anger , I think

bm

I don't know.

Sympathy and a quick hug.

I am part of a mothers community here in austin, and I posted this same question to them.

The best responce I got that made sense was :

Shewolf, I'd really expect some sort of behavioral changes due to moving. Moving was a really enormous stressor in sozlet's life, and I remember thinking when she was two that I was so glad we weren't moving yet because of how hard it would be at that age and developmental stage.

I'd work with her daycare providers on that, tell them what's going on at home, tell them what disciplinary tactics work at home, get everyone on the same page as much as possible.

The communication stuff is worth pursuing, too -- she's not really signing either, right? I could imagine that it would tie in to the whole picture. As in, if she was baseline scared and upset by the move, not being able to communicate the way she wants to could make things much worse for her.

I don't think you need to panic, at all -- just look at the various aspects that could be contributing to this, handle the ones you can handle (such as what you are doing re: following up with communication issues), and wait out what you can't control with as much patience as you can muster (venting's good, there).

I doubt there's a magic bullet, but that there are a number of factors contributing.

Good luck...

We have talked to her teacher, ( whom has changed since then) and the director.

At first , her behavior was pushing.
Actually... not pushing.. SHOVING.
Kids were landing into the walls when she did this.


Now, it is biting.


We try to encorporate the same words, and same reaction that she gets from school , at home..
but truthfully, she doesnt DO this at home so there isnt much of a choice or an option for follow up.

Moving to where we actually LIVE in the apt happens this weekend when we get the heavy stuff in there.
So, in a few days, I bet her behavior will be much diffrent and she will probally be more stressed then she is right now.

But, I will cross that bridge in a few days when we get there.

but she has stopped signing, even though I have not.
There is also a teacher there who uses sign in her class all day that she gives alot of attention to. Jillian just loves her any time she sees her.
But, she wont sign to her either.

Her spoken words are few.. and I am guessing for being 2 and 4 months, she is a little behind?

she has a few key phrases that are always clear-
I need help
I need potty
I need eat
I want it
No.
Stop it
Outside please

and a few other small word combinations
but for the most part, though her speech is deliberate, her words are not clear enough to understand.

That could very well be the stress factor.

That and the class room is non stop.
Kids are always playing, someone is more then likely having a tantrum once an hour, the teacher is always going, thenoise never stops.....

and she has spent her whole life in a quiet , slow paced home with just me, dad, and scattered play groups.
This might just be too much and she needs a spot to be able to turn off in the middle of the day..

She knows that something is up, right? Even if you haven't moved in yet, has she seen the place at all? Have you talked to her about it? At the very least, even if you haven't talked to her about it (and if you haven't, I'd recommend starting! :-)), I bet she's picked up on the general aura of excitement and change. As you said, kids are super perceptive about this stuff.

As in, I'd expect that her behavior would change NOW, not just when you move, though that may or may not be an extra level. If she's anxious about the move, actually doing it and getting settled in may take things down a notch, especially without M-I-L stressy stuff.

I know that sozlet's doctor was concerned that she wasn't speaking that much when she was 2 or so -- she was speaking a bit more than that I think. She was signing up a storm, though -- I remember it was 250 words at 18 months, and how annoyed I was at the doc for not "counting" that. ("Yes, but is she SPEAKING?") I don't think you have to be concerned-concerned -- the range of "normal" is quite broad -- but coupled with these other problems, I think it's probably a good idea to follow up, see what happens. Could help a lot.

She's right at the peak age for biting, shewolf. I know, because my son went through the same thing then. He never did it at home, either. He was in a church's Mothers' Day Out program that had inexperienced workers, and they didn't know how to handle it, so they asked us to leave. Fortunately, I then found a good day care that had a very experienced teacher for his age group, and they reassured me it happens all the time and they knew what to do. They broke him of this habit very quickly. They "shadowed" him for a few days, never leaving his side. Funny how he wouldn't get out of line when an adult was staring at him!

We explained until we were blue in the face about how it's not okay to bite, but two-year-olds are not really capable of empathy. Eventually, he bit a larger boy who turned around and bit him back. That did the trick. With that kid anyway. Then I told my son that I was going to tell all the other children in the class that it was okay to bite him if he bit first. (I wouldn't have, but it was a good bluff. It worked!)

Anyway, talk to the day care. They have probably handled this many times before.

The more I think about it, the more I think it is over stimulation.

And I am thinking that this new teacher isnt giving her space when she needs it , and is possibly seeing her "being alone" as being shy.
Instead of leaving her be, I think she might be trying to push her into activities , wich makes her more frustrated

oooo....yes, overstimulation.

my first day of kindergarden I sat most of the morning in a out of the way corner facing the wall and fiddling with the corner of a piece of paper on the wall.

when the teacher asked me if I wanted to come out and play, I wouldn't even look at her. Just shook my head no...

By the next day of course, I was playing with other kids, but always preferred small groups to big groups.

Are there other kids in the class who might prefer more quiet activities?
Maybe the teacher can make a small sub group where the quieter kids could play?

It's very hard going from being just with mom to being with a bunch of kids.

Shewolf--



Little Miss Pearly Jaws is not biting people because her teacher doesn't understand her.

She isn't biting people because you don't understand her.

For some reason at the end of August, 2006, Bean feels that biting people will make her feel better. She doesn't care if the kids she bites get hurt. She is not a monster--she's a little girl experimenting with trying to improve her world Unfortunately, she doesn't have the vocabulary to express her feelings--but she's not the only toddler to be verbally handicapped.

You've said that this day care/preschool center is a study center for the University? That the teachers are exceptional in their field and the students are all closely supervised?

Bean is not going to be expelled from preschool. She is not going to grow up to be a homicidal maniac. You are not going to have to wear a Bad Mommie sign whenever you leave the house.

This too shall pass. Hold your dominion.



]

I know it doesnt make me a bad mom.
There is nothing that I have done wrong.
I just worry, and I feel horrible , that my daughter is THAT unhappy and I cant fix it.
I cant make her whole. I dont know what is causing it.

So, I had the talk today.

Yeah, she could be removed from this school

She isnt just biting every now and then.
She is bitting, 6, 7 , 10 times a day.

And from what her teacher says, " There is no provocation"
THIS i dont buy.

But when you are one person to 12 kids, you might not see everything.
And I absolutly understand that.

Apparently, according to the director, there are parents who are saying they will take thier child out of this day care if something isnt done.
I dont know how TRUE that is, but I doubt that is just a parental scare tactic.

I dont know what to do.

I think, Jillian is just way to over stimulated. Period.

i think she is having a real hard time adjusting to such a busy day when her home life is so low key.

So. I told them that they need to start giving her " time out".
As a punishment..... yes..
but also as a daily "activity".
She needs time to turn off. She needs a break. She needs down time.
And sometimes she needs it alot.

I dont know what else to do. I am at a loss and if she gets yanked from this day care, we are in serious trouble.
Apparently, 605 that we will start paying next month, is a GREAT price for austin day care.


To me, that is a horrible cost. We absolutly could not afford more.

but , I will cross that bridge, and grow THOSE grey hairs when we get there.

This is out of my league by far. Other posters are saying it's a normal phase. But I can see all the reactions. And we don't need here being treated as odd.

I have a slight hunch that she is treated as older because, isn't she taller than average?




Signed,
one who was told by her parents she didn't talk until four, her first sentence being "new car dad".

I'd heard this over the years but not knowing it was odd, didn't ask further, and it's way too late now. Clearly I've made up for it on a2k.





Oh, and that fits, since cars weren't produced during WWII, and I was born in late '41, and cars probably rolled off the assembly line in late '45.

Aw, sorry you're going through this, shewolf, it'll work out one way or the other.

When I was writing that I'd expect moving to impact her behavior, I had deja vu but couldn't remember at the time what it was about -- just realized that it was the mere fact of starting daycare, especially for the amount of time that she's doing it.

That's another huge adjustment.

How long has the biting been going on?

I guess I'm surprised there isn't a support system in place, as a backup conjunct thing. This frantic behavior is a normal expression for children.

The teacher:toddler ratio might not be enough and Jillian might
get frustrated for not getting enough attention. It seems almost all
daycare centers are faced with toddler biting, and they usually
handle it by "shadowing" the biting children. Ask your daycare center
to "shadow" Jillian for a few days to change her behavior.

http://parenting.ivillage.com/tp/tpbehavior/0,,3z5w,00.html

Good find, CJ.

This has been going on for about 5 weeks now.

At first, she was shoving kids over.
Then it went to biting.

I know kids bite.. but she is - according to them- just picking a child and biting them really hard.

it isnt a 'nip' if there is such a thing

these leave welts. And make the day care teacher have to explain WHY these kids are getting bit.

yeah, she is REALLY tall. She looks like a 3+ year old. And she jsut turned 2 in march.

They are shadowing her now, but I caught this "shadower" pulling something out of jillians hand with no explination, then when jillian squealed her discomfort and pushed her face into the toy sink to bite the sink, the shadower had the nerve to tell jillian not to scream because it hurt her ears.


I told the director what i saw.
and her first words were
" I can see it from the care givers perspective. They are tired and it is the end of the day"
Huh?

were we NOT just talking about how we need to be consistant with Jillian?

then she said " that is not acceptable on any level though with any child"

well.. fkn duh lady.


Any child would be angry if you just yanked something out of thier hands that they are playing with , and give no explination-warning- nothing.
Then to SCOLD them for feeling angry?

****.
it makes me wonder what other : shadowers she is getting ya know?

Warning - this is a long, angry, weepy, scared, frustrated, possibly
judgemental, bitchy, tired, terrified post.

So yeah.
It is official.

UT has kicked Jillian out.
And you want to know the core reason? She throws tantrums " too
often".

Uh.. earth to UT, she is 2. Thats right... 2.
You want her to write an essay about her feelings instead?

Being two is hard people. At 2 everything you feel is intense and
immediate. There is no soft spot for a kid to land when they are
angry at two years old.

The really fucked up part is that I got this call AT work.. at 10 AM
saying I needed to come GET jillian , and that my check will be
handed back to me.

HUH?

what?

what did you say?



I spent the rest of the morning in tears. I thought, at first that it
was yet another " come get jillian and take her home" call.. No.
This was the call I was dreading.

They caught me with my pants down, and gave me no notice.

The really bad part is that the lady who called me said quite
specifically that she had been wrestling with this solution for a
while.



Uh hello?!


Hows about telling ME that?




I got NO NOTICE[/b], and in the span of 2 minutes, I learn that I have no day care. NONE.


And then.. this is the kicker... she said that they would wave the 30
day notice.

What the ****?
I have to give YOU notice for YOU to tell me you dont want my daughter in your school?


It isnt so much that they are not going to give anymore assistance,
it is that they gave NO notice.

I have peeked in many times in her classroom and I always see Jillian
being entertained in a corner.

Or, I hear her being yelled at


She has come home with finger bruises on her arms every day for the
last 2 weeks.

They dont allow her into regular activities.. and then they wonder
why she is frustrated?


She is BITING HER SELF because she is so uncomfortable.. and yet...
THEY tell ME that I have to do something about this.

What gives?

They ( utcdc) pumped themselves up as being able to handle any
obsticle a child could have in their lives because they were staffed
with only child development majors, minors, and child psychologists..

yet they cant handle a child with tantrums?

They offerd little solutions to the problem other then yelling NO
BITING, NO SCREAMING,

I have seen some of the video, and I can tell from my peeping times
that she is being yelled at in the video, yet, it doesnt capture
sound. Just images.

I have had a sick feeling in my stomach for a while.

ANd I remember, the DAY we went in to visit UT, I thought.. so , what
do the kids do for fun ?


They are not allowd to dump toys on the ground.

They are not allowed to yell

They are not allowed to horseplay, run, or tumble in the classroom.

Yet again, I am coming to the wierd statement.. - but , they are TWO -

They are not allowed to eat with thier fingers. Ever.


It feels very 50-ish in their rules and regulations.
And I am truly dissappointed.
I have been dissappointed for a long time with them. This just takes
the cake.

I mean, how can anyone as a day care provider, try to give a parent
one hour to get thier child because they will no longer accept them???

Tell me thats not bullshit.


So, I snuck a peak at another, highly reccomended day care today.

Kiddos were painted with stripes, and animals, and 1/2 dressed
because it was hot outside, and the walls are drawn all over with
kiddo art. There are tons of adults outside actually PLAYING with
the kids. Where as, at UT, the teachers are standing off to the sides
in their business like suits and clean pants not playing.. just
watching.

Ok, this place will get me on thier front porch Monday.

Well, the new place sounds a zillion times better! Is it way more expensive, though? Don't I remember reading that you were extra worried about her getting kicked out of the fancy-pants-uptight daycare because it was the only affordable one?