Christianity - True or Not?

i chose Christianity because it's the only faith that can show an empty tomb. because Jesus is alive today and because it's the most relevant to everything i live for. how do i know that God exists? look around you, everything is too precise, i mean for life to be sustained on earth, gravity has to be as precise as me standing as the bottom of the ocean and shooting a bullet to the farthest stretches of the universe and hitting a 5 pence coin smack-bang in the middle. now if that was a result of some accident or just caused by chance, it is so improbable that the existence of a God is more likely to be true, in my opinion.

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rockpie wrote:

i chose Christianity because it's the only faith that can show an empty tomb. because Jesus is alive today and because it's the most relevant to everything i live for. it's the only faith that can show an empty tomb.

You are making three statements, but you have said nothing to back them up:

"it's the only faith that can show an empty tomb."- What exactly does that mean? I know that it is written in the bible, but there is a lot of information in the bible, which is at best speculation, whimsy, or downright falsehoods.

"Jesus is alive today"- If you mean this figuratively, I would have to agree with you. There are many people for whom Jesus has meaning today. Then again, one could say the same things about the symbols of many other religions.

"it's the most relevant to everything i live for"- I can buy that idea. You seem to have incorporated the teachings of Jesus in your life, just as other people have incorporated the teachings of other religions. But that does not make Christianity any more relevent than any other religion, or no religion at all.

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you seem to have a knack for picking out my minor points. either way it yet again comes down to faith, if you belive what the bible states or not is your choice, the free will that God has given you, as i am still young and am not spiritually mature either yet, i can't provide all the answers you are looking for but i can give you my opinions and what i believe i know from my short experiences of life so far.

it seems to me that everything is just too... designed to noty have a designer. i don't agree with the design argument because there are too many flaws in that, but for everything to be so precise, i just can't accept the idea that it's all by chance.

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In other words.... you believe because you choose to. Nobody should be able to counter that. Your choice is your choice.

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rockpie wrote:

you seem to have a knack for picking out my minor points. either way it yet again comes down to faith, if you belive what the bible states or not is your choice, the free will that God has given you, as i am still young and am not spiritually mature either yet, i can't provide all the answers you are looking for but i can give you my opinions and what i believe i know from my short experiences of life so far.

Those three statements that you made appeared, by the way that you described them, to be major, not minor points for you. When you ascribe it all to "faith", then anything goes. The mind goes out the window, and the deuces are wild.

All you are giving are the opinions of a very young person, who is NOT spiritually mature, as you point out. The reason that I am questioning your "take" on the subject, is that even though you admit that you are young, and not spiritually mature, you appear to be very adamant in your views. Well, maybe that is the nature of the young and inexperienced.

My point is that IMO for you to grow as a human being, it is important for you to keep an open mind, and consider the myriad of possibilities that are before you. Once a person closes his mind, he does not grow as a human being, simply regresses.

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rockpie wrote:

. . . how do i know that God exists? look around you, everything is too precise, i mean for life to be sustained on earth, gravity has to be as precise as me standing as the bottom of the ocean and shooting a bullet to the farthest stretches of the universe and hitting a 5 pence coin smack-bang in the middle. . .

These precise conditions are quite unstable. Soon, the Earth will crash into the galactic center, like a piece of dirt going down the drain. Well, I guess the Sun will have engulfed the inner planets by then. (Never mind.)

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rockpie wrote:

yes there are many things that we don't understand in this world, but what if i am right and you are wrong? if you're right, then i lose nothing, i just die after living my life very happily, always having somebody to talk to and confide in and always having somebody to provide for my needs. now if you're wrong, you lose everything because you will go to hell. now don't get me wrong i'm not condemning you, but unless you give your life to Jesus it's gonna happen. i don't want to see or hear about anybody going to hell which is why i find it necessary to spread the message. whether you listen or not is up to you, but if you found the cure to cancer would you keep it to yourself or spread the news? i was diagnosed with cancer of the brain at 15 years old and doctors gave me 3 months to live. i am now 17 and have no sign of any tumor anywhere and to me it was God.

cool, so born again christians don't need to work, god and jesus provide everything you need

crazy sort of analogy, the cure for cancer would most likely come at great expense so of course you would spread the word and hopefully reap some financial benefit for your efforts, now faith and spreading the word of god is a totally different idea, although many religions have become very rich in the process

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i chose Christianity because it's the only faith that can show an empty tomb.

Vlad the Impaler was a very famous person when he lived. He slaughtered thousands of people. He would impale his victims with a sharp stake and their bodies would hang from the stakes out in the public square burning in the sun. Nobody knows how many people he murdered, estimates range from 20,000 to 500,000 people. Needless to say, the man shown no mercy. He enjoyed the pain of suffering of people so much, he would pierce the internal organs of many of his victims and then have dinner with them as they cried out in pain and slowly died from a great loss of blood. Because of such cruelty and delight in death, people thought he was a real vampire.

Some people suffer from allergies and through exposure to the substance they become addicted to it. Some think Vlad the Impaler was allergic to blood and because he was a warrior he was exposed to a lot of blood and became addicted to it. Vlad the Impaler was the inspiration for the character we now call Dracula. (Unlike Dracula though, Vlad the Impaler did not murder to ensure his own survival, he did it because he found pleasure in it. Dracula pales in comparison to how scary Vlad the Impaler would be.)

It is unknown how he died, though it most certainly involved an unnatural death. He was a warrior as well as a person that people hated. Nonetheless, it is said that he was buried at Snagov island in Bucharest. (At a Christian monestar no less.) His tomb was later exhumed and was found to be empty. Since we know that vampires look dead, awake and rise from their tombs, the empty tomb of Vlad the Impaler must be evidence that he was a vampire that rose from the dead.

That is the same logic that you are using in your post. If an empty tomb is evidence that Jesus arose from the dead then one must also consider Vlad the Impaler's empty tomb as being proof that Dracula arose from the dead. That is, of course, if you place a favorable value judgement on the empty tomb as evidence. The empty tomb could be evidence of nothing more than an empty tomb. I'll let you be the judge of whether you believe the empty tombs are evidence of rising from the dead or if they are not evidence of such things happening.

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because Jesus is alive today

Figuratively speaking, like I assume you are speaking, Dracula is alive today as well.

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how do i know that God exists? look around you, everything is too precise, i mean for life to be sustained on earth, gravity has to be as precise as me standing as the bottom of the ocean and shooting a bullet to the farthest stretches of the universe and hitting a 5 pence coin smack-bang in the middle. now if that was a result of some accident or just caused by chance, it is so improbable that the existence of a God is more likely to be true, in my opinion.

This is known as the "fine-tuned universe" argument. Feel free to read about the argument here at Wikipedia. There are four other possible explanations, besides the one you gave, for why the Universe seems fine-tuned.

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In other words.... you believe because you choose to. Nobody should be able to counter that. Your choice is your choice.

Yes, but the wisdom of that choice can certainly be challenged.

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Those three statements that you made appeared, by the way that you described them, to be major, not minor points for you. When you ascribe it all to "faith", then anything goes. The mind goes out the window, and the deuces are wild.

All you are giving are the opinions of a very young person, who is NOT spiritually mature, as you point out. The reason that I am questioning your "take" on the subject, is that even though you admit that you are young, and not spiritually mature, you appear to be very adamant in your views. Well, maybe that is the nature of the young and inexperienced.

My point is that IMO for you to grow as a human being, it is important for you to keep an open mind, and consider the myriad of possibilities that are before you. Once a person closes his mind, he does not grow as a human being, simply regresses.

I agree.

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I know rockhead is only young, but he/she shouldn't be allowed to get away with rubbish like that. I find it equally offensive as religious people do when their wacky ideas are shown to be false. Religion is a dangerous meme. It serves no good purpose. It brainwashes the young who go on to inflict similar abuse on their own children. When I see "Christians" screaming at small children because they think they are possessed by Kindoko, or when I think of suicide bombers content that they are doing the will of Allah, I get very angry. These dangerous delusions are only worse in magnitude than the idiocy Rockhead expouses. What other word than delusion is appropriate for maintaining a belief despite masses of evidence to the contrary? The earth is not flat and supported by pillars on the back of a turtle. Nor is it 6000 years old. The sky is not a hemisphere with holes in it. People who deliberately pass on rubbish ideas to children are guilty of child abuse for which a long gaol sentence is the only possible answer.

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Steve 41oo- I hear you, and I understand your anger. Personally, I think that religion, and the tribal "them and us" attitude of most religions have caused a tremendous amount of problems for people over the millenia.

I think that the world right now is at the crossroads, all on account of two religions fighting over , "my god is better'n your god". If it were not so tragic, and potentially the catalyst that could cause total world destruction, it would be hilariously funny.

I also believe that people have the right to their own beliefs, so long as it does not affect other people. People also have the right to be stupid, lazy, and sand burrowing ostriches. It is not the way that I would live, but to each his own.

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Bartikus wrote:

I follow no such theory.

Sorry then. I figured from your prior post you may be a follower of the Theory of Christianity (which is why I asked). Sorry.

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What are the dozens of equally valid religions you speak of and why are they equally valid?

They are equally valid because they say they are. The require faith to believe in them, and it's obvious from the followers of the Theory of Christianity on this board that FAITH trumps fact/reason/etc. If someone has faith in any religion, using the argument of many Christians on this board, then that religion is as valid as any other. As far as a list of religions, I'm sure you know where to find those.

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What criteria have you used to establish the measure of a particular religion's validity?

I never said that religion was valid. I said that other religions were equally as valid as Christianity. My measuring stick is the followers faith.

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Do you even know enough about dozens of other religions to determine their equal validity or do you simply believe that it is so?(faith)

Again, if one person has faith in that religion, it has already met the same demands as the major religions in regards to proof/validity.

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What is the reason for such a belief?

I don't believe in any religion.

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rockpie wrote:

i chose Christianity because it's the only faith that can show an empty tomb.

As read in the bible.

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because Jesus is alive today and because it's the most relevant to everything i live for.

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how do i know that God exists? look around you, everything is too precise, i mean for life to be sustained on earth, gravity has to be as precise as me standing as the bottom of the ocean and shooting a bullet to the farthest stretches of the universe and hitting a 5 pence coin smack-bang in the middle. now if that was a result of some accident or just caused by chance, it is so improbable that the existence of a God is more likely to be true, in my opinion.

I wasn't asking you if god was true. I was asking you why the Theory of Christianity is true. Your answers that dealt with that question basically say "because the bible says it's true".

I hope you're not too young to see the circular argument that has just developed.

The Theory of Christianity is true because the bible says so.
The bible is the word of god because the bible says so.

Using that same argument you could say just about any religion is the truth because they all follow the same circular argument.

The koran is the word of allah because the koran says so.
The INSERT RELIGIOUS BOOK HERE is the word of INSERT NAME FOR GOD HERE because the INSERT THE SAME RELIGIOUS BOOK HERE.

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maporsche...

Your measuring stick is faith when determining that each belief is equally valid?

If someone believes in it.....then that teaching is equally valid to all other teachings/religions?

You may not have faith in any particular religion......but, you still operate by at least a "measure" of faith.

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maporsche, at least, seems to understand more what "faith" means.

You, Bartikus, are in love with your faith.

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rockpie wrote:

i chose Christianity because it's the only faith that can show an empty tomb. because Jesus is alive today and because it's the most relevant to everything i live for. how do i know that God exists? look around you, everything is too precise, i mean for life to be sustained on earth, gravity has to be as precise as me standing as the bottom of the ocean and shooting a bullet to the farthest stretches of the universe and hitting a 5 pence coin smack-bang in the middle. now if that was a result of some accident or just caused by chance, it is so improbable that the existence of a God is more likely to be true, in my opinion.

Life on this planet evolved in the gravity in which it currently exists. The fact that we are well adapted to earth gravity instead of Mars gravity is hardly a surprise.

rockpie, your conclusive evidence is just the "argument from incredulity" which is essentially "It's all too hard for me to understand...therefore it's magic"

For more information, check this out: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA100.html

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echi wrote:

maporsche, at least, seems to understand more what "faith" means.

You, Bartikus, are in love with your faith.

I understand that people often do operate on faith and for some.....more than they would like to admit.

Anyways, it would be interesting to see what maporsche has to say in regards to my previous question nonetheless.

What is love without faith echi?

.

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Bartikus wrote:

maporsche...

Your measuring stick is faith when determining that each belief is equally valid?

I don't know if I'd say EVERY belief is measured by faith is equally valid. Someone having faith that the sun will not rise tomorrow does not make that position valid to an outsider. But if my choices are the person who doesn't belive the sun will rise and someone who doesn't believe that the sun will set, their positions are equally valid in comparison to each other. Both of them lack substantial evidence to prove their points, and both of their points are 100% based on faith.

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If someone believes in it.....then that teaching is equally valid to all other teachings/religions?

Without specific examples that I may ponder, my first thought is yes. However, the teaching itself being true or not does not prove that said god is true. For example, if I told you my god said that men would have 5 fingers. And if I tried to use that 'proof' to declare that my god is the one true god I would be guilty of logical error.

I suspect that you have something specific in mind to counter that statement so I await that remark and I will be able to expound on that. I suspect a logical trap you are trying to set.

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You may not have faith in any particular religion......but, you still operate by at least a "measure" of faith.

Sure I do. As does everybody.

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Bartikus wrote:

echi wrote:
maporsche, at least, seems to understand more what "faith" means.

You, Bartikus, are in love with your faith.

I understand that people often do operate on faith and for some.....more than they would like to admit.

Anyways, it would be interesting to see what maporsche has to say in regards to my previous question nonetheless.

What is love without faith echi?

You're right that each of us has faith. Some of us (like me) would like to have less. Some of us (like you) would like to have more.

Love, by the way, is an ego trip.

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i suppose there is no conclusive evidence that Christianity is true, just as there is no conclusive evidnce that it's false. it is all a matter of choice, but in agument to the whole universe collapsing thing, scientists now say that the gravity in the universe is stable enough to hold. no big crush. i admit you all make valid points, but none good enough to dent my faith yet.

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i suppose there is no conclusive evidence that Christianity is true, just as there is no conclusive evidnce that it's false. it is all a matter of choice, but in agument to the whole universe collapsing thing, scientists now say that the gravity in the universe is stable enough to hold. no big crush. i admit you all make valid points, but none good enough to dent my faith yet.

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Christianity - True or Not?

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