CI - Is it your contention that Republicans are responsible for the voting systems in Democrat-controlled counties in FL? Is it your contention that the fact that poorer counties have older voting equipment which is more failure and error prone is proof of racism in our elections? Is it your contention that allegations of disenfranchisement mean that disenfranchisement occurred? (It's easy to make allegations about just about anything.)
Try looking into the facts of the hearings held by the US Civil Rights Commission, and you'll find that they failed to find a single individual who was able to come forward and show that he or she was registered and eligible to vote in the election and was prevented from doing so. NOT ONE.
Of course, the report they delivered is short on facts like this one and so partisan that the lone Republican on the commission was prevented from having any input into the report whatsoever.
We should definitely strive to improve the process and systems we use, but (reality check) the system will never be perfect. Some machines will always break down, and you'll probably find older machines in poorer counties. Some individuals will always make mistakes, and you'll likely find less literate voters in poorer counties. That many of Florida's poorer counties may be disproportionately black is a function of economics, not some evil Republican conspiracy.
Scrat wrote:
. I note that yours lacks any attribution--no link or citation as to source.
The immediate source is the Bush Watch link included at the bottom of the post. Their source for the data is the New York Times, one of the consortiun newspaperps that paid for the recount by NORC, publication date is 11/11/01. Sorry for not including the Times as a sourcs.
You guys discuss this yet?
Open Letter to John Kerry:
My wife had rotator cuff surgery earlier this year, and the recovery is
terribly painful. Then, she developed a staph-epi infection, and they had to
cut the same scar open and operate on her again. Just thinking about the
pain and anxiety of facing that painful surgery a second time in the same
wound, makes me cringe. That experience, however pales in comparison to what
I am going through right now, in my heart.
The old hurts are surfacing and the feelings of betrayal by fellow citizens,
and their leader stirring them up, are breaking my heart again. I am being
cut in the same scar. How did we who served in Vietnam suddenly become
cold-blooded killers, torturers, and rapists, of the ilk of the Nazi SS or
the Taliban? Most of us were American soldiers who grew up idolizing John
Wayne, Roy Rogers, and all the other heroes. That was why I volunteered. But for political expediency, John Kerry has rewritten history, again. After spending only four months in the country of Vietnam, John Kerry testified before Congress in 1971 with these exact words about incidents he supposedly witnessed or heard about from other vets: "They personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam." I was a green beret officer who volunteered for duty in Vietnam and fought in the thick of it in 1968 and 1969 on a Special Forces A-team on the Ho Chi Minh Trail, just for starters. We were the elite. We saw the most action. Everybody in the world knows that. But we did not just kill people, we built a church, a school, treated illnesses, passed out soap, food, and clothing,
and had fun and loving interaction with the indigenous people of Vietnam,
just like our boys did in Normandy, Baghdad, Saigon, and everywhere American soldiers ever served. We all gave away our candy bars and rations to kids. Our hearts to oppressed people all over the globe.
My children and grandchildren could read your words, and think those
horrendous things about me, Mr. Kerry. You are a bold-faced, unprincipled
liar, and a disgrace, and you have dishonored me and all my fellow Vietnam veterans. Sure, there were a couple bad-apples, but I saw none, and I saw it all, and if I did, as an army officer, it was my obligation to stop it, or at the very least report it. Why is there not a single record anywhere of you ever reporting any incidents like this or having the perpetrators arrested? The answer is simple. You are a liar. Your medals and mine are not a free pass for lifetime, Senator Kerry, to bypass character, integrity, and morality. I earn my green beret over and over daily in all aspects of my life.
Eight National Guard green berets, and other National Guard soldiers, have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and you totally dishonored their widows and families by lumping National Guard service in with being a draft-dodger, conscientious objector, and deserter, just so you can try to sabotage the patriotism of our President who proudly served as an Air National Guard jet pilot. I have a son earning his green beret at Fort Bragg right now, and his wife serves honorably in the Air National Guard, just like President Bush did, and I am as proud of her as I am my son. I volunteered for Vietnam and have no problem whatsoever with President Bush being our Commander-In-Chief. In fact, I am proud of him as our leader.
John Kerry, you personally derailed the Vietnam Human rights Bill, HR2883, in 2001, after it had passed the House by a 411 to 1 vote, and thousands of pro-American Montagnard tribespeople in Vietnam died since then who could have been saved, by you. Earlier, as Chair of the Senate Select Committee on MIA/POW Affairs, you personally quashed the efforts of any and all veterans to report sightings of living POW's, when you held those reins in Congress.
You have fought tooth and nail to push for the US to normalize relations
with Vietnam for years. Why, Mr. Kerry? Simple, your first cousin C.
Stewart Forbes, CEO, of Colliers International, recently signed a contract
with Hanoi, worth BILLIONS of dollars for Collier's International to become
the exclusive real estate representative for the country of Vietnam.
"Hanoi John," now that it works for you, you beat your chest about your
Vietnam service, but to me, you are a phony, opportunistic, hypocrite. You
are one of those politicians that is like a fertilizer machine: all that
comes out of you is horse manure, and you are spreading it everywhere.
Medals do not make a man. Morals do.
Don Bendell
Canon City, Colorado
Don Bendell served as an officer in four Special Forces Groups, is a best-selling author with over 1,500,000 books in print, a 1995 inductee into
the International Karate Hall of Fame, and owns karate schools in southern Colorado.
Acquiunk wrote:Scrat wrote:
. I note that yours lacks any attribution--no link or citation as to source.
The immediate source is the Bush Watch link included at the bottom of the post. Their source for the data is the New York Times, one of the consortiun newspaperps that paid for the recount by NORC, publication date is 11/11/01. Sorry for not including the Times as a sourcs.
That's interesting. I'm not sure what to make of this, but it just so happens that I am familiar with the NORC's Florida Ballots Project, and remembered reading this regarding the project's goal(s):
Quote:The goal of the project is not to declare a "winner," but rather to carefully examine the ballots to assess the relative reliability of the three major types of ballot systems used in Florida. The results of this assessment will help state legislatures, other decision-makers, and developers of ballot systems to work toward more reliable ballot systems in the future. The data archive containing the results of NORC's work will be available for use by the news organizations, and by sponsoring the public soon thereafter.
And this:
Quote:The intent of NORC's Florida ballot project is different from other Florida-vote-counting efforts in several crucial respects.
First, it is being undertaken by a research organization with an iron-clad reputation, developed over half a century, for nonpartisan data collection and analysis.
Second, the ballot examination includes not only the undervotes (ballots with no registered vote for president) but also the overvotes (ballots with more than one vote for president).
Third, the project does not identify "winners." Its goal is to assess the reliability of the voting systems themselves, using the highest standards of scientific accuracy and reliability.
Every voting system yields slightly different results with each pass through the ballots. NORC is using the extent of this variation to assess the relative reliability of the different systems used in Florida. The results of this assessment will help state and local governments improve their ability to assess the will of the voters--by selecting systems that count ballots with a high degree of reliability.
http://www.norc.uchicago.edu/fl/index.asp
Accord to
this press release, the NORC did no recount. What they did was examine and categorize "over-" and "under-"vote ballots, and pass the data to news organizations who then did their own counting based not on actual ballots, but on data describing the condition of the ballots.
I'd be interested to see what other organizations who used the same data as did the Times concluded.
I have spent 39 years protesting the ill concieved actions in Vietnam. I intend to spend the next forty doing the same.
The Bendell letter has about as much validity as any oher hoax floating around on the internet.
hobitbob wrote:The Bendell letter has about as much validity as any oher hoax floating around on the internet.
You think it's hoax that he wrote it or what he said? Not one in the same.
husker wrote:Don Bendell served as an officer in four Special Forces Groups, is a best-selling author with over 1,500,000 books in print, a 1995 inductee into
the International Karate Hall of Fame, and owns karate schools in southern Colorado.
Correction, he owns McDojos (if your check clears, you get your belt.) He is not highly regared in martial arts circles here in Colorado. There is also some question about his service in SF. As for his supposed "7th dan TKD," the Kukiwon (the Korean rank granting organization) has never heard of him, and he has been asked to stop claiming he is affiliated with the World TKD Federation. Especially since he charges his students about $1000.00 per dan promotion for Kukiwon certification.
In addition, I find it had to believe anyone has written 1.5 million books!
All in all, he sounds like a typical republican,corrupt and greedy, and a liar!
husker wrote:hobitbob wrote:The Bendell letter has about as much validity as any oher hoax floating around on the internet.
You think it's hoax that he wrote it or what he said? Not one in the same.
What he said.Although I would not doubt its someone using his name...
From DonBEndell.com:
Quote: If you would like to learn the arts of Tae Kwon Do and Karate, with some sprinklings of Judo and Jujitsu, in the privacy of your own living room, we will soon be featuring that on our BENDELL KARATE website. That's right: Interactive Martial Arts classes in the privacy of your living room for less than a dollar a day. BENDELL KARATE is primarily owned and operated by our second youngest son, Master Brent Bendell, a popular champion himself, and the website is very exciting to view. Click above and take a look.
Can you say FRAUD?
BTW, Bendell TKD's website is currently down.
I have met the man, and was not impressed. But that is solely
my opinion.
I bet if he agreed with your politics, you would have a higher impression of him.
No, if he agreed with my politics I would still think he was a fraud. A fraud who agreed with me politically, but still a fraud.
I'm something of a martial arts purist.
There are martial artists in Colorado whom I admire rgeatly, and disagree with politically, who are ten times the person this character is. Chuck Sereff, the head of the USTF comes to mind, as does Dennis Palumbo, who teaches Shotokan and Hakko Ryu Jujutsu in Aurora. Both make McCain look like a dove. Both have extensive military backgrounds ( Sereff was SF in Vietnam, with a documentable record, not just photographs on a website.), and Palumbo was with the Air Force's OSI (sort of like the Army's CID).
Scrat, the numbers do not identify the winner or loser, you have to make your own judgment. What the data does show is the margins given various categories of ballots or legal situations, for example the margin if a four county recount had occurred as the Gore campaign had requested, in which case Gore lost. To my mind the crucial category is; all correctly marked, fully punched and scanned ballots, which shows Gore with a margin of +115 ballots. One of the bedrock assumption in any democracy is that all of the valid votes will be accurately counted.
hobitbob wrote:husker wrote:hobitbob wrote:The Bendell letter has about as much validity as any oher hoax floating around on the internet.
You think it's hoax that he wrote it or what he said? Not one in the same.
What he said.Although I would not doubt its someone using his name...
Let's find out - I'll email him and invite him here to see if we can, I like proving things either direction or turn it takes.
want his email address??
I have it. Did you look at his website? It was apparently written by him.
Don Bendell.com
Context makes a difference. Bendell said it this way.
Quote:How did we who served in Vietnam suddenly become cold-blooded killers, torturers, and rapists, of the ilk of the Nazi SS or the Taliban? Most of us were American soldiers who grew up idolizing John
Wayne, Roy Rogers, and all the other heroes. That was why I volunteered. But for political expediency, John Kerry has rewritten history, again. After spending only four months in the country of Vietnam, John Kerry testified before Congress in 1971 with these exact words about incidents he supposedly witnessed or heard about from other vets: "They personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam."
And John Kerry said it this way in
his testimony to congress
Quote:
I would like to talk on behalf of all those veterans and say that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.
They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
Too true. But misquoteing others is the stock in trade of such hyper-patriotic tirades. If they quoted others accurately, their own mistakes would shine through even brighter!
