WHO WILL WIN IN NOVEMBER?

Conservatives know that there are some principles, standards, values that are beneficial and are worth preserving and should not be changed. Intentional change should always be to strengthen, improve, make better rather than destroy, diminish, reduce, weaken those principles, standards, values that are beneficial and worth preserving.

This may be the most distinguishing characteristic that separates Conservatives from Liberals.

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MarionT wrote:

One can never match the hate of the "born again" fundamentalists for the common people of the USA.

Most of the fundamentalists are the COMMON PEOPLE. So are you saying, they hate themselves??

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I would like anyone to explain to me, and to provide objective evidence, that allowing Gays to marry would 'destroy, diminish, reduce, or weaken those principles, standards, values that are beneficial and worth preserving.'

But, I know in advance that you cannot do so, so I'm going to stick with my position that there is no compelling reason to not allow people to pursue happiness in their lives.

Conservatives merely feel that their values are better than anyone who disagrees with them, is all.

Cycloptichorn

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I should add that -

Not torturing people
Not lying to and deceiving people
Not spying upon US citizens
Less governmental interference with people's lives
less wasting money

-

are apparently not principles, standards, or values that are worth protecting to Conservatives any longer, for they do not support them and think that these values should be changed.

Cycloptichorn

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Assuming that the terrible Republican gene can be inherited, it may be worthwhile to make abortion mandatory in the case of Republican women. However, many of the latter have given birth to excellent Democrats. So much for that idea!

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Foxfyre wrote:

Conservatives know that there are some principles, standards, values that are beneficial and are worth preserving and should not be changed. Intentional change should always be to strengthen, improve, make better rather than destroy, diminish, reduce, weaken those principles, standards, values that are beneficial and worth preserving.

This may be the most distinguishing characteristic that separates Conservatives from Liberals.

Cue Twilight Zone theme music . . .

Yeah, values, principles, standards . . .

Bomb 'em into the stone age

I'd fly ten thousand miles to smoke a camel (on a t-shirt showing a man in burnoose riding a camel)

Oh yeah, values like invading other nations and killing tens of thousands of people so that they can experience freedom and democracy--when the suicide bombers are on vacation.

Values like laughing on the phone to other Enron employees about fleecing little old ladies with your hard-sell pitch to sell the most worthless stock of the century.

Values like creating artificial power shortages so you can fleece the entire state of California.

Yeah, the conservatives have wonderful values--i'm glad to think of these many things which distinguish them from liberals.

HEY FOX, WAKE UP ! ! !

You're dreamin' . . .

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Those who can sort out principles, convictions, values from individual or even group decisions/activities/practices/attempts will actually understand the different between modern Conservatism and Liberalism.

Those who can focus on principle instead of the talking point of the day targeted to smear somebody will be able to sort out principled candidates from party hacks.

Those candidates who can articulate believable Conservative principles will get more votes than those candidates who don't. I believe this because I believe more Americans cherish Conservative values even when they don't know that the values are Conservative.

Those who can't just sound hateful to the other side.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Those who can sort out principles, convictions, values from individual or even group decisions/activities/practices/attempts will actually understand the different between modern Conservatism and Liberalism.

Those who can focus on principle instead of the talking point of the day targeted to smear somebody will be able to sort out principled candidates from party hacks.

Those candidates who can articulate believable Conservative principles will get more votes than those candidates who don't. I believe this because I believe more Americans cherish Conservative values even when they don't know that the values are Conservative.

Those who can't just sound hateful to the other side.

This post doesn't actually mean anything, when you look at what is written; just a long way of saying 'I am right, and you are wrong, and I don't need evidence to back that up.'

Cycloptichorn

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Party hacks we've got in the Republican Party--principled candidates are nowhere in sight.

We've had the **** since the "Moral Majority" was trotted out, and what we've gotten are a string of coporate crooks fleecing their shareholders and the general public, foreign military adventurism, and crackpot religious loonies shouldering their way into the nation's bedrooms and school boards.

It is so laughable, and disgusting, to see conservative propaganda hacks whining about values. Yeah, values at the barrel of a gun.

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Quote:

Those who can't just sound hateful to the other side.

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That's right, just sound hateful, but aren't actually hateful.

Hey Fox, tell us about compassionate conservatives.

That gag always cracks me up.

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The cognative dissonance must be unbelievable, to go through every day like that

Cycloptichorn

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The problem with so-called conservative "values" is that they are forced upon me. Why should what conservatives think about marriage have anything to do with me?

If conservatives would just leave me alone, I would be happy to leave them alone.

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Quote:

Ain't gonna happen, they have needs.

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I refuse to worry about who's in charge anymore... because really no one is... I'm just concentrating on making and salting away a shitload of cash again.... and if I do everything will be fine because that's what really makes thing run..... cash.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

Gay marriage has never (until a few recent attempts) been endorsed by any legal system or government in the history of the word. It's you who wants to change the existing practice, not us.

So? Unless you can provide a compelling reason to not change the practice, there is no reason to make it illegal.

There are a lot of things that are different than they used to be, Brandon. You'd better start getting used to it, or the next 30-40 years are going to be pretty rough on you.

Cycloptichorn

I'd rather stick to the subject, thanks. My point was that we are not trying to revoke some long standing right, but rather do not wish to grant a right which has never existed anywhere on Earth until the past few years.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

Gay marriage has never (until a few recent attempts) been endorsed by any legal system or government in the history of the word. It's you who wants to change the existing practice, not us.

So? Unless you can provide a compelling reason to not change the practice, there is no reason to make it illegal.

There are a lot of things that are different than they used to be, Brandon. You'd better start getting used to it, or the next 30-40 years are going to be pretty rough on you.

Cycloptichorn

I'd rather stick to the subject, thanks. My point was that we are not trying to revoke some long standing right, but rather do not wish to grant a right which has never existed anywhere on Earth until the past few years.

It doesn't matter if you don't wish to grant the right. All that matters is that a substantive reason cannot be given why you don't wish to grant this right. You can't reveal the underlying principles of how it causes harm to other members of society to grant this right. You can't identify compelling reasons that a court should deny this right. All you can do is say 'It's never been done this way, so we won't do it either.' Not good enough.

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

Gay marriage has never (until a few recent attempts) been endorsed by any legal system or government in the history of the word. It's you who wants to change the existing practice, not us.

So? Unless you can provide a compelling reason to not change the practice, there is no reason to make it illegal.

There are a lot of things that are different than they used to be, Brandon. You'd better start getting used to it, or the next 30-40 years are going to be pretty rough on you.

Cycloptichorn

I'd rather stick to the subject, thanks. My point was that we are not trying to revoke some long standing right, but rather do not wish to grant a right which has never existed anywhere on Earth until the past few years.

It doesn't matter if you don't wish to grant the right. All that matters is that a substantive reason cannot be given why you don't wish to grant this right. You can't reveal the underlying principles of how it causes harm to other members of society to grant this right. You can't identify compelling reasons that a court should deny this right. All you can do is say 'It's never been done this way, so we won't do it either.' Not good enough.

Cycloptichorn

In fact I can, but refuse to get into it here since it's irrelevant to my point. I wouldn't be surprised if I had already done so in some other thread. My point was to clarify the fact that the "evil conservatives" are merely trying to maintain a status quo which has, as far as I know, existed in every human society in history. That was my point, and I'm right.

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Quote:

I believe in liberty. You can have or follow any beliefs you want. Just don't try to force them on my and we will get along just fine. Unfortunately the religious right is unwilling to live this way.

ebrown,
What if I believe that having sex with 10 year old girls is ok and acceptable?
Are you going to allow me to act on my beliefs?
As long as I dont force those beliefs on you,its ok for me to have sex with children,is that what you are saying?

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

I refuse to worry about who's in charge anymore... because really no one is... I'm just concentrating on making and salting away a shitload of cash again.... and if I do everything will be fine because that's what really makes thing run..... cash.

Money, get away.
Get a good job with good pay and youre okay.
Money, its a gas.
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think Ill buy me a football team.

Money, get back.
Im all right jack keep your hands off of my stack.
Money, its a hit.
Dont give me that do goody good bullshit.
Im in the high-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a lear jet.

Money, its a crime.
Share it fairly but dont take a slice of my pie.
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today.
But if you ask for a raise its no surprise that theyre
Giving none away.

...a sort of dismal outlook, if you're serious about it. I mean yeah, money's important. But to say "I don't give a **** about who's running things as long as I get mine" just seems sort of hopeless and narrow to me.

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WHO WILL WIN IN NOVEMBER?

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