More Than 13,000 May Face Deportation

Being in mixed circumstance - some are in a position to pay, others not - is a part of the illegal's world. If they were allowed to work more above board they would pay a higher percentage of taxes.

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What about the moral and human costs?

These deportations break up families. They are cruel and arbritary. They deny deserving people the opportunities they are willing to work for, when Americans are not.

They give people terrible choices between living a life of poverty and perhaps danger or living in a society that considers them (as people) "illegal" yet is willing to benefit from their work. They deny American communities the benefit of people who are eager to contribute to them.

It is very easy for you as Americans to label other human beings "illegal". But tell me that you wouldn't make the same choice if you could give your family a much better life by simply crossing a border.

The immigration laws as they stand are unjust, arbitrary. They are both overly harsh and full of loopholes for thoses with the means to exploit them. It is no wonder that people break them.

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Walter
It is illegal here as well. However, everything related to illegal aliens is looked at with a blind eye in the states.
Somehow, we have lost sight of the original question. Shouldn't all illegal aliens be subject to the set of laws?
I can't help but wonder if they deport all these people who will be left to drive the taxis in NY. Rolling Eyes

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au1929 wrote:

... These jobs that could be filled by citizens but never will because the people hiring are getting a free ride.
I live in a high rise and we recently had new windows installed. Every laborer on the job except for the foreman was a Mexican who could not speak more than two words of English. I wonder how many were here legally.
I wonder how many of these illegals pay tax?

If you did not label these laborers "illegal", and keep them vulnerable by insisting that they have no rights, this problem would go away. They would get a fair wage and would be sure to pay taxes. They would also have to compete with the Americans who were willing to do the same very difficult job

Incidently, how much extra would you be willing to pay to ensure that this job was done by U.S. citizens?

And please explain how their inability to speak English affected their ability to install your windows. (o, Tal vez el problema era que *tu* no podias hablar espanol.)

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I have stated on other illegal bashing threads that I would join their ranks if I were in an untenable situation in another country. I would come and I would work as circumstances permit. Pay taxes if able to, not pay if unable to. My intent would be honorable; therefore I would not feel guilty if unable to pay more.

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I am connected with the undocumented immigrant community here. They are very conscientious about paying taxes. Those that have a regular job have taxes deducted from their pay. Others get a Taxpayer ID number and send in their taxes as "self-employed".

Wnat's unfair is that they have taxes deducted for social security that they will never see. They accept being taxed for a benefit they will not get.

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There is also the taxes to look at as well. I know these people have their children in the public schools which creates already over crowded schools and the tax payers have to pay the bill. I agree that people should have more freedom, but if everyone decides to park themselves in one country then you're talking wall to wall people with not enough jobs to go around. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.

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The justification on the side of the illegals is that they are looking for a better life. I agree everyone would. And of course that is why our ancestors came to these shores. However, at this stage of history should we or can we hang out a shingle saying come one come all immigration laws not enforced. What do you think will happen?

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The law slows much of it and they are needed to catch the criminal element. To cut off the flow completely is an act of fear, not prudence.

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Brown

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Incidentally, how much extra would you be willing to pay to ensure that this job was done by US citizens?

If you want a job or a service performed you must pay the price.

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And please explain how their inability to speak English affected their ability to install your windows. (o, Tal vez el problema era que *tu* no podias hablar espanol.)

Of course language is no impediment to installing windows. Employing illegal aliens to do the work {which would be willingly done by tax paying citizens} should be.

Not being able to speak Spanish is no impediment. I did have 4 years of high school Spanish and am quite rusty and of course Castilian Spanish and what the Mexicans speak are quite different however, I am sure I could get by. Although I see no reason why I should have to.

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edgar, And to go one step further, this administration has created unwarranted autohrity for the justice department to arrest all those they 'deem' to be a threat to our security without providing them with legal rights. They parse words such as "they are not prisoners of war," because they don't represent a country. They use their own methids and rules to detain - even innocent, hard working, tax paying, people in this country on the off chance you look like a Arab or "terrorist." And they use their own definition of "terrorist." c.i.

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Concur, CI

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You may be surprised to hear me say this, but I think all illegals should be deported immediately whether they are shady or salt of the earth.

I think it should be tougher to get in than it is, and that English should be the National language.

I think that if people want to live in one of the the greatest countries in the world, and with all our horrible flaws and GWB and Co. not withstanding, we are a damn good deal for the entrepreneurial individual, then the price for being here should be fair and helpful, but stiff.

We can't raise the bar on people born here, but we can on people coming here, and then the wheat will separate from the chaff over time.

Either this or rewrite the rules completely. Mean what we say or say what we mean, either will do nicely. Smile

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Maybe it's my roots speaking, but I feel we are all just a heartbeat away from becoming refugees. One good disaster and - poof - everybody's on the road. My mother's family were dust bowl refugees who ended up in California after making two tries. The first time they were met at the border by police who sent them back to Texas. When circumstances dictate, populations will migrate, and laws be damned.

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Edgar
I cannot equate moving from one state to another with entering or staying in a foreign country illegally.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

You may be surprised to hear me say this, but I think all illegals should be deported immediately whether they are shady or salt of the earth.

I think it should be tougher to get in than it is, and that English should be the National language.

Yeah yeah yeah, and Judeo/Christianity should be the official religion and white should be the official skin color.

This is all well and good, but we have already fought and won this battle. There are 10's of millions of us who speak Spanish, many as a first language in addition to the perhaps 100's of other languages. Your mistake was allowing us to vote, but it's too late now.

I have faith that after this present anti-immigrant sentiment caused by 9/11 and the Bush economy, we will get back to becoming a tolerant and progressive nation -- a true melting pot.

I would argue with you, but there is no point.

You will see what I mean as 12 or 13 presidential candadates (and one sitting president) soon hit the campaign trail with well polished slogans (or speeches) in Spanish.

(I could point out that Spanish was spoken in this Country before English was, and that perhaps we should make Navajo the "official" language.)

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au1929 wrote:

Edgar
I cannot equate moving from one state to another with entering or staying in a foreign country illegally.

I think what Edgar is saying (and quite eloquently) is that family, compassion, morals and humanity are more imporant than laws. If there is a law that says that my family must starve, I will break it wether or not it means crossing a national or state border.

As a human being I will not hold it against people who break unreasonable laws to help their families.

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ebrown_p
How many poor and homeless have come to live in your house? This is the house of the citizens of the US. The laws are made by their representatives. We the US citizens are not obligated to support the poor of the entire world just as you are not obligated to accept those who have decided to live in your house.
The US should determine who they want to accept as citizens and it certainly should not accept those who chose to remain here in defiance to our laws.

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au, It's not so much that many people are living in this country "in defiance of our laws," but that this government seems to hand pick who that consists of based on race. c.i.

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C.I.

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au, It's not so much that many people are living in this country "in defiance of our laws," but that this government seems to hand pick who that consists of based on race. c.i

Where may I ask did you get your statistics?
Look around at of our present immigrants are coming from countries of people with color. What you say was true over 60 or so years ago but certainly not today.

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More Than 13,000 May Face Deportation

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