to be the best friend to all your little relatives? Is your nephew older or younger than your neice? I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. I know that funerals do interesting things to family dynamics.

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littlek wrote:

Greenwitch, you'd have given my niece nightmares for weeks. Some kids are sensitive.

I doubt your neices are stealing trail mix with their bare hands.

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littlek wrote:

your next vaca is when? Xmas? You don't have to bunch up your 'learning experiences'. Anyway, the kids will grow too, so they will become less obnoxious one way and more obnoxious a different way (I use the term obnoxious with affection).

Thanksgiving. Yeah, I guess so. I just don't want her to grow up thinking it's okay to treat me like some kind of door mat.

The thing I'm most pissed about now though is that I went and told me mother. I think I was having a weak moment when I said that. What a f*cked up weekend it was. I might not have said anything if I hadn't just spent so much time around my aunt's son, who is a twenty-four-year-old assh*le with no respect for anyone, including his own mother, and an openly confrontational attitude to everyone that has the misfortune of having to cross paths with him.

Damn, I wish I hadn't said anything to my mother. I should have known she would have to go blab to my brother about it. What an idiot I am!

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Green Witch wrote:

kickycan wrote:
Well then I guess I'm not going to get better at it then.

Dammit, now I'm going to have to dread my next vacation even more than usual.

Okay, I'm going to give you the easy way out (coward). Buy each kid a present and wrap them in really cool kid paper. Tell the kids they will only get the goods if they behave like civilized creatures. Then go and lock the gifts in your car so they can't get at them. If a kid is good they get a present, no good - no goodies. They get nothing until you are ready to go home. Don't get expensive stuff, just little stuff you know they would like. They will behave because the mystery of the actual gift will drive them crazy. I would only do this every few visits (keep them guessing) and next visit just remind them how good you know they can be and tell them only a trained monkey expects a reward every time it does something right.

I still think you need to have a talk with the brat, but sometimes a reward helps them to focus and become to more motivated.

(I hope I'm making sense as it's getting past my bedtime)

A good possibility. I guess I could try that.

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kickycan wrote:

Damn, I wish I hadn't said anything to my mother. I should have known she would have to go blab to my brother about it. What an idiot I am!

Why is it bad for the parents to know their daughter is being a brat? It's not your fault. You are not the idiot in this scene.

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littlek wrote:

Greenwitch, you'd have given my niece nightmares for weeks. Some kids are sensitive.

Kicky, do you have to be the best friend to all your little relatives? Is your nephew older or younger than your neice? I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. I know that funerals do interesting things to family dynamics.

I don't know what you mean by your first question. I'm just being me. My nephew is five.

Thanks for your regrets about my grandmother. And with this family, the dynamics are doubly interesting. My aunts are loveable, but seriously, they are nuts.

Here's an example. My aunt's son (the assh*le I described above) was left one of those italian horns on a chain by my deceased grandmother. This caused one of the weekend's bigger emotional family blow-ups, because my insane born-again aunt thinks that the horn is a sign of devil worship, and wanted him to throw it away. HUGE fight.

And that's only one example. The weekend was jam-packed with moments like this. Very entertaining people.

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Green Witch wrote:

kickycan wrote:

Damn, I wish I hadn't said anything to my mother. I should have known she would have to go blab to my brother about it. What an idiot I am!

Why is it bad for the parents to know their daughter is being a brat? It's not your fault. You are not the idiot in this scene.

Yeah, but I should have known what would happen. Actually, the minute it was out of my mouth, I knew it was a mistake to say anything, and wished that I could have taken it back.

I should have waited until the next time I went home and tried to deal with it my own way. Now I have no control over what the hell is going on.

Okay, now I'm getting really tired. Thanks guys. I'm going to bed.

Goodnight.

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Goodnight, Kicky. I'll go ahead and post here while you're sleeping...

I agree with Green Witch. The parents are the problem. Are they present when your neice speaks to you like that?

The reason I ask is, if I'd talked to an adult that way when I was a kid, my parents would have corrected me on the spot. Especially my father. He was great at yelling and could really put the fear of God in you.

Oh, I know all the shrinks today would say that's wrong, but it sure worked with me. Too many parents today are scared of their kids.

It also seems passive-aggressive of your bro and sis-in-law if they just sit back and let their little darling talk to you like that. (Funny how they finally had a talk with her once your mother expressed her disapproval.)

After all, you're the brother who gets to live in NYC. They probably think you're always going to cool places, hanging out with cool people. Your the one who gets to take trips to places like California (well, it would've happened if your cat hadn't gotten sick).

Maybe the other relatives are somewhat impressed with you too? They might express some excitement when you come to visit, because they don't get to see you as much.

So, maybe your brother and sister-in-law are feeling a little envious? And their way of evening the score, subconsiously at least, is to let their little princess make embarrassing, humiliating remarks to you -- thereby taking you down a peg.

On the other hand, maybe they're just not very good disciplinarians, and their kids are out of control -- which brings us back to "parents who are scared of their kids."

So, maybe you should just do what I do the next time you go to a family event:

1) Have a few drinks
2) Look around the room and see if you can pinpoint one or two relatives whom you enjoy talking to -- the ones who don't have any screeching banshee kids or punk sons.
3) Hang out with them as much as possible and let someone else get the kicks to the balls and the snotty remarks.

And I'm sorry to hear about your grandma too.

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Just wanted to say....

Aww Kicky, give yourself some slack. Ya did pretty good. You have a good heart and are trying.

You could be "uncle drunky" who stumbles into bedrooms at night. But you're not (as far as I know). Smile

Hope a good sleep brings a better view. And I'm sorry to hear about your grandma.

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I don't think you can do much about her ignoring you, but if she's being rude, I think the best thing is not let it settle, or she'll get the impression, this is acceptable.
I would expect the mother/father to interfere, too, if their child is behaving inappropriately.
If they don't, tell her, that you will not be spoken to in a way like that.
Explain, that it is rude and you fell hurt/insulted, whatever fits the situation.

At 7 or 8 I am sure, she will be able to understand.

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Hey kicky. Flushd is right. Cut yourself some slack. Kids can be difficult to deal with and sometimes talking to relatives about things isn't as easy as it's presumed to be. Just a couple of quick suggestions here.

First about the situation that's happened because of what you said. Well, the best you can do is talk to them. Tell them you are sorry, you were upset, frustrated, and you know you should have talked to them first. All you can do is apologize now and then go on from there. If they choose to stay mad at you, well it becomes there problem because you've done as much as you can do to fix the situation. However, I would call them rather than waiting until your next visit. Only because thanksgiving is a ways away and that's a lot of time for wounds to fester, so waiting could make your next visit VERY uncomfortable, and you would probably feel better yourself if you got it off your chest sooner anyway. Rather than dreading the next visit because you aren't sure how it's going to go, you know?

As far as the kids. Just from what I read it sounds like none of them have had very good boundaries set by their parents. It is especially hard sometimes to even want to tolerate kids that have no boundaries, well, for me it is at times anyway. That would be a good place to start though with these kids.

Laying out your expectations for them at the beginning of the visit. If your niece is being bratty tell her right up front, this behavior is not appropriate and I will not accept it from you. And then as soon as she starts being bratty ignore her, quietly. Don't make a big deal of it at all. Just go on and do something else. Maybe with one of the other kids. Maybe with the adults. Chances are she is going to start being more bratty when you first start doing this because this is probably a big attention getter for her.

It may be the only way she knows how to get attention right now, but eventually when she figures out she can't get a rise out of you or attention from you by doing it, she'll start backing off. The key here though is to be looking for the positive. No matter how small, if she does something positive notice it and jump on it right away. Tell her, good job! Hey, I appreciate that thank you! or whatever the situation merits. That way you are rewarding positive and ignoring negative, only giving her the type of attention you want her to respond to. It's subtle but effective.

Good luck.

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Thanks, everyone. You know, the more I think about this, the more pissed I am at my mother for opening her big mouth. I keep picturing my niece being reprimanded by her parents, and her probably crying and being all upset because of it.

Oh, also, right around the time I found out that my mother had done this, I got a message from my sister-in-law on my cell phone, telling me she wants to talk to me about my brother's upcoming birthday party. His birthday isn't until April! Could she be using that as an excuse to talk to me about this whole thing? I think I'm going to call my brother the next chance I get and get a damage report.

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The mother's attitude could be part of it but to me what jumps out is that you did the "we don't need her" thing one visit and the next visit she was even brattier. That sounds to me like a big part of it is that she's trying to do some pre-emptive rejection -- "I'm not gonna let you reject me this time, I'm going to reject you first."

What about spending some time with just her, nobody else around? Take her out to do something she enjoys?

As a first step, I'd bet that would go a long way towards improving her attitude.

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kicky, you don't think you're being a bit overly sensitive about the situation?

I mean, it sounds like various other family members feel perfectly OK about being obnoxious or difficult & everyone else can just wear it.

All you've done is discuss a situation that's been bothering you with your mother.
The fact that she passed on your concerns (when you understood that the conversation was confidential) is unfortunate, but you can't change that.

So your niece's mother now knows that you think her daughter's behaviour is obnoxious & difficult to deal with. If she (the mother) didn't know that already then she's totally insensitive or hasn't been paying attention.

Next time you visit, relax, just be yourself & try not to be so affected by things you can't change. If it was me, I'd concentrate on the family members that it's actually pleasant to spend time with. If your niece comes around, good. If she doesn't, well, don't give her too many opportunities to be rude to you.

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Soz, I don't know about that idea. What the hell do you do with a little kid all by yourself? Do you mean like go and play in her room with her or something for a little while? I guess I could do that.

Msolga, yes, you're right about me being overly sensitive about it. For some reason, I tend to want to find ways to make myself the one who is wrong in just about every situation. Now I'm thinking that I'm the bad mean uncle who got my niece in trouble. But I know I'm not, really. Sort of.

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I dunno, take her out for lunch. Take her to the zoo. Something like that.

Msolga makes a good point about not making too much of it, though. IF your goal is to get things better between you and your niece, I think some focused time with her -- just the two of you -- would help a lot, from what you've said here.

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kicky, I can relate to your situation because in my family I was always the one who had to make the effort. Everyone else was happily doing their own thing, causing dramas & having upsets, whatever ...
It took me years before I realized that it wasn't my job to smooth things over, be "nice" in the face of unreasonableness. I used to get myself tied up in knots every single Christmas! It took years before I understood that we were all responsible for whether it was a good or bad time. Once I developed a little bit of detachment (or acted like I was detached :wink:) it was much easier to cope with & I was actually treated better.

Have you considered that there's a possibility that it might not be that your niece is in trouble because of what you said to your mother? Your sister could be angry with you for thinking her daughter is less than wonderful, you know! Some parents are like that!:wink:

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If talking to them calmly and rationally about your feelings doesn't work, and talking to them seriously and ignoring them doesn't work, they may just be looking for a reaction out of you. In which case, your best bet is to not give them a reaction, but turn the tables by doing the same thing back to them in a playful way, which will probably have one of 3 possible outcomes:

a) they get bored of the game, and stop disrespecting you

b) they enjoy the game, and the insults lose their meaning and become a playful/friendly joking around

c) you hurt their feelings, and they either become intimidated by you or feel some guilt for their own actions

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