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Tue 3 Oct, 2006 09:03 am
as a born-again Christian... i would obviously argue that Christianity is definitely true, without doubt. i live my life according to my faith and i would gladly die to prove it. however, i understand that there are millions upon millions of unsaved souls out there. now, don't get me wrongh i am not attempting to force feed my beliefs down your throat by means of some internet-adaptable spoon, but i would like to start a ''debate'' in which believers and non-believers can discuss what they think on the matter. so.... here we go!
Since all religions were created by man, they are all flawed.
None can be absolute truth.
Therefore, faith is the basis of "truth". If you believe it to be true, the for you, it is truth. But only for you.
Question #1- How does one get to prove the veracity of faith itself?
i think that is ignorant, no offense. yes, i agree that the Bible was written by men, and that the concept of religion is of man, however that does not have anything to do with faith. you must understand that Christianity is not a religion, it is a faith. other religions have a distant relationship with their ''gods'' but Christianity has a personal relationship with Jesus lord and saviour. as there is no proof for either case, obviously i cannot prove that God is real, but on the same basis you cannot say he is not real.
rockpie wrote:i think that is ignorant, no offense. yes, i agree that the Bible was written by men, and that the concept of religion is of man, however that does not have anything to do with faith. you must understand that Christianity is not a religion, it is a faith. other religions have a distant relationship with their ''gods'' but Christianity has a personal relationship with Jesus lord and saviour. as there is no proof for either case, obviously i cannot prove that God is real, but on the same basis you cannot say he is not real.
Rocky - that is why one must have faith in ones beliefs.
It is your ignorance that is showing. Discussion over!
It is not incumbent upon someone to prove a negative. It is up to the person who makes the assertion to come up with the facts.
well, i can say that i know people who have been healed of cancer through their faith, i know of people speaking in tongues, which is a language that is not comprehendable, but is most certainly a language. for example, about 3 sundays ago, in church, we had a very spiritual meeting and during that meeting a woman who has been with the church for many years started speaking in a language that nobody could undertand. however another woman, new to the church, did understand the language and she was a non-believer. it turns out it was her tribal language from northern africa and it translated as ''now is your time, come to me my child''.
You say you would die to proove yuor faith yet you describe Jesus as a saviour.
How does that work?
He saved me in a spiritual sense, it means that i'm no longer on the road to hell. he forgave me of my sins and has given me eternal life in heaven as long as i am obedient and faithful to his word. this life is nothing compared to what's on offer in the next, so death does not scare me because i know that, unless i sin and am not forgiven, i'm going to heaven. that's why i would die to prove my faith.
Cancer will sometimes go into remission...............both for the faithful and the faithless, so being cured of cancer is no proof of anything except that cancer sometime undergoes a spontaneous cure. I have been in remission for 16 years from an "incurable" cancer. So what?? There is lots of stuff that people don't yet understand, but assigning "miracles" to a god, IMO is simply immature musing.
Speaking in tongues? I have known schizophrenics who babbled nonsense "languages". People who are deeply emotionally involved in something, can sometimes go into unusual states of consciousness. I have done it, and believe me it was not on account of any faith (or drug).
Re: Christianity - True or Not?
rockpie wrote:as a born-again Christian... i would obviously argue that Christianity is definitely true, without doubt. i live my life according to my faith and i would gladly die to prove it. however, i understand that there are millions upon millions of unsaved souls out there. now, don't get me wrongh i am not attempting to force feed my beliefs down your throat by means of some internet-adaptable spoon, but i would like to start a ''debate'' in which believers and non-believers can discuss what they think on the matter. so.... here we go!
God is true and every man is a liar.
yes there are many things that we don't understand in this world, but what if i am right and you are wrong? if you're right, then i lose nothing, i just die after living my life very happily, always having somebody to talk to and confide in and always having somebody to provide for my needs. now if you're wrong, you lose everything because you will go to hell. now don't get me wrong i'm not condemning you, but unless you give your life to Jesus it's gonna happen. i don't want to see or hear about anybody going to hell which is why i find it necessary to spread the message. whether you listen or not is up to you, but if you found the cure to cancer would you keep it to yourself or spread the news? i was diagnosed with cancer of the brain at 15 years old and doctors gave me 3 months to live. i am now 17 and have no sign of any tumor anywhere and to me it was God.
Welcome to the forum, rockpie. You will find much to benefit here. Many a2kers have considerable experience in logic and rhetoric.
For your first homework assignment, I suggest you Google the term 'pascal's wager'.
Within the academic, medical, and psychologic communities, Glossolalia - "Speaking in tongues" - universally is considered psycchopathic - an aberation, a symptom of underlying cognitive flaw or defect ... just plain looney.
Moving on, never has there been any documentation of any "healing" or "cure" proceeding from, consequent to, or dependent upon religious faith, while on the other hand there is voluminous documented evidence of fraud pertaining to claims of such.
Rockpie, demonstrate, objectively and in academically valid, forensically sound manner, that religious faith be differentiable from superstition.
Another excellent resource for those inclined to put a bit of effort into understanding the religious experience:
ReligiousTolerance-Dot-Org
yes it's true... there is such a thing as Christianity. It's a regular cash cow.
One question for the bornigen.
What is explained by a supernatural god that is not better explained through natural means?
I would say nothing. I'd like you to prove me wrong.
But I won't hold my breath.
Sometimes wether or not something is true is not the important factor in deciding what to believe.
For example, I believe that every human is inherently good. Not because I just know it is so, but because I need to believe it. I need to believe that greed and fear are not the only qualities that dominate us, but that there is an ideal in all of us that we see as right and true.
It might be a dream, but some dreams are worth holding on to. The problem is to agree on which of them, and to keep remembering that they may be just that; fantasies to ease our minds.
Doktor S wrote:One question for the bornigen.
What is explained by a supernatural god that is not better explained through natural means?
I would say nothing. I'd like you to prove me wrong.
But I won't hold my breath.
One question for Doc.:
What the heck is a bornigen?
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