1
   

Christianity - True or Not?

 
 
rockpie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 08:58 am
exactly, one question i ask myself every day is if Jesus came back today wouldi be ready? when i started doing this i was scared because more often than not the answer was no, but now it's about 50/50. i still lie now and then, which i need to repent for because otherwise i'm going to hell... better go do that now actually.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Dec, 2006 02:47 pm
rockpie wrote:
exactly, one question i ask myself every day is if Jesus came back today wouldi be ready? when i started doing this i was scared because more often than not the answer was no, but now it's about 50/50. i still lie now and then, which i need to repent for because otherwise i'm going to hell... better go do that now actually.


When you type this stuff I just want to beat my head against the wall. I'm glad that religion is going the way of the dodo, slowly but surely.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 12:10 am
maporsche wrote:
rockpie wrote:
exactly, one question i ask myself every day is if Jesus came back today wouldi be ready? when i started doing this i was scared because more often than not the answer was no, but now it's about 50/50. i still lie now and then, which i need to repent for because otherwise i'm going to hell... better go do that now actually.


When you type this stuff I just want to beat my head against the wall.


Why should you be concerned what others believe?

I thought you were the tolerant one?

Y'know, live and let live?

Don't tell me you don't practice what you preach....... Shocked

maporsche wrote:
I'm glad that religion is going the way of the dodo, slowly but surely.


Perhaps you'll need to find another wall.

from http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2002/09/24_youth.html

Quote:
Youths more conservative than their elders on issues involving religion and abortion, new UC Berkeley survey reveals
24 September 2002

By Janet Gilmore, Media Relations

Berkeley - The generation gap between youths and older adults might not be what you'd expect, and on some political issues involving religion and abortion, young people may be the most conservative of all, according to a new survey by University of California, Berkeley, political scientists.

The report, released today (Tuesday, Sept. 24) by the campus's Survey Research Center as part of the center's Public Agendas and Citizen Engagement Survey (PACES), is based on interviews nationwide with Americans ages 15 to 92. It provides a comprehensive assessment of the generation gap in American political opinions.

UC Berkeley political science professors Merrill Shanks and Henry Brady were the lead researchers, along with Indiana University professor Edward Carmines. Douglas Strand of the Survey Research Center was the study's project director. Topics and results include:

* School prayer. Fifty-nine percent of adults ages 27 to 59 want public schools to allow prayer at official school activities, such as commencements. Among teenagers, 69 percent support school prayer.

* Federal aid to faith-based charities. Forty percent of adults ages 27 to 59 support such funding. But support reaches 59 percent among the college-aged and 67 percent among younger teens.

* Religious conservatives. Young Americans show somewhat more warmth towards religious conservatives than older adults. Individuals ranked their feelings for these groups on a scale from zero for "cold" to 50-100 for varying degrees of "warmth." Although no age group showed much warmth to Christian fundamentalists, 33 percent of youths ages 15 to 26 gave them a rating over 50; 26 percent of Americans over age 26 gave a similar score.

* Abortion. Government restrictions on abortion are supported by 34 percent of adults over 26, while about 44 percent of youths ages 15 to 22 support such restrictions.

"We were surprised by the greater support among young Americans for some aspects of the conservative cultural agenda," said Shanks. "Young Americans show more conservatism on religious politics and abortion even though youths, as a group, appear to be less likely than their elders to attend religious services regularly or consider religion a guide in their daily life.

"If the youth of today maintain these positions on religious politics and abortion as the years go by, then the American public as a whole could become more conservative on these issues.".........................
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:35 am
Gotta wonder whether rl doesn't read that on which he comments, reads and just doesn't understand what he has read, or knowingly misconstrues what was written pertaining either or both to that on which he comments or to that which he cites as support.

real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:
rockpie wrote:
exactly, one question i ask myself every day is if Jesus came back today wouldi be ready? when i started doing this i was scared because more often than not the answer was no, but now it's about 50/50. i still lie now and then, which i need to repent for because otherwise i'm going to hell... better go do that now actually.


When you type this stuff I just want to beat my head against the wall.


Why should you be concerned what others believe?

I thought you were the tolerant one?

Y'know, live and let live?

Don't tell me you don't practice what you preach....... Shocked

Straw man.

Quote:
maporsche wrote:
I'm glad that religion is going the way of the dodo, slowly but surely.


Perhaps you'll need to find another wall.

from http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2002/09/24_youth.html

Quote:
Youths more conservative than their elders on issues involving religion and abortion, new UC Berkeley survey reveals
24 September 2002

By Janet Gilmore, Media Relations

Berkeley - The generation gap between youths and older adults might not be what you'd expect, and on some political issues involving religion and abortion, young people may be the most conservative of all, according to a new survey by University of California, Berkeley, political scientists.

The report, released today (Tuesday, Sept. 24) by the campus's Survey Research Center as part of the center's Public Agendas and Citizen Engagement Survey (PACES), is based on interviews nationwide with Americans ages 15 to 92. It provides a comprehensive assessment of the generation gap in American political opinions.

UC Berkeley political science professors Merrill Shanks and Henry Brady were the lead researchers, along with Indiana University professor Edward Carmines. Douglas Strand of the Survey Research Center was the study's project director. Topics and results include:

* School prayer. Fifty-nine percent of adults ages 27 to 59 want public schools to allow prayer at official school activities, such as commencements. Among teenagers, 69 percent support school prayer.

* Federal aid to faith-based charities. Forty percent of adults ages 27 to 59 support such funding. But support reaches 59 percent among the college-aged and 67 percent among younger teens.

* Religious conservatives. Young Americans show somewhat more warmth towards religious conservatives than older adults. Individuals ranked their feelings for these groups on a scale from zero for "cold" to 50-100 for varying degrees of "warmth." Although no age group showed much warmth to Christian fundamentalists, 33 percent of youths ages 15 to 26 gave them a rating over 50; 26 percent of Americans over age 26 gave a similar score.

* Abortion. Government restrictions on abortion are supported by 34 percent of adults over 26, while about 44 percent of youths ages 15 to 22 support such restrictions.

"We were surprised by the greater support among young Americans for some aspects of the conservative cultural agenda," said Shanks. "Young Americans show more conservatism on religious politics and abortion even though youths, as a group, appear to be less likely than their elders to attend religious services regularly or consider religion a guide in their daily life.

"If the youth of today maintain these positions on religious politics and abortion as the years go by, then the American public as a whole could become more conservative on these issues.".........................

Irrelevant, non sequitur cite.

Here, from a Christian source referencing a Christian survey, is a more honestly apropos citation, supporting maporsche's POV:
Quote:
Many American teens lose faith in early adulthood, study says
By Hannah Elliott
Published September 21, 2006


DALLAS (ABP) -- Six out of 10 teens involved in a church will probably not continue their spiritual commitment into early adulthood, according to a Sept. 11 study by the Barna Group.

The study, conducted from 2001 to 2006, shows that despite previously high levels of spiritual activity, many people in their 20s lose interest in religious activities and often carry that apathy into middle age ...

... As for those in their 20s, the transition from church kid to indifferent adult happens most often during college. And for most adults, the disengagement is not temporary.

According to the Barna report, even people in their 30s are less likely than older adults to be active in religion. Just two fifths of parents in their 30s regularly take their children to church, compared to half of parents who are older than 40. One out of every three parents in their 20s does the same ...
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 10:32 am
Really, Timber?

You think Barna is more objective than UC Berkeley?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 10:52 am
real life wrote:
Really, Timber?

You think Barna is more objective than UC Berkeley?


Looks like the two surveys are showing the same thing. In the Berkeley survey it's the youth that are more conservative and as they become older they lose their religious fervor and become more moderate.

Is that what the Barna survey is saying?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 11:37 am
real life wrote:
Really, Timber?

You think Barna is more objective than UC Berkeley?

Another straw man from rl, amusingly, if predictably, presented in defense of an earlier presented straw man of his. If nothing else, rl is consistent in the practice of forensics as slapstick ... one pratfall after another.

xingu wrote:
Looks like the two surveys are showing the same thing. In the Berkeley survey it's the youth that are more conservative and as they become older they lose their religious fervor and become more moderate.

Is that what the Barna survey is saying?

Pretty much. The Berkeley survey in no way supports the thesis rl attempted to present - in fact the article rl cited is irrelevant to his point, while the Barna survey, which goes directly to the point of rl's failed thesis, counters rl's point, and considered together the pair clearly refutes rl's ridiculous proposition.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 12:22 pm
Timber, thanks for the support.

RL, me wanting to beat my head against the wall from reading rockpie's posts (and many of yours) has nothing to do with tolerance. I am not forcing him, or you, to stop believing in whatever garbage you choose to waste your life on. I am not trying to keep you from doing anything you choose to do. I'm merely stating my frustration with trying to understand his POV.

You are arguing with me about things that I've never stated. An absolute STRAW MAN!
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 12:54 pm
maporsche wrote:
Timber, thanks for the support.

RL, me wanting to beat my head against the wall from reading rockpie's posts (and many of yours) has nothing to do with tolerance. I am not forcing him, or you, to stop believing in whatever garbage you choose to waste your life on. I am not trying to keep you from doing anything you choose to do. I'm merely stating my frustration with trying to understand his POV.

You are arguing with me about things that I've never stated. An absolute STRAW MAN!


Interesting that you label his views 'garbage' and 'a waste', but then admit you do not understand his view.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 12:59 pm
xingu wrote:
real life wrote:
Really, Timber?

You think Barna is more objective than UC Berkeley?


Looks like the two surveys are showing the same thing. In the Berkeley survey it's the youth that are more conservative and as they become older they lose their religious fervor and become more moderate.

Is that what the Barna survey is saying?


From the Barna website:

"The ultimate aim of the firm is to partner with Christian ministries and individuals to be a catalyst in moral and spiritual transformation in the United States. It accomplishes these outcomes by providing vision, information, evaluation and resources through a network of intimate partnerships"

I ask again, is Barna more objective than UC Berkeley?

What might motivate Barna to produce a survey indicating 'a crisis' in the faith of the church?

Would UC Berkeley have any motivation to produce a survey showing that young people are more religious than their elders?

What do you think?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:20 pm
rl marshalls his forces -
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/9822/strawpeople3tp9.jpg
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 03:20 pm
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:
Timber, thanks for the support.

RL, me wanting to beat my head against the wall from reading rockpie's posts (and many of yours) has nothing to do with tolerance. I am not forcing him, or you, to stop believing in whatever garbage you choose to waste your life on. I am not trying to keep you from doing anything you choose to do. I'm merely stating my frustration with trying to understand his POV.

You are arguing with me about things that I've never stated. An absolute STRAW MAN!


Interesting that you label his views 'garbage' and 'a waste', but then admit you do not understand his view.


Interesting that you accuse me of intolerence, and don't apologize when I point out how wrong you are.


Also, the 'garbage' and 'waste' that I stated is from MY POV. I told you I'm trying to understand HIS POV, which is obviously different than mine. I don't understand what point you're trying to make with your post. I think you're creating another straw man in your mind and arguing against that.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 03:26 pm
real life wrote:
xingu wrote:
real life wrote:
Really, Timber?

You think Barna is more objective than UC Berkeley?


Looks like the two surveys are showing the same thing. In the Berkeley survey it's the youth that are more conservative and as they become older they lose their religious fervor and become more moderate.

Is that what the Barna survey is saying?


From the Barna website:

"The ultimate aim of the firm is to partner with Christian ministries and individuals to be a catalyst in moral and spiritual transformation in the United States. It accomplishes these outcomes by providing vision, information, evaluation and resources through a network of intimate partnerships"

I ask again, is Barna more objective than UC Berkeley?

What might motivate Barna to produce a survey indicating 'a crisis' in the faith of the church?

Would UC Berkeley have any motivation to produce a survey showing that young people are more religious than their elders?

What do you think?


Are you saying that Barna is lying about their results? Or fudging numbers? Would a CHURCH of CHRIST do such a thing? If they could lie about that, do you think its possible they've lied about other things? Taking that back say 1200 years ago, do you think that that church may have lied about a few things? Maybe fudged some writings of the time? Maybe destroyed some others?

If you believe these things to be true then this is quite the can of worms you're opening up RL. I don't disagree with you, but I could see your entire belief system (based on the bible) start to tumble down if the possibility of the church lying is truly believed.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 06:19 pm
I have followed Barna surveys for several years. I have good faith in their sincerity and truthfulness. They are a Christian organization collecting information to be used by their fellow Christians. This information can aid different Christian organizations in determining a course of action to be taken by them.

To provide false information would both be detrimental to Barna's reputation and to the actions of Christian organizations using that information.

As I have said both surveys say the same thing but express it differently.
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2006 11:44 am
Why do people believe a faith if they know it wasnt the original teachings?

How can you think you will be ssaved if you dont contemplate your choice of Worship?

Do you not think that God would be angry if you worshipped somethnig he created rather than Him?

Is blind following really an excuse?
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2006 07:42 pm
Abid wrote:
Why do people believe a faith if they know it wasnt the original teachings?

How can you think you will be ssaved if you dont contemplate your choice of Worship?

Do you not think that God would be angry if you worshipped somethnig he created rather than Him?

Is blind following really an excuse?


Do you follow original teachings Abid? ...or a modernized version?

What would you do if you met an atheist like me face-to-face?
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2006 10:43 pm
I havn't read this thread but the question it asks is whether or not Christianity is "true."
I would say that it is no more or less true than are the other Abrahamic religions (Islam and Judaism). They all rest on the same kind of thinking, claims, evidence, values, etc..

Now Buddhism and Vedanta Hinduism are another matter--very different kinds of "religion"-- entirely.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2006 11:30 pm
JLNobody wrote:
Now Buddhism and Vedanta Hinduism are another matter--very different kinds of "religion"-- entirely.

That's true.
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 03:21 am
Eorl wrote:
Abid wrote:
Why do people believe a faith if they know it wasnt the original teachings?

How can you think you will be ssaved if you dont contemplate your choice of Worship?

Do you not think that God would be angry if you worshipped somethnig he created rather than Him?

Is blind following really an excuse?


Do you follow original teachings Abid? ...or a modernized version?

What would you do if you met an atheist like me face-to-face?


Yes I follow the original teachings. Innovation is a very serious offence in Islam.

[Kitabul Osool Sunnah]
"… and every innovation is misguidance and all misguidance is in the Hellfire."

Try to educate them of course, what are you implying???
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 03:29 am
JLNobody wrote:
I havn't read this thread but the question it asks is whether or not Christianity is "true."
I would say that it is no more or less true than are the other Abrahamic religions (Islam and Judaism). They all rest on the same kind of thinking, claims, evidence, values, etc..

Now Buddhism and Vedanta Hinduism are another matter--very different kinds of "religion"-- entirely.


Chistrianity is more truthful than Judaism as the original message was lost.
Islam is more truthful than Christianity as the original message was lost.

Buddhism and Hinduism believe in Dharma (correct me if i'm wrong) and reincarnation, so they are COMPLETELY different ideologies. I have my on issues with reincarnation but a new thread may be required for this.
0 Replies
 
 

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