For Neologist, and anyone else affiliated with watchtower.

"First things first Talkactive. Not trying to be sarcastic or rude, but have you not found the quote button yet? It is on the top right side of this post. If you click it, it will quote the whole post you just read. Just a suggestion though..."

Hephzibah! Even with your kind guidence, it doesn't functioning.

"Do you really think JW are the only one's who have given a "time the end will come"? LOL if you do, you are being quite naive my friend... with a twist of arrogance in there as well. Arrogance becomes no one that I've ever met. Myself included"

I don't claim to be Gods channel and have the truth, furthermore force people to belive what I belive by putting sanctions behind, like the Watchtower Society, if you don't belive in 1914 etc. I think you are quite unfamilary with the Watchtowers doctrines, teachings and procedures and secret trails like the one with Jesus!

I think you are trying to avoid the facts, that the Watchtower Societys doctrines leads to death casualties and totally have missed the thread!

I have even stated that it is not my goal to force anybody to be in or leave the Society, or judge anybody, but to forward information that people can be aware of and informed of what really goes on and hopefully be able to save as minst one life, hopefully more, from being sacrified at the Watchtowers alters, by information related to the fact and the Bible!

I will hereby kindly take the liberty to guide your attention to what comes forth in Ephesians 5:6-15!

5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Do you also mean that the first Christians was covered by the versus you refer to, when they were disclosing the scribes and pharisees doctrines, but wasn't perfect as Jesus? (Not to compare them with me or others, just as an example)

Our savior!

BTW, you can create your own quote function in 2 ways

Simple quote (spaces added for clarity):
[ quote] text [ /quote]
Specific quote:
[ quote="Talkactive"] text [ /quote]

Neo. It seems that you obviously show and don't have respect for others feelings and the life itself, since you don't take it seriously, but maybe if it has been your own daughter or son who have died in leak of a vaccination or by the Societys now allowed blood components, I think the situation would have been totally different!

I have a big portion of humor, but when it comes to show respect for life and other peoples beloved ones, their sons and daughters, who had been killed, especially because of the Societys flickering doctrines, I think we have to show them and the life our respect. You have told us about your background, that's maybe why?

But anyway thanks for the information. I think its because of the security settings in the browser, because script isn't allowed.

Neo. I look forward to your reply to Tele, with a yes or no, and maybe you will have the kindnesss to inform hephzibah about all the things you know for sure about The Society and maybe you can remember the procedures?

If you can remember, even that it is many ears ago, pls. think about all those brothers and sisters that have been disfellowshipped and cut of from their family, wife children and bellowed ones and all social activity because they wasn't agree with the Societys "new light" after they joined the "truth" and it was a matter of their Bible based conscience, rather than a clear violation of Jehovahs commandments! Murder, adultery, stealing and lyings etc. etc.

PS. It is only The Gowerning Body who are allowed to lie and doubletalk, they call it theocratical warfare!

I think it is time to go to bed the local time here is 4:27 AM.

Bon nuit to all of you!

Neo. If you still is alive I would like to refresh your memory about 1975!

1975 - Did the Watchtower learn from the 1925 fiasco?


Frederick William Franz was just as eager as his teacher, Rutherford. And he didn't learn a thing from Rutherford's and Russll's many mistakes

Anyway, were the lessons of 1925 learnt by the leader(s) of the Society, the publishers of all these books and magazines?

VINDICATION, vol 1 (1931), p 338-339 :

'There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918 and 1925....they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future and predicting what would come to pass on a certain date....'

[ had they? ]

Skipping past predictions for 1941 (the war would develop into Armageddon...... or ' the remaining months before Armageddon' - (see ' Consolation' 29/10/41) and moving on to the year 1975 , and the WBTS prophecies and predictions about that time. What do we find? The end of Rutherford's presidency had seen the moving of the interpretation of the beginning of the 'last days' from 1799 up to 1914 .

In 1943 the book 'The Truth Shall Make You Free' was published. This book moved the date for the second advent, or coming / presence, of Christ from 1874 up to 1914. Originally 1914 had been the date for the END of the wicked system and all the churches etc. Also, effectively, the end of 6000 years of mankind's existence was moved up from 1874 to the mid 1970s (1975) as later highlighted in the book 'Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God' published in 1966. Bold claims then started to be made, although not quite so dogmatic, if in print.

AWAKE 8/10/1966, p 19:

'In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975.'

WATCHTOWER 15/10/1966, p 629:

'Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. 'The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed,' said a conventioneer.'

LIFE EVERLASTING - IN FREEDOM OF THE SONS OF GOD, 1966, p 29 - 30:

How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make this coming seventh period of 1000 years a Sabbath period of rest and release..... It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, for mankind has ahead of it what the last book of the Bible speaks of as the reign of Jesus Christ over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ...

'According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall on 1975 C.E..' 'It would not be by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah God if the reign of Jesus Christ, the 'Lord of the Sabbath,' was to run parallel with the seventh millennium of man's existence.'

Surely, it is a foolish man who decides what is 'fitting' or 'appropriate'
for God, especially in view of Jesus' cautions.

WATCHTOWER, 1/5/1967, p 262:

'Just think, 1975 marks the end of 6,000 years of human experience.....Will it be the time when God executes the wicked?....It very well could be, but we will have to wait to see.'

WATCHTOWER 1/5/68

The immediate future is certain to be filled with climatic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to
these last days will undergo fulfillment resulting in the liberation of surviving mankind into Christ's glorious 1000 year reign!

WATCHTOWER, 15/8/1968, P 494: Article heading - 'WHY ARE YOU LOOKING FORWARD TO 1975?'

'ADAM CREATED AT CLOSE OF 'SIXTH DAY' Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then ? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ....It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.'


(P 499)

KINGDOM MINISTRY, 03/1968, P 4:

'...there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed....The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out...'

WATCHTOWER 1/5/68 Page 271

Eight years from the Autumn of 1967 would bring us to the Autumn of 1975, fully 6,000 years into God's seventh day, his rest day.


[compare with WT 1/10/75 below]

KINGDOM MINISTRY, 06/1969, p 3:

'In view of the short time left, a decision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous.....Many young brother and sisters were offered scholarships or employment that promised fine pay. However, they turned them down and put spiritual interests first.'


[This advice remains current]

KINGDOM MINISTRY, 05/1974, p 3:

'Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that no reason to increase our activity?....Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system of things in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end.'

WATCHTOWER, 1/7/1974, p 397:

'It also tells us that this millennium must be preceded immediately by the most destructive war in all human history. We can now see the political rulers...being gathered...for that War of all wars....'

Even stronger statements were made about 1975 at various conventions. Witnesses around at that time will remember, even though the episode is only given a passing reference these days, and many seem to have developed 'selective amnesia'. The Society found all kinds of external secular 'support' for 1975 and the view was advanced that the world couldn't possibly continue for much longer. See for instance 'The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life' (1968 edition) On page
88 it quotes a book called 'Famine 1975' which was also quoted extensively in much other Society literature. Interestingly, the references to this book were quietly dropped from later editions of the 'Truth book'. A 'six month maximum' Bible study program was started after the 'Truth book' was published, because of the 'nearness of the end'

Autumn 1975 arrives - WATCHTOWER 1/10/75 Page 579 [compare with WT 1/5/68 above]

Does this mean, then, that mankind has now reached 6,000 years into the 7,000 year period that God blessed and made sacred as his rest day? ... No, It does not mean that.


[it did in 1968]

Too late - Advise had been heeded - mortgages were closed, insurance policies cashed, medical insurance lapsed, treatment put off, and educational opportunities turned down.
1975 is now 20 years ago. The WBTS (claiming to be a prophet) had stated that 'it may involve only a difference of weeks or months, NOT YEARS'. Whilst claiming to be GOD's Prophet they had stated that after the 6,000 years and before the Millennium, the earth will experience Armageddon. Well the 6,000 years ended and The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania had yet another failed prophecy on it's hands.



So what did they say in 1976:

Watchtower 15/7/76 Pages 440 - 441. A humble apology from the leaders ? Not a bit.

It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have put off or neglected things that they would otherwise have cared for.. . But they have missed the point of the Bible's warning.....But it is not advisable for us to set our sights on a certain date, neglecting everyday things we would ordinarily care for as Christians, such things that we and
our family really need... If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of though, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.

So there we have it! It was the individual followers fault again - just
like in 1925!


The society's latest 1993] 'History' book - Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, mentioned earlier, despite designating pages and pages to building and printing expansions, virtually ignores the 1975 saga. At the end of the book there is a chronological section called 'Notable Dates'. The predictions for 1925 and 1975 don't even get a mention!

Now let's remind ourselves of the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:20-22.

'However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: 'How shall we know the word that Jehovah has spoken ?' When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it...'


So what has The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society ITSELF said about False Prophets in the past
PROPHECY (1929), p 22 :

'If these prophesies have not been fulfilled, and if all possibility of fulfillment is past, then these prophets are proven false.'

VINDICATION, vol 1 (1931), p 146 :

'God's faithful people on earth emphasized the importance of the dates 1914 and 1918 and 1925. They had much to say about these dates and what would come to pass, but all they predicted did not come to pass.'

PARADISE RESTORED TO MANKIND -- BY THEOCRACY (1972), p 353 - 354 :

'Jehovah... will put all false prophets to shame either by not fulfilling the false prediction of such self-assuming prophets or by having His own prophesies fulfilled in a way opposite to that predicted by false prophets.'

AWAKE! 10/08/1968, p 23 :

'True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date....The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying....
Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding them and using them.'

WATCHTOWER 06/15/1974, p 381 :

'Similarly, the 'false prophet' is not a person, but is a system or an organization.'

WATCHTOWER 01/15/1959, p 40, 41:

'Whom has God actually used as his prophet ? By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah's witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them.'

Also, during the late 1970s and throughout 1980, each issue of the
Watchtower cover featured this statement :

'A WATCHTOWER enables a person to look far into the distance and announce to others what is seen. Likewise, this magazine, published by Jehovah's Witnesses, aids the reader to see what the future holds'.

Now, as we know, by definition one who tells what the future holds is, of
course, a prophet.

WATCHTOWER forward 1/4/1972: 'The Watchtower is it God's Prophet?'

'So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come ? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is the prophet ? ... This 'prophet' was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at the time as International Bible Students. Today they are know as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses'.

1939 YEARBOOK OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, P 85:

'It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communicating to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose.'

AWAKE 8/6/1986 page. 9:

'You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact they are known throughout the world as Jehovah's Witnesses.'

So the Watchtower society has constantly claimed ' prophet' status in their relatively short history, yet using the Biblical test for False Prophets and even using the Watchtower's own material about False Prophets, it is clear that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society leaders have made prophecies which have failed. They have actually called themselves 'God's Prophet', yet their prophesies have turned out to be FALSE. Why does the 1995 Awake fail to mention any of this. Why does it not conclude that since the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has had so many failed prophecies, they can't be prophesying by GOD's direction, nor through GOD's
Holy Spirit, nor by GOD's Angels. Why do they instead attempt to shift the blame onto the eagerness of the followers? Is it so that they can retain their mystical 'God's Prophet' status for future predictions or changes? It must also be remembered that the WBTS is HIGHLY CRITICAL of any and all other religion, and teaches that ALL other religion is false and is from Satan.




So what about the past Presidents of the society? They held ultimate responsibility for what was published and taught.
NEW YORK KING'S COUNTY CLERKS'S COURT RECORD, 1940, vol. II, p 795:

Fred W. Franz on the witness stand:

Q. Who subsequently became the Editor of the magazine, the main editor

of the 'Watch Tower' magazine ?

A. In 1931, October 15th, as I recall, the 'Watch Tower' discontinued

publishing the names of any editorial committee on the second page.

COURT: He asked you who became the editor.

WITNESS: And it said --

COURT: Who became the editor ?

Q. Who became the editor when this was discontinued ?

A. Jehovah God.'

Olin R. Moyle, v F.W.Franz, et al. Libel suit testimony, May 10th to May
27th, 1943, New York Supreme Court, Appellate Division:

Fred W. Franz on the witness stand, sections 2596 & 2597 -

Q. At any rate, Jehovah God is now the editor of the paper, is that

right ?

A He is today the editor of the paper.

Q. How long has he been editor of the paper ?

A. Since its inception he has been guiding it.

Q. Even before 1931 ?

A. Yes, sir.'

Nathan Homer Knorr (then President) on the witness stand, at the same Olin
Myle trial, sections 4420 & 4421 :

Q. But you don't make any mention in the fore part of your Watch

Tower that 'We are not infallible and subject to correction and

may make mistakes' ?

A. We have never claimed infallibility.

Q. But you don't make any such statement, that you are subject to

correction, in your Watch Tower papers do you ?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. In fact, it is set forth directly as God's Word, isn't it ?

A. Yes, as His Word.

Q. Without any qualification whatsoever ?

A. That is right.'.

Fred W. Franz later became the President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract
Society. So, according to two Presidents, we see the claim that Jehovah
God is the editor of the Watch Tower.



IN CONCLUSION
The only conclusion can be that the leaders of the Watchtower Society are seeking to deceive it's followers.

The Watchtower of July 1st, 1973, page 402, claims,

'Consider too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone in all the earth is directed by God's holy spirit or active force.'


But obviously GOD does not prompt these false prophecies! So exactly how, or when, does he do this 'directing' of His only organization? Is the Holy Spirit being turned on and off? Questions for the leaders!


The Bible give us a simple test for prophets, which we considered at the beginning of this study, namely that their predictions will fail. The definition of prophecy is quite clear. It is foretelling something that will happen in the future. False prophecy, according to God's word, is when that which is foretold, fails to come to pass, rendering that false prophet liable to death.
It is a very serious matter, especially if such 'prophecy' is claimed to be based on God's Word - the Bible.

Words such as 'prophecy, prediction, eagerness, caution and erroneous view' can be played around with as much as the leaders like. But it does not alter Gods Word. The 1995 Awake rightly says that 'God's promises will not fail - it is often men's promises and prophecies that fail'. But the Awake fails to extend the argument through to it's logical and undeniable conclusion - that the men calling themselves the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, who, according to their own heady claim, are the sole ones 'entrusted with feeding Gods people with food in due season, ' fully meet the criteria (as set forth in the Bible) for false prophets. What would be the Watchtower's view if the 1925 or 1975 prophecies has been made by another
religion? I am sure that they would be 'ridiculing' and 'raking it all over' on a regular basis (..more evidence proving they are from Babylon the Great etc...) and absolutely no reluctance
to make the obvious connection to Deut 18:20-22 etc.

Any individual, or organization that tells people not to listen to, or read, anything critical of him or the organization, must be viewed with great suspicion. There can be no justification
whatsoever for such a 'rule'. Why is information being restricted in this way? The only possible reason is that something needs covering up or
cannot be satisfactorily explained. Ridicule the questioner by all means, if that's what you want
to do, - but not before you've dealt with (and proved wrong) his allegations.

Real TRUTH does not change and can take any amount of probing - that is what makes it the truth!

On the other hand, false allegations, lies or even maybe just opinions] can be proved to be
just that. Acceptance or rejection can then be based on the evidence, and persons can make up their own mind, surely that is why God has given them the power of reason. (1 Thes 5:21)


Ezekiel, chapter 13, verses 8 & 9. The New Jerusalem Bible:

'Very well, the Lord Yahweh says this: Because of your futile words and false predictions, I am now against you - declares Lord Yahweh. My hand will be against the prophets who have futile visions and give false predictions; '

The evidence is plain and in abundance for anyone who wants to look. So why and how is it all accepted? The blame rests not with the individual Witness. He or she is being misled. The true state of affairs is hidden from him.
The member witnesses' supply of information is strictly (and unreasonably) controlled. The means to make any critical analysis is effectively denied him or her. But 'how it's done' is a subject on it's own. The effect is:

He (or she) must simply follow the organization.
The organization tells him to. If he wants to please God and live forever.
Alternatively he will die.
The organization tells him that God has a single organization and this is it.
The organization tells him how God want's him to act, think, and what to do
The organization tells him that this is the only way he can be happy
The organization tells him that they alone are prophetic, chosen, able to
understand the Bible
The organization tells him about their glorious history and the proof of God's blessing.
The organization picks the selective bits of 'proof' it wants to give him in support of these claims.
The organization tells him not to make friends outside the organization
The organization tells him not to read or consider anything contrary to the organizations views and interpretations
The organization tells him that would be from Satan. And Satan is out to get him
The organization can change those views though. And back again if they want to.
The organization tells him that if he holds contrary views he must keep quiet, leave or be disfellowshipped
The organization then tells everyone else, including his family, not to even talk to him - to hate him
The thought of that scares him. Friends - his entire social circle - are all conditional
The organization controls him
The organization has a lot to answer for. And in time it will have to.
WBTS said,[ of others] If after making an honest investigation, you are less than pleased with what you see, do more than just complain. A journalist, commenting on Karl Barth's statement that a church IS it's members, logically concluded:

"Church members are responsible for what the church says and does."
So ask yourself: Am I willing to share responsibility for everything my church says and does? You may sincerely believe that your church is no part of false religion that God says he will soon destroy. But your life depends on being 100 percent sure. Are you?

(Awake September 8th, 1987)

But, in response to any sincere questioning of their prophecies etc, the WBTS will just resort to attacking the source of the questioning - rather than simply using the Bible and disproving the
allegations. Shoot the messenger!] Any organization (or individual) that tells followers not to listen to, or read, anything critical of that organization, must be viewed with great suspicion. Why? There can be no justification whatsoever for such rules. Real TRUTH can take any amount of probing - that is what makes it the truth! False allegations, lies or even
opinions, can be proved to be just that. Persons can then make up their own mind. As God intended!



Finally, a few last quotes
When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning?


(The Watchtower, Jan 15th, 1974)

William Brown, an English M.P. 1887 - 1960 had some interesting things to say about 'organizations' of any sorts.

Whether the organization be political, religious or social is immaterial to my present argument. The point is that, the idea having embodied itself in organization, the organization then proceeds gradually to slay the idea which gave it birth... In the case of a religious organization, it's message will crystallize into a creed.
Before long, the principal concern of the church will be to sustain itself as an organization. To this end, any departure from the creed must be controverted and, if necessary suppressed as heresy. In a few score or few hundred years what was conceived as a vehicle of a new and higher truth has become a prison for the souls of men.
...

The organization develops a self interest which has no connection with, and becomes inimical to the idea with which it began. Now the thing which permits this process of diversion to take place, so that the organization comes to stand for the opposite of the idea which originally inspired it, is the tendency of men and women to become Prisoners of the Organization, instead of being Servants of the Spirit... the organization becomes ..a channel through which particular
interests must be served.




And Ironically
Beware of "organization" It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word to-day..

(Charles Taze Russell - Watchtower 1895 p 216 )

Unfortunately Russell was to change. And the rest, as they say, is history.

Test everything. Hold on to the good. 1 Thess 5:21 (New International Version)

What can I say against your shotgun of objections? If I were to answer each one, and I believe I could, you would no doubt reload with yet another shell.
So I can respond to the single pellet of 1975 and assure you that my comments as quoted above accurately represented the tenor of expectation, such as it was.

That being said, it is time for you and Tele to approach the podium and take the chalk. Instruct us, if you please, on the ways of the true religion. What is its correct doctrine? Where may its adherents be found? And, most importantly, what is its claim to infallibility?

And, while I would be honored for you to post your message of salvation in this very thread, perhaps in the interest of the lives of so many you would be willing to begin a new topic. Post a link to it here, of course.

Teleologist wrote:





Tele. Since you do not get any answer from Neo, I am also convienced about your conclusion, which we all are aware of is based at The Watchtowers legistical behaviour, 1 Corintians 1:24! by disfelloshipping and shunning members, rather than passion and love, which the Bible command us to do in Romas 13:8!

Jesus the head of our belifs, gave us the best and finest examples to follow and because of the Scribes and the Pharisees acts, was the background for what comes forth in the whole chapter of Matthew 23, especally versus 23!

Newertheless!

Neo, I like to whish you all the best with you knee operation and hope you will be able to make a personal and free choise, together with your Doctors and based at proper information!

Neo. haven't you been studying and attend the meetings in the Kingdom Hall before you get baptized and become a member?

Neo wrote:


Neo. Try this link and listen to the speech of representatives for The Watchtower Society:

http://www.freeminds.org/wav/wav.htm

Neo, as a JW you are required to accept and promote all Watchtower teachings. So what would you do if you determined that some Watchtower teaching regarding blood was in error? Would you continue to promote it as truth?

For example. The Watchtower policy for the past 6 years has been that taking transfusions of hemoglobin that are derived from the donated blood supply are a matter of conscience whereas injections of platelets are forbidden. Blood is 80% water. Hemoglobin accounts for 75% of the non-water part of blood. Platelets only account for about 5% of the non-water part of blood. Now, let's say you can't find any Biblical or medical basis for this Watchtower teaching. What are you going to do? Ignore it? Well, it's not that simple. You see, as a JW you are obligated to convert others to Watchtower doctrine.

So here you are conducting a Bible study and the blood issue comes up. Are you going to teach them that it is a matter of conscience whether they take a transfusion of hemoglobin but it is a violation of God's law if they take an injection of platelets? Are you going to teach them something that is not based on Scripture and could cost them their life? What if they or one of their children were to die because they followed what you taught them and a year later the Watchtower Society changes its mind and approves platelet therapy? Do you suppose you are going to avoid bloodguilt before God by claiming you were just following the orders of the Watchtower? Ever hear these words:
"We must obey God as ruler rather than men" Acts 5:29. I don't see where it says "except if those men are the leaders of the Watchtower Society".

The irony here is killin' me . . . in another thread today, i pointed out that people who attack Neo as a JW (which happens quite consistently) do so on the assumption that he is a lock-step adherent of a creed which they claim they can identify to his shame. Making such an assumption shows your ignorance of Neo, as well as being a clue to the close-minded adherence you have for the theology which you personally profess. If one thing were clear to someone with an open mind reading this thread, it is that Neo has never unconditionally endorsed an organizational creed with regard to blood transfusions, and has consistently pointed out that points of view vary among JWs, while he himself has his own point of view informed my his scriptural reading, and not a blind-faith adherence to a publicly-stated creed.

By the way, you're largely wasting your time posting right now--Neo said in another thread that he'll be out all day.

What amazes and disgusts me is the fervor which with creeps are willing to attempt to bludgeon someone with whom they disagree based upon what they think that person believes, as opposed to listening to learn what that person actually believes.

Setanta write:


Be happy that you are still alive......opposite all those Brothers, Sisters and their children that have died in leak of available medical treatment, due to the Watchtower blood doctrine.

The problem is that you don't understand that mostly of the JW's are victims and if somebody have another apprehension than Watchtower or find out what's really is going on inside and talks to one or more in the Congregation about it and it comes to the Elders knowledge, one way or the other, due to the general education program, to be informers, even anonymously, you are in trouble and risk to be Disfellowshipped in secret trails, but Neo have obviously not informed you about the procedures?

That's the real background and reason for Neo don't dare to answer Tele and instead work around the hot spot as a cat on a hot tinny roof, like so many others, catched in a system, where the Organisation comes before the humans and the life it selves, like in the former East Block Countries.

The Watchtower, Jan 15th, 1974)

William Brown, an English M.P. 1887 - 1960 had some interesting things to say about 'organizations' of any sorts.

Whether the organization be political, religious or social is immaterial to my present argument. The point is that, the idea having embodied itself in organization, the organization then proceeds gradually to slay the idea which gave it birth... In the case of a religious organization, it's message will crystallize into a creed.
Before long, the principal concern of the church will be to sustain itself as an organization. To this end, any departure from the creed must be controverted and, if necessary suppressed as heresy. In a few score or few hundred years what was conceived as a vehicle of a new and higher truth has become a prison for the souls of men.
...

The organization develops a self interest which has no connection with, and becomes inimical to the idea with which it began. Now the thing which permits this process of diversion to take place, so that the organization comes to stand for the opposite of the idea which originally inspired it, is the tendency of men and women to become Prisoners of the Organization, instead of being Servants of the Spirit... the organization becomes ..a channel through which particular
interests must be served.


And Ironically
Beware of "organization" It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word to-day..

(Charles Taze Russell - Watchtower 1895 p 216 )

Unfortunately Russell was to change. And the rest, as they say, is history.

Beside repeating your witless copy and paste jobs, you once again demonstrate your appalling lack of an ability to coherently express yourself in the English language.

Actually, i suppose we should all be grateful that you rely upon copy and paste from other sources. It is excruciating enough to read the butchery you do to English when you do actually bother to express yourself as opposed to ripping off someone else's screed.

What is most striking about your "contribution," though, is your perfervid desire to smear someone whom you do not know, simply on the basis of your rabid hatred of those with whom you disagree. If you're so hot to excoriate those whom you allege are responsible for the deaths of people from a lack of competent medical care, why aren't you out crusading against the Christian Scientists, who eschew a lot more than simply blood transfusion?

Setanta. It seems that we are back to zero, since it seems more to be a question for you how I spell than the content!

I will appreciate very much if you will tell me, in my mother's tongue, what you do or don't understand, and then I maybe have the possibility to find the exact word you are unable to understand.

If you are borrowed by the information I provide, I don't think anybody force you to remain and make any comments!

Regarding the other topic you brought up here, you are quite right and since you brought it up, I can recommend and hope that you are free to concentrate and use your energy here.

Frankly, if that is an example of your "mother's tongue," she must have been a tongue-tied lady, indeed. Just what the hell is "If you are borrowed by the information" supposed to mean? Believe me when i say, as a native speaker of this language for more than half a century, you don't express yourself coherently in the English language.

But if you would take your act on the road, you'd have one hell of a comedy career.

Setanta. I really like to follow you what you meant and why you brought up what the Scientists have been and are responsible for, e.g. in form of Weapon systems, in this forum.

Do I understand you right by giving you this example:

Shall we be ignorant or non sensitive, when one of our neighbours are going to die, with that in mind or as an excuse, that more than 43000 Americans already has been killed in the traffic and more in wars, so far and more has to come, instead of and at all time, try to give our best assistance, where we have possibilities and can afford to help, trying to avoid death casualties?

Was that the reason for taking up the guilt of the Christian Scientists, because you are dooing absolutely nothing yourself to stop people from dying, because of doctrines?

What form of legal steps have you taken to stop the Christian Scientists, now you mentioned them, they maybe and even belong to the Church you are a member of?

Isn't it yours/our responsibility to take actions to avoid that more destructive ideas and doctrines gets realized, being responsible for people get killed?

I like to forward a question to you, have you done Military service in the armed forces? If positive, why did you support the Military which is responsible for millions of people's death and what have you done in the past and what are you doing right now to stop e.g. the war in Iraq?

I do not hope you sleep at the sofa!

I and many other are trying to stop the Watchtowers blood doctrine, it is at least something, a beginning, where we try to get people to think, that this is evil and contrary to Jehovahs commandments, Christian passion and love!

Oh Jeeze, yer killin' me . . . stop, really, stop it right now . . .


Yes, in fact, i am a veteran of the United States Army. I might come back later to attempt to decipher your almost incomprehensible drivel, and make a reply . . .


. . . but don't bet on it.

Setanta. Be happy, you are a lucky Guy, getting an orchestra stall free of charge as long as you are visiting this forum by your free will, in accordance to your own recommendations!

PS. I am sure there are others that understand what I meant, not to "fatigue" you!

No fatigue here, Bubba, i appreciate the free entertainment . . .

Shaddup, Setanta.