Hill and Bill; Coming Soon in Paperback...

Joe Nation wrote:

Who does that sound like? Like someone who has read about 50 reviews of a a book all of which seem to reinforce what he already believed.

There is a form of narcissism that makes you believe any faults you might have are really the faults of others.

Your off-base guesses and $2 will get you a secret decoder ring shipped direct to you in the mail.

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Hill and Bill - whatever the truth, and I'm sure there are many versions of it, what I read here and elsewhere is doubt and denial about the relationship between them, not based on any real knowledge of them as people, but on what others have written about them.

It won't matter what she wrote - many people have made up their minds about the Clintons long ago. And since so many of our reactions are based upon our own personal experiences, they are quite subjective and have little to do with morality.

When I look at the ways in which Dole supported his wife's senatorial candidacy, I shiver. It was cold, and at times mocking, and at no time did I ever get the feeling that he genuinely thought Elizabeth had that much in brains or anything else. And I found it distasteful that he leant himself to the Viagra ads, which to me is a somewhat worse invasion of privacy. But then I would think there was nothing much to write about the Doles.

Maybe there's a little envy, too, of the fact that so many are interested enough to want to read the book, despite all the moral indignation.

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I'll give you this, mamaj:
I bet a truthful autobiography of the lives of the Clintons would be much more interesting than tomes of almost any other political family, save the Kennedy's.

But, I'd be wanting the dirty bits.

You know, I do think Hill does have more to her than dirty bits. I think she is probably a courageous woman, who has pushed like mad to get to a position of power--and I do think she has a vision for this country that means alot to her. I just think her vision is a lot like Socialism, so I disagree with her vision.

Who was it.....Gail Sheehy, who wrote a rather rough biography of Hill. Interesting college days. She is an interesting person.

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Sofia:

Quote:

There was no more of a concerted effort to bring down Clinton's Presidency than any other Presidency.

Do you really think that's true? In the 20th century, can you point to any other Presidency so attacked? As much as the GOP hated FDR and Harry Truman, they didn't behave quite so badly. They told lies about Falla, sure but what was tried against WJC was a coup. Don't kid yourself, they were not trying to embarrass the President, they were trying to oust him from office from day one. That's not politics, that's revolution and it's not a healthy way to run a country.

Quote:

All politicians are out to get the other side of the aisle, all the time.

But I quess if you believe the above to be true you might be inclined to greater acceptedness of the getting, so to speak, but I don't think it is true and I wouldn't vote for any politician who thought the job was to get the opposition. I think most of our representatives, including many that I disagree with, have at their heartstone the idea that they can make this a better country. It's called Statesmanship.
.

Quote:

...-- All politicians are dirty. The GOP just thought the Clintons had been a little more careless than most, and went after them full throttle. They should have been able to pin financial misdeeds on them, but couldn't. Rather than lose this battle, they went for the bedroom.

emphasis mine.
Regards the all____ are ____. I suppose it's easier to swallow this then to live up to the Puritan code that all politicians ought to perfect.

As for the GOP, they had no right to lie, which they did , and when their lies failed to bring fruit, they exposed themselves as the self-righteous phonies that many of them are. ( I felt so bad for that poor duff who thought he couldn't be the Speaker of the House because he had fathered a child outside of his marriage. ) No wonder they worried themselves silly about homosexuality in the military, they hold themselves up as paragons of just about everything while knowing they have (gasp) flaws.

Speaking of phonies:

Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:

Who does that sound like? Like someone who has read about 50 reviews of a a book all of which seem to reinforce what he already believed.

There is a form of narcissism that makes you believe any faults you might have are really the faults of others.

Fishin' wrote:

Quote:

Your off-base guesses and $2 will get you a secret decoder ring shipped direct to you in the mail.

I think my quesses about your review readings are spot-on and I think we'd like to see a list of about 50 reviewers names and the publications in which they reviewed the book. Or did you use your own secret de-coder ring to reach your un-biased opinion?

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Sofia:

Quote:

There was no more of a concerted effort to bring down Clinton's Presidency than any other Presidency.

Do you really think that's true? In the 20th century, can you point to any other Presidency so attacked? As much as the GOP hated FDR and Harry Truman, they didn't behave quite so badly. They told lies about Falla, sure but what was tried against WJC was a coup. Don't kid yourself, they were not trying to embarrass the President, they were trying to oust him from office from day one. That's not politics, that's revolution and it's not a healthy way to run a country.

Quote:

All politicians are out to get the other side of the aisle, all the time.

But I quess if you believe the above to be true you might be inclined to greater acceptedness of the getting, so to speak, but I don't think it is true and I wouldn't vote for any politician who thought the job was to get the opposition. I think most of our representatives, including many that I disagree with, have at their heartstone the idea that they can make this a better country. It's called Statesmanship.
.

Quote:

...-- All politicians are dirty. The GOP just thought the Clintons had been a little more careless than most, and went after them full throttle. They should have been able to pin financial misdeeds on them, but couldn't. Rather than lose this battle, they went for the bedroom.

emphasis mine.
Regards the all____ are ____. I suppose it's easier to swallow this then to live up to the Puritan code that all politicians ought to be perfect.

As for the GOP, they had no right to lie, which they did , and when their lies failed to bring fruit, they exposed themselves as the self-righteous phonies that many of them are. ( I felt so bad for that poor duff who thought he couldn't be the Speaker of the House because he had fathered a child outside of his marriage. ) No wonder they worried themselves silly about homosexuality in the military, they hold themselves up as paragons of just about everything while knowing they have (gasp) flaws.

Speaking of phonies:

Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:

Who does that sound like? Like someone who has read about 50 reviews of a a book all of which seem to reinforce what he already believed.

There is a form of narcissism that makes you believe any faults you might have are really the faults of others.

Fishin' wrote:

Quote:

Your off-base guesses and $2 will get you a secret decoder ring shipped direct to you in the mail.

I think my quesses about your review readings are spot-on and I think we'd like to see a list of about 50 reviewers names and the publications in which they reviewed the book. Or did you use your own secret de-coder ring to reach your un-biased opinion?

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Joe Nation wrote:

Speaking of phonies:

Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
Who does that sound like? Like someone who has read about 50 reviews of a a book all of which seem to reinforce what he already believed.

There is a form of narcissism that makes you believe any faults you might have are really the faults of others.

Fishin' wrote:
Quote:

Your off-base guesses and $2 will get you a secret decoder ring shipped direct to you in the mail.

I think my quesses about your review readings are spot-on and I think we'd like to see a list of about 50 reviewers names and the publications in which they reviewed the book. Or did you use your own secret de-coder ring to reach your un-biased opinion?

Of course you think your guesses are spot on. Your shrink told you about your narcissim problem during one of your little sessions didn't they?

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Bill and Hill got over ten million in advance for their books. Not a bad reward for being the president for eight years. c.i.

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Joe--
The skeleton hunt begins when someone throws their hat in the ring. They all get the initiation.

Clinton came to the game with a lot of baggage!! The GOP probably belived he couldn't possibly get elected because of the biggies--drugs, women and draft-dodging. Well, he surprised the Hell out of them. When shady financial deals came forth, they said "The Hell with this. Let's burn him."

Clinton fans seem to think this was saved just for Clinton, and I say after years of following Presidential elections and watching all the sniffing around Presidents, it is old hat. Clinton seemed to get away with a lot, and this egged on the anti=Clinton investigators. It seemed worse than all the previous investigations, because Clinton and Hill 's questionable backgrounds provided so much more fodder.

If someone had a picture of Bush snorting coke, don't you think we'd have seen it? His background was investigated, as well. No smoking guns.

Who was the President, whose wife was called a whore in print and who's child was called a bastard? Way long ago....

Muskie's mental health issues ran him out of the Presidential race...

Sex peccadillos weren't allowed into the press during the Kennedy era (Good for Jack)

Clean as Carter was, his sister and brother were investigated, and caused Carter real trouble.

And I'm curious about your anger toward the excerpts that have been shared about the book. It is being reported on and quoted very widely, in print and on TV news. And, the bits extracted are all the negative ones about Monica.

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It's a little hard for me to believe there are still people denying that there was a concerted, organized effort to bring Clinton down since he was in Arkansas.

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Yeah, Snood, it's like they were in a different country.

With all due respect Sofia

Quote:

Well, he surprised the Hell out of them. When shady financial deals came forth, they said "The Hell with this. Let's burn him."

I think it was more like ..Well, he surprised the Hell out of them, they said "The Hell with this. Let's burn him. and THEN they made up the whole shady deals, drug-dealing etc Foster murder, FBIfiles, travelgate blah,blah blah.. It was not the same as any other campaign against any other modern President. It was personal on the part of many on the right, and they held to it like good attack dogs do, but please don't shower them with any more excuses for their bad behavior. Some of it was so silly it was sad, do you remember when they spread the word that the Clintons had decorated the White House Christmas tree with nude ornaments?? It was weird. It was, and is, undemocratic conduct. And the "liberal" media were all hoping for that Nixonian-deepthroatonian-super-whammo-scoop that would get them a Pulitzer. The newspapers of the 19th and 18th centuries had neither the vast impact of media today nor the lightening speed to move from one "scandal" to another.
As for Bush, do you see that today? or even before 9/11, was any newspaper screaming for investigations into every oil well that came up dry, well, why not? Did everyone retire or are they sufficiently embarrassed by their own conduct not to pursue that kind of muck-raking anymore.

As for my own pissiness, I get a burr under my saddle when someone proports to know something the rest of us aren't privy to, when he doesn't, and then says he got his information from about 50 sources, when he didn't and ......... you know what ? Shucks.
I'll leave the poor duff alone. Okay? Rolling Eyes

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Okay, Joe.
Don't mind disagreein'.

<real disappointment at missin' the nude tree ornament story>

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Thanks S.

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All this titalating speculation about the lies surrounding Martha's stock transaction and Bill's blow job sure make for riveting diversion from the lies the Bush Administration has been surrounding itself with over the war in Iraq.

The administration must be very relieved that Hillary has come to their rescue and snatched the media's scrutiny from the developing investigations into the manipulations of the American public.

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Two demerits for your wedgie analogy.

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Sofia, you can't really be forgetting about Richard Mellon Scaife and his coterie, who started when Clinton was in Arkansas? Scaife even bought a couple of newspapers in western PA so they could write their filth. And surely you can't be forgetting about all those republicans who pointed their fingers at Clinton and did everything they could to publicly smear? When Henry Hyde, one of the more self-righteous ones, was caught out in his lie about his "youthful indiscretions" (he was in his forties, and had fathered a child), did he recant at all? When the infamous Newt Gingrich served his wife with divorce papers while she was in the hospital and he was having his own fling with an intern, did he blink? And then, of course, he deceived #2 with #3, an even younger intern. It was Bob Livingston of LA who was speaker for half a day, who got caught in his lies about his own pecadillos. All this was called hounding of Clinton. And Kenneth Starr, who tried so hard for so long, with a cost of millions of dollars (he hungered for the Supreme Court) and could only come up with a couple of minor stuff? You really think this was not extraordinary, petty. vicious hounding of a president? This will not go down well in the history books, because the republicans involved in that are already looking foolish, to say the least.

But Snood - self-delusion is a very protective device. It gets interesting, though, when you look over our history of the last years, and see what was accomplished under democratic presidents, and what under republican ones.

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Hey, Hillary needs the bucks to mount her 2008 campaign. If she can get it through book sales, she will do it. The rounds of the TV circuit hawking her book will give her even MORE exposure. On top of that the image of a wronged woman standing proudly, with her head up high, will play well to the women voters.

I think that Hillary Clinton is an ambitious woman who would dance naked in the middle of Times Square, if she thought it would help her acheive her goals!

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mamaj--
Nobody said Clinton was the ONLY one with sexual indiscretions. He was probably just one of the most prolific and careless with them. And, he's not the sole dabbler in dirty money; or the only one to dodge the draft; or the only one with a super-ambitious, harpy wife with highly questionable ethics and past legal dealings; a drug-addict brother ; a loose, gambling mother; an alcoholic, wife-beating father; who reputedly sold China state secrets; sold the Lincoln bedroom for profit; had a blow job while discussing war dead; sold pardons--

but I think he is the only one, who has done ALL of them.

Other guys have been investigated and removed from office for some of this stuff. Clinton got away with all of it. Of course, you can't help what your family does-- but Presidents before Clinton sure had to worry about it. The NOW pilloried all the other sexploits of politicians....but were oddly silent about Clinton's.

Gingrich is no longer in politics. Who was the poor Republican, run out of office for grab assing an intern?

I think probably the fact that Clinton got away with everything he did may have played a role in how desperately some sought to nail something on him.

You really should read Stephanopolous. Quite an eye opener.

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Sofia - Gingrich is still right there, sitting on one of Rumsfeld's committees. It was Livingston, rep of LA, who wasn't run out of office, but was really given very few chances of survival by his fellow repubs. So he went back to LA, and formed a lobbying firm, one of whose major clients is the defense department, and he is the one who gave the not-named iraqi lawyer who walked miles to tell the fake Jessica Lunch story a job with his lobbying firm. Moved the whole family here, by private plane. Affair with an intern, rewarded with a plush lobbying company and a most lucrative client.

Aren't you getting a wee bit more personal than needed with Clinton's early, personal history? And extraneous matters? And hearsay? What does any of that have to do with his reign as one of the more successful US Presidents?

I used to think a large part of the Clinton mess was an easy-to-understand hatred of the guy who made it. Now I see all the envy and denial creeping in. And the disbelief that there are so many others in the world (including here) who still find the Clintons smart and interesting. Can't have that. Doesn't fit with the pre-coceived picture. Out with them. Lay you dollars to donuts they're still here - with a lot of resepct - after the Bushies have to go.

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I don't think anyone would deny the Clintons are smart and interesting.

I'm not referring to Livingston--some poor GOP sot from the eighties----Bob Packwood? For touching butt. The whole sexual discrimination thing changed with Clinton--and it's unfair. But, that is old news.

There may be a bit of jealousy. It's not fair when the rules just don't apply to some people. Evil or Very Mad

I think NOW and sexual discrimination victims (many of Clinton's victims) were the big losers.

But, Hill and Bill did come out smelling like roses. Go figure. Wonder whatever became of Packwood?.....

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Omigod ! Sofia wrote

Quote:

And,1 he's not the sole dabbler in dirty money; 2or the only one to dodge the draft; or 3 the only one with a super-ambitious, harpy wife with highly questionable ethics and past legal dealings; 4 a drug-addict brother ; 5 a loose, gambling mother; 6 an alcoholic, wife-beating father;7 who reputedly sold China state secrets; 8 sold the Lincoln bedroom for profit;9 had a blow job while discussing war dead; 10sold pardons--
but I think he is the only one, who has done ALL of them.

My numbers>J

The smoke clears and she shows her true colors.
I thought she was above this but I see she has bought the whole mud-filled package.
Let's do some truth analysis here. Sofia is supposedly talking about Bill Clinton, but #4, 5, 6 aren't even about him, just sleaze talk about his low beginnings and poor choice of brother. #1 #7,#8 #10 are lies, plain and simple, alleged, investigated and found out to be bald faced lies, but the wingnuts keep repeating them, #3 (Let's repeat it here so you can get the depth of the hate) -the only one with a super-ambitious, harpy wife with highly questionable ethics and past legal dealings Again, not about him but about someone else, but filled with the correct amount of innuendo, invective and smear and, of course, no woman is allowed to be ambitious without being a harpy- really sad and a little sick, as in self-sex hating perchance? Worse, it's just a biased smear, but oh well. So what's left? #2, The draft, I think most of the right objects to anyone of lower station being able to thwart the draft process. It is there to make sure the lower classes fight the wars after all. It is better, IMHO, better than being a certified deserter with the right connections. That leaves us with, of course, #9 the sex which drives the right nuts, so to speak, and this particular smear is
deliciously tied to a sly appeal to veterans. Well done, this is a new low that I've never come across before now, Sofia.
One point for originality.
The rest reveals someone else other than the middle ground Sofia you have portrayed thus far. Thanks at least for that. Now I know.

Joe

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Hill and Bill; Coming Soon in Paperback...

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