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THE DANGER OF GUN-FREE SCHOOL ZONES

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 09:41 am
Advocate wrote:
There are no exceptions to the rights in the B of R. The "yelling fire" thing is not an exception to the first amendment because, since it results in an immediate response. As such, it constitutes an action (as opposed to speech).

There are some conflicts between the various rights.



Please enlighten us as to what conflicts
there are among the rights of the Bill of Rights.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 09:45 am
I don't feel motivated to accept your assignment. Do you disagree?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 10:43 am
Advocate wrote:
I don't feel motivated to accept your assignment.
Do you disagree?

Yes.

I attribute your refusal more to your lack of ability
to do so, rather than to your motivation.

David
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 11:52 am
I'm easy.

A judge will not allow TV coverage of a trial. Courttv argues that this violates the first amendment. The judge replies that allowing coverage would violate the right to a fair trial under the fourth and fifth amendments.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 01:43 pm
Advocate wrote:
I'm easy.

A judge will not allow TV coverage of a trial. Courttv argues that this violates the first amendment.
The judge replies that allowing coverage would violate the right to a fair trial
under the fourth and fifth amendments.

( By what reasoning is the 4th Amendment involved ??
It is concerned with unwarranted searches n seizures. )

I will concede surface plausibility
to these propositions; however,
to my mind, thay will not withstand in-depth analysis.

Examination of the text of the First Amendment reveals
that it does NOT say that someone can do anything he wants,
as long as he works for a newspaper.
By extrapolation of the notion that a newspaper reporter
has the constitutional right to force his way into a trial,
we r inexorably led to his right to cover the jury deliberations,
to cover planning sessions of criminal investigatiions by police
or strategic n tactical planning sessions by the military in time of war
and then to reveal them to the world.
It is more than obvious that the Founders had none of this in mind.

Under the 6th Amendment, a criminal defendant
has the right to a public trial,
so that trials wud not be like the Star Chamber procedings
or the Spanish Inquisition.

The Founders meant only that anyone can write whatever he pleases,
without prior restraint, and perhaps can be held accountable
( tortiously or criminally ), for the consequences.



Candor moves me to admit
that I have not undertaken a dedicated analysis
of the Constitution to ascertain whether
any of the rights protected by it
stand in conflict with one another.

I doubt that this is the case,
but I 'll grant the possibility that
some instance thereof might have escaped my attention.
David
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 02:20 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Advocate wrote:
I don't feel motivated to accept your assignment.
Do you disagree?

Yes.

I attribute your refusal more to your lack of ability
to do so, rather than to your motivation.

David


Good shot, Dave!

Keep up the good work.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 02:53 pm
Miller wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Advocate wrote:
I don't feel motivated to accept your assignment.
Do you disagree?

Yes.

I attribute your refusal more to your lack of ability
to do so, rather than to your motivation.

David


Good shot, Dave!

Keep up the good work.


I would like to buy you a drink. You impress easily.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 04:07 pm
OmSigDAVID wrote:


We have had several IMPARTIAL respected experts on English grammar
analyze the 2nd Amendment, all of whom agreed that the operative clause concerning the right of the people was in no way limited by the considerations of the militia.

One of my tenants, an English professor of Queens College NY, a liberal Democrat with whom I 've had many ideological debates, agrees that this is the only grammatically correct understanding of the amendment.


The amemdment could as easily read:

Quote:

Due to the well known fact that a wet bird never flies at night, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


The dependent clause is merely a motivation; the clear statement that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, is the law.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 04:21 pm
Wilso wrote:
gungasnake wrote:


They say that in extreme cases, penis envy can be fatal; you might want to get yourself checked out.



What a great come back. I'm just so in awe. Wow, you're even BIGGER loser than I first imagined. It must really tiny. Does that great big gun help your self esteem?


Doesn't sound like it would take much to feel more "self esteem" than YOU do; a cap gun maybe....

The actual fact is that I hunt pretty nearly exclusively with bows and that won't change until I get out of the mid Atlantic area in about four years, and that two or three years often pass from one time I ever touch a pistol to the next.

At least that's been the case until now. A lot of people are having to re-evaluate the question of how many people society really needs walking around doing the concealed carry thing in shopping malls or other high value targets for whackos and terrorists. The answer seems to be more than you'd have thought previously.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 04:28 pm
Miller wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Advocate wrote:
I don't feel motivated to accept your assignment.
Do you disagree?

Yes.

I attribute your refusal more to your lack of ability
to do so, rather than to your motivation.

David


Good shot, Dave!

Keep up the good work.

Its always good to see u.
I have been fond of u since, and during, Abuzz.

I hope u had a good weekend.
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 04:54 pm
gungasnake wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:


We have had several IMPARTIAL respected experts on English grammar
analyze the 2nd Amendment, all of whom agreed that the operative clause concerning the right of the people was in no way limited by the considerations of the militia.

One of my tenants, an English professor of Queens College NY, a liberal Democrat with whom I 've had many ideological debates, agrees that this is the only grammatically correct understanding of the amendment.


The amemdment could as easily read:

Quote:

Due to the well known fact that a wet bird never flies at night, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


The dependent clause is merely a motivation; the clear statement that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, is the law.

THAT 's ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.


We are also informed as to whom these rights belong.

In the case of US v. VERDUGO (199O) 11O S.Ct. 1O56
(at P. 1O61) the US Supreme Court declares that:

" The Second Amendment protects
'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' ".

THE SUPREME COURT THEN PROCEEDS TO DEFINE " THE PEOPLE " AS BEING THE
SAME PEOPLE WHO CAN VOTE TO ELECT THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
EVERY SECOND YEAR. (Notably, one need not join the National Guard
in order to vote for his congressman.) The Court further defined
"the people" to mean those people who have a right peaceably to
assemble [1st Amendment] and those who have the right to be free of
unreasonable searches and seizures [4th Amendment] in their persons
houses, papers and effects (personal rights, not rights of states,
as the authoritarian-collectivists allege of the 2nd Amendment).

THE COURT HELD THAT THE TERM "THE PEOPLE" MEANS THE SAME THING
EVERYWHERE THAT IT IS FOUND IN THE CONSTITUTION OF 1787, and
EVERYWHERE THAT IT IS FOUND IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS.

In VERDUGO (supra), the Court indicated that the same people are
protected by the First, Second, Fourth, Ninth and Tenth Amendments;
i.e., the people who can speak and worship freely can bear arms.

It is most noteworthy that the Court RELIED upon its definition of
"the people". Its conclusion in the VERDUGO case is founded upon that definition,
so that stare decisis attaches, thus creating binding judicial precedent,
explaining WHO THE PEOPLE ARE who have the said rights
David
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 06:44 pm
OSD, ou remind me of Bush a little bit. Like bush, you say we should ignore what we see with our own eyes, and instead believe what Bush says.

It is a crazy stretch to read the second amendment and accept your interpretation.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 07:51 pm
Advocate wrote:
Quote:
OSD, ou remind me of Bush a little bit.

I reject that comparison.

I voted for both of the Bushes.
I did not like either of the Bushes, and still don 't.

When Reagan chose Bush,
I deemed it a mistake; I still believe that.

I am a supporter of personal freedom,
as envisioned by the Authors of the Constitution.





Quote:

Like bush, you say we should ignore what we see with our own eyes,
and instead believe what Bush says.

That 's a lie. ( I challenge u to PROVE that, and I predict that u will not even try. )
I never said that.
I did not imply it.
I do not believe it.




Quote:

It is a crazy stretch to read the second amendment and accept your interpretation.


Almost 100% of the legal intelligentsia,
as represented in their law review articles
( including such liberals as Harvard Law School 's Prof. Alan Dershowitz )
agree with the pro-freedom, individual rights position,
which has been adopted among academics as the " Standard Model "



Truely and sincerely:
U allow your ill conceived EMOTIONS
to blind u to the objective historical reality of the matter.


1. We know from their writings that NONE of the Founders
wrote in support of " gun control. "
They were all libertarians and individualists.
( except insofar as gun laws
REQUIRED civilians to be armed; that was THEIR gun control )

I challenge u to find even ONE opinion from the 1700s
in support of discriminatory licensure of personal weaponry,
or registration thereof. They do not exist.



In truth, if they were able to speak now,
they 'd condemn the NRA and Wayne LaPierre,
as a sell-out, compromise,
give-away-the-store, organization.

They all shared a l'aissez faire philosophy
of personal defensive armament ( subject to the aforesaid exception )

They ENCOURAGED gunnery competitions among private citizens,
with prizes for the winners, administered by ( among others, James Madison ).
There were no police anywhere in the USA, nor in England,
until the following century; everyone was expected to take care of himself.
His life depended on that. ( Prove me rong. )

2. As I said before, all professional experts in parsing
the English grammar of the text of the 2nd Amendment agree
that it protects an individual right, independent of any militia.
U suppressionists have NEVER offered the analysis of ANY
professional grammarian to deny this.
I challenge u to do so.
David
0 Replies
 
astromouse
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 08:57 pm
Now according to OSD, we are gonna need guns at malls also to avoid being victimized...

So OSD , where does it end?

"Bring more guns in to solve the gun problem" how can you not recognize the cognitive dissonance in your arguments?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 10:53 pm
astromouse wrote:
Now according to OSD, we are gonna need guns at malls also to avoid being victimized...

So OSD , where does it end?

"Bring more guns in to solve the gun problem" how can you not recognize the cognitive dissonance in your arguments?

It does not end;
your question is like asking a motorist
when he will stop carrying a spare tire in the trunk of his car,
or asking a homeowner when he will reject and eject
all fire extinguishers from his home.

It is like asking the citizens of Vermont or of Alaska,
who have NO gun laws ( and low crime rates ):
when will u relinquish the freedom to carry around
any guns that u choose ? or when will u relinquish the right to vote ?
David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Apr, 2007 11:08 pm
I advocate that people who have proven that thay r dangerous,
as feloniously violent recidivists,
or
as being overtly mentally disturbed, with violent tendencies,
be BANISHED and removed from contact with polite society.

The DANGER is in those defective PEOPLE,
not in their tools.


Let 's not blame a man 's obesity on his forks and spoons.

Let 's not blame rain on the possession of umbrellas.
David
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 11:47 am
OSD, you say that the founders required people to own weapons. What is your support for that statement?

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


I don't see how anyone can read the above and say that it refers to an individual right. You can't escape that the militia clause is dependent. Thus, it is clear that the right to bear is in the context of a militia.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Mon 30 Apr, 2007 03:37 pm
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 03:25 am
farmerman wrote:
While it creeps me out to agree with cj, the fact that we in AMerica cant control gun access to the unstable because the NRA, through state legislatures (and Congress) has effectively blocked any common sense approaches,


I don't believe that is a fair charge. What "common sense" approach has been blocked by the NRA?

Despite the fact that I don't think it is a fair charge *against the NRA*, I should point out that I personally think it is a good idea to block all new gun laws (even those that are reasonable and would save lives) until such time as the government decides to stop violating our Constitutional gun rights.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 03:27 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
Try as I may, I cant think of a single argument to support the case for carrying a semi automatic pistol, except that for some immature individuals it makes them feel good.


Another good reason is that it can make a mature individual feel good.

And yet another good reason is that such a gun can be used to defend against criminals.
0 Replies
 
 

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