For Neologist, and anyone else affiliated with watchtower.

Agreed.

I am researching the background of the Watchtower Society's membership in the UN NGO, which I knew nothing about. That it was an error is evident from their decision to withdraw. But The Society has never claimed immunity from error. On a scale of 0 to 10, with the Catholic - Nazi Concordat of 1933, having Franz Von Papen and Cardinal Pacelli as signatories being a 9, I rate the Society's indiscretion a 1.

Nevertheless, some further explanation would be appropriate.

"And, what is there about your brother and his experience that should enlighten me?"

Neo. It was only to indicate or as an example, that even a person I know very well is 110% loyal to, what so ever The Watchtower Society are teaching, make of doctrines or changes, he like many others, blindly follows without questioning, which I am sure of you also have a more wider experience of, as a member of the Society and based at the world history, where people blindly have and still are willing to follow their leaders, even that it will cost themselves or others their lives.

I have mentioned it before, but the Nürnberg process send a clear message to all, that you are not released from your responsibility, when it comes to the death of other persons by using the excuse; "I was only following orders", whether it has its origin from political or religious leaders!

Neologist wrote:


No one is questioning your ability to make an informed choice. The question is whether you are allowed to exercise your ability to make an informed choice from within the Watchtower arrangement. As a JW you are required to accept and promote all Watchtower teachings. So what would you do if you determined that some teaching of the Watchtower Society was in error? Would you continue to promote it as truth?

Further research on the UN NGO topic may be found here.

Far be it from me to claim the argument closed; but it certainly appears to be a tempest in a coffee pot, at best.

As for the idea of fol owing without questioning, I test every so-called inspired statement. It is my Christian responsibility. But, I am even less a candidate for infallibility than the Watchtower Society.

In fact, I just burned some toast this morning.

No, I would likely cover it as something I have yet to understand. No members that I know of, or very few, profess complete understanding and agreement with every pronouncement of the Society. I've already told you I consider the few things about which I have questions to be no more than dust.

Name an organization that claims perfection and we'll talk about that one for a while.

" am researching the background of the Watchtower Society's membership in the UN NGO, which I knew nothing about. That it was an error is evident from their decision to withdraw. But The Society has never claimed immunity from error. On a scale of 0 to 10, with the Catholic - Nazi Concordat of 1933, having Franz Von Papen and Cardinal Pacelli as signatories being a 9, I rate the Society's indiscretion a 1."

Neo. "I am really sorry for being responsible for your daughter or sons death" but as you describe yourself, I have never claimed immunity from error!

Whether you are responsible for one death person or many, it doesn't matter in the eyes of Jehovah. Jeremiah 7:31-33!

You can not blame other religious organisations to get approved, like the scribers and pharisees where Jesus saidin Matthew 7:3-5!

7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

That is what The Watchtower Society have done in all their history, to create cheap points, but I agree with you that they also carry on blodguilt!

All with the slightest knowledge to the Watchtower and Awake magazines knows that The Society had an still make statements where they claims to speak on behalf of all their members, which isn't true e.g. A JW will always say and will never do so and so.... which isn't correct they can speak for themselves but not on behalf on others, but the reason is because they force everybody who don't wanna be disfellowshipped to follow their teachings and doctrines and put sanctions behind, and that was the reason for quoting Albert Barnes, which Bible commentator The Watchtower refer to Albert Barnes often to get support for other parts of their teaching and doctrines.

I missed the Albert Barnes quote. I'll go back and look for it. As for the climate of fear you profess amongst Jehovah's Witnesses, perhaps you are more observant of paranoia than I.

Not quite sure what you meant by this:


Hmm. Conducting a search on this site for the word Barnes produced only the above post. Why does that not surprise me?

Teleologist wrote:


Neologist replied:


But what if the teaching is just plain false? Do you have the ability to determine this? You trusted your power of reason to guide your decision to become a JW but now you seem to have lost your confidence in it.

"As for the idea of fol owing without questioning, I test every so-called inspired statement. It is my Christian responsibility. But, I am even less a candidate for infallibility than the Watchtower Society"

Neo. Have you also tried to test 1914, generation, 1925 and 1975 and have you ever read Deuteronomy 18:20-22! where it comes forth how we can find out wheter it is a word Jehovah has spoken or not?

The Watchtower Society claims ones that Russel was a prophet and have changed that many times, whom it is and now it is the Society, whatsoever!

18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

There are much better pages than the one you have found and there is also the article from the newspapers and letter to the Society from concerned brothers and elders.

Do you know anything about the last information I receive, that The Society have 50% shares in manufactoring plant which produce components for the US armed forces.

Watchtower Society Owns Bomb Factory????

Using the url, http://www.tenkwizard.com/ and typing "Watchtower" into their search engine, reveals the following:

The Watchtower Society Owns "A Bomb" Parts Factory "Rand Cam Engine Corp. is a privately held company whose stock is reportedly owned 50% by The Watchtower Society, a religious organization, 34% by James McCann and the balance by several other shareholders. Mr. McCann has indicated that he donated the shares held by The Watchtower Society to that organization but has retained a voting proxy for those shares. Accordingly, in Notes (3) and (4) above, beneficial ownership of the 5,367,900 shares registered in the name of Rand Energy Group Inc. has been attributed to The Watchtower Society and Mr. McCann.

The Company issued 5,700,000 shares of its Common Stock at a deemed value of $0.01 per share to Rand Energy Group Inc. ("REGI") in exchange for certain valuable rights, technology, information, and other tangible and intangible assets relating to the United States rights to the Rand Cam Engine (the "Original Engine"). REGI is a privately-held British Columbia corporation which is 51% controlled by Reg Technologies, Inc., a publicly-held British Columbia corporation ("Reg Tech").

In 1995, the Company acquired an exclusive limited sublicense to market and distribute in Canada the rights to Machine Vision Technology. On October 31, 1995, the Company sold its rights to the Machine Vision Technology to Reg Tech for $200,000. All obligations pursuant to the sublicense were transferred to Reg Tech.

The defense industry has applied machine vision technology to "smart" bombs, which use video imaging technology to identify targets through the use of special optic sensors. The sensors feed scenic information into sophisticated computer programs that then process the scenic information into target location coordinates."

=========================================================================

Reg Technologies, Inc. - 1995 President's Report

http://www.regtech.com/press/press1995.htm

This Initial Business Plan pertains to Reg Technologies, Inc. ("Reg Tech" or "Reg" or "the Company") acquisition and plans to market the Air Vapor Flow System ("AVFS"), which the Company's management ("Management") represents as an innovative fuel conditioning technology. Also included is a brief update on development of the Company's Rand Cam technology. http://www.regtech.com/avfs_introduction.htm

Executive Summary:

http://www.regtech.com/avfs_executivesummary.htm

The Rand Cam Engine is 50% lighter and has 2 to 3 times the power of a stratified Wankel engine, and is roughly the same size http://www.regtech.com/

REGI U.S., Inc. is engaged in the business of developing and building an improved axial vane-type rotary engine known as the Rand Cam/Direct Charge Engine (RC/DC Engine), which is a variation of the Rand Cam Rotary Engine, an axial vane rotary engine. The Company holds the rights to develop, build, and market the RC/DC Engine design in the United States pursuant to an agreement with Rand Energy Group, Inc. (RAND). Each company will fund 50% of the continuing development cost of the RC/DC Engine. The Company is controlled which in turn is controlled 51% by Reg Technologies, Inc.

http://www.irr.org/jwfacten.html

MACHINE VISION TECHNOLOGY, TRANSPORTATION ENGINEERING CAL POLY UNIVERSITY

http://airship.ardfa.calpoly.edu/vips/machine.html

Robotics Institute, CMRI Developing Machine Vision Technology Under a collaborative research program involving Carnegie Mellon Robotics Institute, CMRI's Applied Advanced Technologies Group (AAT) has produced a new advance in automated vision technology: the development of hardware for a spectro-polarimetric machine vision system for use in intelligent transportation systems. http://www.cmu.edu/cmri/adm_mv.tech.html

Fundamentals of Machine Vision Technology

http://www.assemblymag.com/articles/1998/Mar/0398arc4extra.htm

How to find a needle in a haystack

http://www.online.nf.ca/industry/howtofin.html

McCann-Erickson

With billings of more than $18.5 billion and operations in 127 countries, McCann-Erickson WorldGroup is the largest marketing communications network organization in the world. It is built on the foundation of McCann-Erickson's almost century-long history as an international-minded advertising agency. McCann, for example, first expanded with owned agencies out of its U.S. borders into Canada in 1913, into Europe in 1927, into Latin America in 1935 and into the Asia Pacific region in 1959. Look at: Global Clients Note: James McCann, no specific connection, need more research! http://www.mccann.com/




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Original Page



REGI stockbroker report shows military connections for Rand Cam

Rand Energy Group Inc.

REGI U S INC, filed this SB-2/A on 07/23/1996.

REGI U S INC, filed this 10KSB40 on 07/31/1996.

REGI U S INC, filed this 10KSB40/A on 08/12/1996.

REGI U S INC, filed this PRE 14A on 09/05/1996.

REGI U S INC, filed this DEF 14A on 09/17/1996.

REGI U S INC, filed this DEF 14A on 10/07/1998 - (1)

The Watchtower and Regi Inc

Jehovah's Witnesses are making money on war!

Teleologist wrote:


Neologist replied:


So if I understand you correctly you are saying that if you determined that a teaching of the Watchtower Society was in error you wouldn't continue to promote it as truth. Is that correct?

Do you?

Teleologist wrote:
Quote:
what would you do if you determined that some teaching of the Watchtower Society was in error? Would you continue to promote it as truth?


Neologist replied:
Quote:
No, I would likely cover it as something I have yet to understand.


But what if the teaching is just plain false? Do you have the ability to determine this? You trusted your power of reason to guide your decision to become a JW but now you seem to have lost your confidence in it.


Do you?

Hephzibah. Let me give you an example. The watchtower Society have announced the end several times,, but let me start with the latest ones 1914, 25 and 1975 and the 1914 generation, but have "the end" come. No, I am sure that you agree with me!

It will come, but not because of false Prophets and prophecies which do not fall in and at doctrines, but only in accordance to Jehovahs time table.

They have furthermore announced that vaccinations was the act of Satan, but if they was, how does it come that they now allow their members to be associated with Satanic acts?, it's is nowaday only a matter of conscience!

It is so obviously that everyone who isn't under control of their Mind Control, indoctrination processes, by repeating the same and the same 5 times every week, all the year around, can see how vicked the doctrines are, now latest when they forbide red blood cells to be used but allow 97 % of the red blood cels, without the donut, from slaughtered animal, where the Bible without any chance for misunderstandings, in Leviticus 17:13 tells us, that killed animals blood shall be poured out as water.

They forbide also white blood cells to be used, but the milk contains 5-12 times more white blood cells than in the same volume of blood. Its logically that we are allowed to drink milk, isn't it not?

I can give you multible examples and I hope you agree with me that the Watchtowers prophesies, that the end was comming, do not complete in 1914, 25 and 75 and within the generation who has been alive in 1914!

Do you?

You are asking for a conclusion to unpecified propositions. I think they call that apriorism.

You can find a defintion here.

"Name an organization that claims perfection and we'll talk about that one for a while."

Neo have you forgotten that The Society do not claim that they are inspired, but claim to be lead by The Holy Spirit!

If I understand it correct, The Holy Spirit is Jehovahs "energetic force". Do I use the right theocratical term in my english expression.

Consider that the statement is correct, haven't the Society maked Jehovahs energetic force totally toothless, because if they really are lead by it, why does not all members of the Governing Body vote for or against a change in religious matters, which they later on announce as "New light" or better say doctrine, which also shall be seen in the light of, that they claims to be Gods channel, His chosen Organization on earth and whom He use to announce his commandments through etc. etc.!

If it was Jehovah who was behind and instructed the Watchtower Society in the question of years, generation and medical use of blood, wouldn't it not and then have been possible for him to give the correct understanding or expression from the beginning, without all that flickering lights?

I can only speak from experience about the 1975 date, as I was a member at that time. It was referred to only as the year representing 6000 years since the creation of Adam, which it is. True, many believed this would herald the 1000 years spoken of in the book of Revelation, but the society warned members not to assume anything. No one could know how long Adam lived before the end of the 6th day. And Jesus said he would "come as a thief." (Revelation 16:15) Consequently, I expected nothing, as did the majority of my associates. My ex wife left the organization over it, though.

Everything I have read about the 1914 scenario is essentially the same. It was and is the year in which the Gentile times (according to Daniel) were to have ended. World events seem to corroborate that assertion as well.

As for the 1914 generation, you may take the time to explain it, if you will. Then I'll tell you why it is not important.

So long as the "path . . . {continues} like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established." (Proverbs 4:18) I'll keep feeding at the table.

Inspired, yes; but not perfect. Error is to be expected. It is how one responds to the error that makes the difference.

First things first Talkactive. Not trying to be sarcastic or rude, but have you not found the quote button yet? It is on the top right side of this post. If you click it, it will quote the whole post you just read. Just a suggestion though...

Ok, now on to the more interesting stuff:



Do you really think JW are the only one's who have given a "time the end will come"? LOL if you do, you are being quite naive my friend... with a twist of arrogance in there as well. Arrogance becomes no one that I've ever met. Myself included.

2So long as the "path . . . {continues} like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established." (Proverbs 4:18) I'll keep feeding at the table."

I agree with you that 1914 isn't so important as the ban on vaccinations, organ and the blood, because none has died, but many couples have been without children and as I am informed about, even that members sold their properties, went into the field service, stayed unmarried and got no children opposite Jehovahs commandment in Genesis 9:1-7 and Colossians 2:8-20! The doctrine has its origin from the Adventists, Brown and Barbour and was "bought" by Russell. It can be documented by reading Herald of the Morning vol 7. no 1. from July 1878, where it comes forth in the right lower corner; "Times of the Gentiles end in 1914"!

In the question of the ban on vaccinations, organs and the medical use of blood, thousands have died, do you think that Jehovah would have let that trespassing and getting the light to shine brighter, instead of given clear instructions to avoid unnecessary death casualties?

It is quite clear and obviously that The Governing Body plays russian roulette with their members life and health, latest by allowing storage and use of blood from slaughtered cow with a great and potential risk to be infected with the animal variant of CJD, mad cow disease BSE and where the bible in clear term tells us that it shall be poured out as water!

Teleologist wrote:


Neologist replied:


Teleologist replied:


Neologist replied:


Nonsense. You already provided a conclusion to my unpecified proposition. I just asked you if I understood your conclusion corrrectly. Now you are refusing to provide clarification. I asked you this question: if you determined that some teaching of the Watchtower Society was in error would you continue to promote it as truth? To which you replied: No, I would likely cover it as something I have yet to understand.

That's sounds to me like you are saying that if you determined that a teaching of the Watchtower Society was in error that you wouldn't continue to promote it as truth. Do I have that right? Yes or no?