0
   

Bush Supporters' Aftermath Thread III

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 12:32 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
McTag wrote:
McG you are one twisted arsehole posting that.

We bombed hundreds of thousands of these people to death, and you have been one of the foremost apologists of the aggression, on these threads for years.


Lots of terrorist apologists here at A2K, McT. Funny ... I don't recall you ever bringing them to task.

Quote:
That doesn't give bloodthirsty militarist like McG the right to indulge in a group hug here, which is what he obscenely did, when he has supported the bombing of innocents abroad, and consistently given support to the criminal and dishonest Bush administration.


You are now displaying the same sort of mind-fart your leftist brethren did when they suggested I couldn't suggest someone display proper manners because I posted some Ann Coulter articles. "Twisted arsehole" indeed.


"Terrorist apologists"? Are you referring to those who think the Iraqis have the right to defend themselves in their own country?
Otherwise your phrase is meaningless.

Anyway, I want to hear from the twisted one himself. Why did he see fit to reproduce here a propaganda picture of the US military embracing one of the remaining Iraqi children they have not killed?

If I sometimes regrettably forget my manners, the provocation in this obscene hypocrisy is great.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 01:51 pm
McTag wrote:


"Terrorist apologists"? Are you referring to those who think the Iraqis have the right to defend themselves in their own country?
Otherwise your phrase is meaningless.

Anyway, I want to hear from the twisted one himself. Why did he see fit to reproduce here a propaganda picture of the US military embracing one of the remaining Iraqi children they have not killed?

If I sometimes regrettably forget my manners, the provocation in this obscene hypocrisy is great.


McTag, you should know better. You forget that this thread is reserved for the delusional idiots who can't seem to come to grips with the fact that their country and their leaders have been responsible for the deaths of thousands upon thousands of innocents. Not to mention the untold misery that they've heapoed upon Iraq, or the WMDs used or the disproportionate use of force.

Then they have the temerity to hide behind this stupid sad sad joke that they are bringing freedom and democracy. Have any of these people even stopped to consider for a moment just how bad the track record is on this. Let's try another experiment; maybe the next country will lose 3-4 million, tops.

The idea is to perpetuate what's good for the USA, to advance the interests of the USA. It has nothing, NOTHING at all to do with benefitting other countries and people.

Why else would the USA be at the bottom with respect to aid given and at the top with respect to sales of armaments around the world. They were in tight with the Taliban until it no longer suited their purpose and they were in tight with Saddam all thru the time he was using WMDs on the Iranians and the Kurds.

It's no wonder that they kept him close and quiet until he could be permanently silenced.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 02:08 pm
Some more scummy behavior for these bush' supporters to celebrate. Just where is their moral compass buried? Deep deep in their black hearts?

Quote:


Bush Admin Makes White House Visitor Records Disappear
By Paul Kiel - January 5, 2007, 4:43 PM

What do you do when there are public records showing the details of visits by a corrupt lobbyist and his associates? If you're the Bush White House, you do what you do best: make them disappear!

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002290.php




Quote:
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 03:00 pm
McTag wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
McTag wrote:
McG you are one twisted arsehole posting that.

We bombed hundreds of thousands of these people to death, and you have been one of the foremost apologists of the aggression, on these threads for years.


Lots of terrorist apologists here at A2K, McT. Funny ... I don't recall you ever bringing them to task.

Quote:
That doesn't give bloodthirsty militarist like McG the right to indulge in a group hug here, which is what he obscenely did, when he has supported the bombing of innocents abroad, and consistently given support to the criminal and dishonest Bush administration.


You are now displaying the same sort of mind-fart your leftist brethren did when they suggested I couldn't suggest someone display proper manners because I posted some Ann Coulter articles. "Twisted arsehole" indeed.


"Terrorist apologists"? Are you referring to those who think the Iraqis have the right to defend themselves in their own country?
Otherwise your phrase is meaningless.

Anyway, I want to hear from the twisted one himself. Why did he see fit to reproduce here a propaganda picture of the US military embracing one of the remaining Iraqi children they have not killed?

If I sometimes regrettably forget my manners, the provocation in this obscene hypocrisy is great.


Because this is my thread, douchebag. If you don't like what I post in it, piss off then.

Read what you wrote there you terrorist loving dillhole.

A propaganda pic? Hardly. Well, maybe for a terrorist lover like you it might be, but to the rest of humanity, it isn't.

Insurgents killed the girls parents. Get it asswipe? I-N-S-U-R-G-E-N-T-S. I spell it out for you because you are obviously too stupid to understand what the word means.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 03:26 pm
McGentrix wrote:


Because this is my thread, douchebag. If you don't like what I post in it, piss off then.

Read what you wrote there you terrorist loving dillhole.

A propaganda pic? Hardly. Well, maybe for a terrorist lover like you it might be, but to the rest of humanity, it isn't.

Insurgents killed the girls parents. Get it asswipe? I-N-S-U-R-G-E-N-T-S. I spell it out for you because you are obviously too stupid to understand what the word means.


This is NOT your thread you idiot! You post something in a public forum and it stands, ready to be addressed. You have the most simplistic view of freedom of expression. This is sooo conservative, soooooo neocon of you.

Propanganda pure and simple, McG. If you were even remotely close to a fair and balanced type, then it wouldn't be propaganda but since your entire agenda is to defend the criminal action of the USA then we know what it is.

How many orphans are there whose parents were killed by the phosphorus bombs of Fallujah? How many orphans are there because of shock and awe? The aftermath of this illegal invasion is not measure by one man holding a child.

There are over a half a million dead Iraqi kids just from that stupid embargo. Grab a brain, willya.

Is it not the responsibility of the invaders to ensure the safety of the general population? Instead of hiding in the green zone, why not get out into the general population and provide a little protection. Can you say, "extremely poor planning"?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 03:31 pm
McGentrix wrote:

Insurgents killed the girls parents. Get it asswipe? I-N-S-U-R-G-E-N-T-S. I spell it out for you because you are obviously too stupid to understand what the word means.


US Marines Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich shot five unarmed Iraqi civilians ordered out of a white taxi after his unit took casualties in a roadside bombing in Haditha last November, according to a Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) report. Marines ordered four students and the taxi's driver out of the vehicle and then Wuterich shoot them one by one from about 10 feet away ... ...
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 03:57 pm
Quote:


New Iraq Commanders Differ
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 10:54 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush is installing two experienced commanders from vastly different backgrounds to carry out the new Iraq policy he will announce next week, substituting them for generals who had qualms about a fresh buildup of U.S. troops in the war zone.

One of the new military chiefs, Lt. Gen. David Petraeus, is an Iraq veteran who wrote a Princeton dissertation titled ''The American Military and the Lessons of Vietnam.'' Iraq has drawn more and more comparisons to that quagmire.

...

Some former military officers said whether the two succeed depends less on their resumes than on Bush's new policy, which he will announce as early as Wednesday. Adding thousands of additional U.S. troops to the 132,000 already there is a leading proposal he is considering, along with new economic and political approaches.

''It's the policy that's at fault here, not the personnel,'' said Tony McPeak, Air Force chief of staff during the administration of George H.W. Bush. Switching people without a good new plan will only be like putting ''old wine in new bottles,'' he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Changing-Commanders.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin



It's so ironic. This incompetent boob just keeps moving the pieces around on the board without the faintest idea of what he's doing and he can't be replaced.

There really has to be a constitutional amendment for that next time [god forbid] when a president with the intellectual capacity of, at the very least a dimwit, gets elected.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 03:59 pm
McGentrix wrote:
McTag wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
McTag wrote:
McG you are one twisted arsehole posting that.

We bombed hundreds of thousands of these people to death, and you have been one of the foremost apologists of the aggression, on these threads for years.


Lots of terrorist apologists here at A2K, McT. Funny ... I don't recall you ever bringing them to task.

Quote:
That doesn't give bloodthirsty militarist like McG the right to indulge in a group hug here, which is what he obscenely did, when he has supported the bombing of innocents abroad, and consistently given support to the criminal and dishonest Bush administration.


You are now displaying the same sort of mind-fart your leftist brethren did when they suggested I couldn't suggest someone display proper manners because I posted some Ann Coulter articles. "Twisted arsehole" indeed.


"Terrorist apologists"? Are you referring to those who think the Iraqis have the right to defend themselves in their own country?
Otherwise your phrase is meaningless.

Anyway, I want to hear from the twisted one himself. Why did he see fit to reproduce here a propaganda picture of the US military embracing one of the remaining Iraqi children they have not killed?

If I sometimes regrettably forget my manners, the provocation in this obscene hypocrisy is great.


Because this is my thread, douchebag. If you don't like what I post in it, piss off then.

Read what you wrote there you terrorist loving dillhole.

A propaganda pic? Hardly. Well, maybe for a terrorist lover like you it might be, but to the rest of humanity, it isn't.

Insurgents killed the girls parents. Get it asswipe? I-N-S-U-R-G-E-N-T-S. I spell it out for you because you are obviously too stupid to understand what the word means.


Your own very low standards are slipping there, McG

Insurgents killed the girl's parents. We sympathise with her. I resent the US military using the picture though, because they have killed so many like her and even refused to count the bodies.

Spitting mindless and illogical invective at me does not get you over the hypocrisy of the act.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 04:04 pm
"Terrorist lover"? Really.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 05:16 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
McGentrix wrote:

Insurgents killed the girls parents. Get it asswipe? I-N-S-U-R-G-E-N-T-S. I spell it out for you because you are obviously too stupid to understand what the word means.


US Marines Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich shot five unarmed Iraqi civilians ordered out of a white taxi after his unit took casualties in a roadside bombing in Haditha last November, according to a Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) report. Marines ordered four students and the taxi's driver out of the vehicle and then Wuterich shoot them one by one from about 10 feet away ... ...


It would be accurate to say that Sgt. Wuterich (and others) are charged with 'unpremeditated murder' due to improper procedures. They have not been charged with the charges cited by Walter who did not choose source what appears to be a scurilous smear. The Marines charged in this case also deny their guilt and are entitled to a full hearing and trial before anybody can say they did it with certainty. If they are found guilty, the full force of military law will be brought against them and that is no slap on the wrist. If they are found innocent, Senator Murtha will most likely lose a lawsuit in which he is charged with defaming Sgt. Wuterich and misusing his office in the process.

Even if Wuterich and the others are found guilty, that certainly will not negate the many tens of thousands of acts of kindness and the very real humanitarian efforts demonstrated by our men and women in uniform in Iraq.

SOURCE

SOURCE
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 06:01 pm
Foxfyre writes: The Americans
Foxfyre wrote:
charged in this case also deny their guilt and are entitled to a full hearing and trial before anybody can say they did it with certainty.

Unlike, of course, Iraqis or Afghanis apprehended by the Americans on suspicion of murder or, well, pretty much anything, who can be held without trial in Guantanamo for any indefinite number of years and who are assumed to be guilty by the conservatives here without hesitation.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 06:05 pm
McTag wrote
Quote:
Your own very low standards are slipping there, McG

Insurgents killed the girl's parents. We sympathise with her. I resent the US military using the picture though, because they have killed so many like her and even refused to count the bodies.

Spitting mindless and illogical invective at me does not get you over the hypocrisy of the act.


Well McG should not have called you names nor should you have called him names. You started it. And even if his remarks were inappropriate, they do seem to have a basis in fact. They are certainly not as offensive as spitting mindless and illogical, not to mention baseless and unsupportable, invective (aka slander) re our military, not to mention mindless and illogical assertion by implication that you consider the terrorists to simply be "Iraqis who are defending themselves" which has to be the second dumbest post made today. Hence an impression that your sympathies are with the terrorists no matter how many tens of thousands of Iraqis they murder in most viscious ways. Some could logically extrapolate that into sympathy for terrorists.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 06:16 pm
nimh wrote:
Foxfyre writes: The Americans
Foxfyre wrote:
charged in this case also deny their guilt and are entitled to a full hearing and trial before anybody can say they did it with certainty.

Unlike, of course, Iraqis or Afghanis apprehended by the Americans on suspicion of murder or, well, pretty much anything, who can be held without trial in Guantanamo for any indefinite number of years and who are assumed to be guilty by the conservatives here without hesitation.


Whether or not you approve of our holding prisoners of war, which is how most Conservatives view them, these people are treated quite well. Are you comparing that to smearing the names of American military who may be innocent and will not be judged guilty until such time as a court of law finds them guilty?

And are you of the opinion that people who blow up markets and police stations and schools and crowded streets with the intention of killing and/or maiming as many innocent Iraqi men, women, and children as possible are simply "freedom fighters" or honorable Iraqis who are simply defending themselves against unprovoked aggression?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 06:16 pm
Did you mean vicious
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 06:17 pm
McTag wrote:
I resent the US military


I believe that sums up your entire premise for posting here.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 06:27 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Oh, and then there's this:

Rick Moran at the Right Wing Nut House wrote:
ANN COULTER: CONSERVATIVE LOUT
CATEGORY: Politics, Ethics

I have pretty much ignored Ann Coulter for the last year or so. As her celebrity has grown [..] she has had to make ever more outrageous and off the wall statements in order to maintain her position as a "controversial" commentator. This has often placed her at odds with many of us who, while generally in agreement with much of her critique of American liberalism, nevertheless recoil in horror and disgust at her rhetoric.

She has descended into a black hole of necessity from which there is no escape; where she is forced to please her rabid base of red meat conservatives usually by going beyond the bounds of decency and proper public discourse in order to make a point that could have been made without resorting to the kind of hurtful, hateful, personal attacks that have become a hallmark of her war with liberals.

Make no mistake. Ann Coulter is a brutish lout, a conservative ogre who should be denied a public platform to spout what any conservative with an ounce of integrity and intellectual honesty should be able to see as unacceptable. [..]

I have been told not to take what she says so seriously, that this is her "shtick." I, like the Queen of England, am not amused. [..] the networks who use Coulter as some kind of "Spokesman" for the right should be told in no uncertain terms by as many of us as possible that she doesn't speak for any conservatives that we want to be associated with. [..]

Thank you very much, Ticomaya, for posting this. It goes some way in (re)persuading me that even in today's Rovian world of conservatism, there are still holdouts of conscientious independents - people who are willing to measue their own against the same yardstick they apply to the other side.

Quote:
But my commenter SSheil put it nicely:

I think this post (and several others relating to the same topic) is illustrative of what I see is generally the largest difference between blogs on the right and left. As with Rick's blog, most blogs on the right are not shy of taking our leaders, writers and speakers who represent the Right to task when they individually or collectively "step on their d*cks."

When was the last time you saw one of Ted Kennedy's incoherent rants brought to task by Kos kids or readers over at DU? Or Pelosi? Or Dean? Or Durbin?

Well, I cant judge this claim because Ive never been at DU, and only a literal once or twice at the Daily Kos. But here on A2K, my impression has certainly (unsurprisingly) been a virtual mirror image of this observation.

Look at what people like Ebrown, I or, less expansively, a host of other liberals/leftists have said about Hillary. She's positively despised among a significant share of A2K leftleaners. Look at the thread I started in '04 about "the lies and foibles of John Kerry". Most liberals here made clear that they liked Kerry about as much as they do their dentist: gotta vote or even campaign for him because its the only way to avoid worse harm (the continued Bush presidency that materialised), but liking it? No way. No lack of open, critical discussion of one's own candidates there.

On the other hand, I've seen enough claims by the like of Fox that they are critical of Bush, too - but all I come across appears to be in the vein of, "he may have made some mistakes (but anything he may have done wrong the other side has done too or worse)". The only exceptions I can think of, from the top of my head, are swing voters rather than outright conservatives, like O'Bill and Phoenix, and the occasional principled stand by the independent, libertarian current - say, Woiyo. But you Tico, or Fox or McG or LSM or Finn or Brandon or JustWonders or Timber or...?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 06:32 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
I don't believe for a minute that the President has lied about anything related to Iraq and only those who are blind, stupid, or totally ignorant of the facts perpetuate that slur.


Laughing Laughing

Point made. The true believer.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 07:49 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
They have not been charged with the charges cited by Walter who did not choose source what appears to be a scurilous smear.

A simple trick that always works: copy/paste a long enough bit from the quoted text into Google, click Search and presto.

In this case, you'll find that the text Walter posted was from JURIST Legal News and Research, a publication of the University of Pittsburgh School of Law.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 08:00 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
nimh wrote:
Unlike, of course, Iraqis or Afghanis apprehended by the Americans on suspicion of murder or, well, pretty much anything, who can be held without trial in Guantanamo for any indefinite number of years and who are assumed to be guilty by the conservatives here without hesitation.

Whether or not you approve of our holding prisoners of war, which is how most Conservatives view them, these people are treated quite well. Are you comparing that to smearing the names of American military who may be innocent and will not be judged guilty until such time as a court of law finds them guilty?

Allright, so let me get this straight.

When US Marines are accused of premeditated murder for an instance which has been documented by your own army, we have to refrain from judgement until the course of law has taken its course. In fact, to even describe them as having committed the crime they officially stand accused of by their own army, is tantamount to "smearing the names of American military".

But when the US apprehends and kidnaps Iraqis, Afghanis or others and hold them for years on end without any trial at all or even without actually charging them with anything, we can assume that they are guilty of whatever the US has not officially charged them with.

And this conclusion stands even now that the US has actually released many of its Guantanamo prisoners, after years of imprisonment, without ever charging them of anything.

Is this more or less the line of thought here?

Foxfyre wrote:
Are you comparing that to smearing the names of American military"

Am I comparing these two things, you mean?

  • Prematurely describing US soldiers as having committed the specific, documented crimes they are accused of by their own army and will be tried for in a court of law, supported by their own independent lawyers

  • Assuming that the people who have been imprisoned by the US for several years without ever having been formally charged of any crimes or ever having faced any court of law, must all be terrorists
No, I am not. If only I could.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Jan, 2007 08:08 pm
Foxfyre wrote:

Whether or not you approve of our holding prisoners of war, which is how most Conservatives view them, these people are treated quite well.

You really are going to have get with the program, foxy, get your talking points straight.

Quote:
Prisoners of War at Guantanamo
Bush Policy Endangers American and Allied Troops
by Kenneth Roth

NEW YORK -- The Bush administration thinks it deserves congratulations for its recent decision to apply the Geneva conventions to some of its prisoners from Afghanistan. The decision appears to reverse public statements by Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and even President George W. Bush himself that the detainees in its Guantánamo Bay base in Cuba didn't merit protection under the laws of war. Rumsfeld last week outlined an uncertain future for the hundreds of prisoners of the Afghan war being held in Cuba, saying that they might be returned to their own countries or held indefinitely to prevent them from taking up arms again. The United States holds 300 men from 26 countries in captivity at the Guantánamo base, as well as 194 men in Afghanistan itself.

But the new policy of the Bush administration on the prisoners in Cuba is no more than smoke and mirrors. In fact, the White House is manipulating the conventions in selective and highly political ways: Bush has said that Taliban detainees will not be granted their prisoner-of-war rights under the conventions, and that Al Qaeda detainees won't be covered by the conventions at all.

Such flouting of the laws of war does more than threaten to violate the detainees' rights to suit the administration's preferences. It endangers American troops - and the armed forces of U.S. allies - who might some day find themselves captured in combat. To justify this shredding of a widely ratified treaty, the White House has tried to suggest that the Guantánamo detainees pose novel and difficult questions of international law. But its arguments don't hold up.

First, the White House says that the Third Geneva Convention on prisoners of war does not cover members of Al Qaeda because they are terrorists, not government troops. But the convention expressly applies to all combatants captured in the course of an international armed conflict, regardless of how they are characterized.




Are you comparing that to smearing the names of American military who may be innocent and will not be judged guilty until such time as a court of law finds them guilty?

Those investigations will be a whitewash just like every other investigation that has ever occurred. You're asking the mafia to investigate and try the mafia. Doesn't work. Can you say major conflict of interest?

And are you of the opinion that people who blow up markets and police stations and schools and crowded streets with the intention of killing and/or maiming as many innocent Iraqi men, women, and children as possible are simply "freedom fighters" or honorable Iraqis who are simply defending themselves against unprovoked aggression?

[B}How would you compare that to, say,[/B]

Quote:


Vietnamese colonel to investigate Tiger Force

By Michael D. Sallah and Mitch Weiss
The Toledo Blade
November 30, 2003.

Dennis Stout was a soldier caught between the ethics of his job and surviving in an unforgiving Army.

As a military journalist, he watched platoon soldiers force 35 women and children into a pasture in the heart of Vietnam's Central Highlands.

As the people huddled - some crying-the soldiers moved the villagers into small groups and led them to the edge of the field.

Then came the gun shots, with bodies falling.

"They just killed them - mothers, with little kids and old people," he recalled.

Though he wrote for an Army newspaper, he said he was banned from reporting about the killings that July day in 1967.

It would be 36 years before the American public would learn of the elite unit known as Tiger Force, and its unprovoked attacks on Vietnamese villagers.

The platoon's war crimes were revealed in a recent Blade series, "Buried Secrets, Brutal Truths," which described the slaughter of unarmed civilians by the soldiers between May and November, 1967.

The Army investigated the case for 4 1/2 years, substantiating 20 war crimes involving 18 soldiers. But no one was charged.


0 Replies
 
 

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