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When Discrimination Makes Sense

 
 
Reply Tue 8 Aug, 2006 02:32 am
The following is an excerpt from "When Discrimination Makes Sense," by Dinesh D'Souza, Hoover Digest, Fall 1999.

Is Racism Involved?

The American Civil Liberties Union recently released a report that cited mounting evidence of racially motivated police stops. Some members of Congress and state legislators are demanding that the practice be outlawed. Cabdrivers are being fined and even losing their licenses for passing up young black males. Civil rights leaders are calling for much tougher measures to stop what one terms "a shameful resurgence of racism." Yet in these cases, it is not clear that racism is involved. In Washington, D.C., for example, few of the cabdrivers accused of bigotry for passing up young black males are white. Many are immigrants from El Salvador, Nigeria, Pakistan, and the West Indies, and African American cabdrivers apparently act similarly.

At this point, sociologists are prone to launch into tortuous speculations about how historically victimized groups "internalize" their white oppressors' bigotry. But the explanation for the actions of the nonwhite cabdriver can far more simply and plausibly be attributed to two key facts. First, black males are six to ten times more likely to be convicted of violent crimes than white males. Second, more than 25 percent of black males between the ages of fifteen and thirty-five are, at any given time, in prison, on probation, or on parole. (For whites, the comparable figure is about 5 percent.) Far from being a myth, the reality is that young black males are, by far, the most violent group in U.S. society.

These are uncomfortable social facts, but they are facts. Consequently, the treatment accorded young African American males by police officers, cabdrivers, storekeepers, and others cannot be attributed to irrational prejudice. It is more likely the product of rational discrimination. In a situation in which we have limited information about individuals (cabdrivers, for instance, are not in a position to know their clients personally), we must make group judgments based on probability.

The concept of rational discrimination is easier to grasp if we look outside the racial context. Insurance companies, for example, charge teenage boys higher car insurance rates than teenage girls (or older drivers, for that matter). The reason isn't sexism or antimale prejudice; the statistical reality is that, on average, teenage boys are far more likely than teenage girls to bash their cars. So the insurance company is treating groups differently because they behave differently.

Although rational discrimination against African Americans is a social problem, its magnitude should not be exaggerated. Strictly speaking, it makes no sense for a bank manager to refuse to hire a black teller because blacks as a group have a high crime rate; the manager can easily investigate whether this particular African American job seeker has a criminal record. So also mortgage lenders cannot rationally refuse loans to blacks on the grounds that blacks pose a higher repayment risk; again, the lender can look at each applicant's income and credit history.

Still, rational discrimination is a fact of everyday life, and what to do about it poses a genuine public policy problem. Just because discrimination can be rational does not mean it is always moral. Indeed, the rational discrimination of cops, cabdrivers, and storekeepers is very unfair to the law-abiding African American who has done nothing wrong but is treated as a potential criminal. Yet before we approve harsh punishments against those who practice rational discrimination, we should recall that their only offense is using common sense. Shouldn't African Americans who are legitimately outraged at being victimized by discrimination direct their anger not at cabdrivers or police officers but at the black thieves, muggers, and crack dealers who are giving the entire group a bad name?

Dealing with Discrimination

My solution is that all forms of racial discrimination, including rational discrimination, should be illegal in the public sector. This means that police officers, who are agents of the state, should not be permitted to use race in deciding whether to question potential muggers or stop suspected drug dealers. The reason: We have a constitutional right to be treated equally under the law, meaning the government has no right to discriminate on the basis of race or color.

This point of principle will seem naive to those who ask about its cost in terms of police efficiency. The prudent answer is that there are other (in my view, more important) costs to be weighed. Government-sponsored rational discrimination has the cataclysmic social effect of polarizing African Americans who play by the rules and still cannot avoid being discriminated against. Even law-abiding blacks become enemies of the system because they find themselves treated that way.

In the private sector, we should be more flexible in dealing with rational discrimination. I think the campaign to go after cabdrivers for alleged bigotry is especially foolish. Of course, as a "person of color" myself, I'd be annoyed and indignant if I could not get a taxi. Yet my right to get a cab, which is the right not to be inconvenienced, seems less important than the cabdriver's right to protect his life and property. In cases such as this, it is better for the government to do nothing.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 4,257 • Replies: 71
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Aug, 2006 03:01 pm
A good friend of mine was a cab driver in Boston for about 7 years. There were parts of town he had learned not to go to because there were drug dealers looking to use him as a courier. If his fares wanted to go there they would have to pay up front and he was allowed to let them out 2-3 blocks from their destination. But he never turned anyone away just because they were black.
0 Replies
 
Anonymous Net Surfer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 02:55 am
NickFun wrote:
A good friend of mine was a cab driver in Boston for about 7 years. There were parts of town he had learned not to go to because there were drug dealers looking to use him as a courier. If his fares wanted to go there they would have to pay up front and he was allowed to let them out 2-3 blocks from their destination. But he never turned anyone away just because they were black.


Your friend appears to have exercised rational discrimination.

It should be noted that D'Souza is not suggesting that race be the sole consideration on which to base rational discrimination; race is merely one factor to be considered.
0 Replies
 
MarionT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Sep, 2006 05:38 pm
I think that rational discrimination is an excuse for people who are bigots.
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 02:11 am
Re: When Discrimination Makes Sense
Anonymous_Net_Surfer wrote:
But the explanation for the actions of the nonwhite cabdriver can far more simply and plausibly be attributed to two key facts. First, black males are six to ten times more likely to be convicted of violent crimes than white males. Second, more than 25 percent of black males between the ages of fifteen and thirty-five are, at any given time, in prison, on probation, or on parole. (For whites, the comparable figure is about 5 percent.) Far from being a myth, the reality is that young black males are, by far, the most violent group in U.S. society.


Is it actually a reality that young black males are the most violent group in U.S. society?

I honestly wonder.

Yeah, there are a lot of black people in jail. So many, actually, that it gives even the silliest person pause.

........

I recognize that is but one example the author was using. But, I find his thinking rather weak and presumptuous.

Way oversimplified.

Where's the mention of money?
0 Replies
 
MarionT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Sep, 2006 03:36 pm
It is true. There are more young black males in prison than any other group. But that is due to two things. First of all, a racist court system which treats young blacks like third class citizens. Secondly, whites are never jailed as often as blacks even proportionate to the population since they have more money because of the racist structure of our society and are able to afford high priced lawyers to defend them.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 09:38 am
More blacks are arrested, convicted and jailed than whites. And as stated above, this is due to many factors.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 01:29 pm
At times during the last 30 years, 75% of the prison population in BC were native Indians. I'm sure many of the reasons were the same as for the black prison population in the U.S.

Of course racism exists; I don't know how it cannot.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Sep, 2006 01:37 pm
MarionT wrote:
I think that rational discrimination is an excuse for people who are bigots.


I discriminate daily.

I decide who I speak to, where I eat, who I give rides to.

Has nothing to do with race. We all discriminate daily in our lives.

Are we all bigots?
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 11:22 pm
Quote:
First, black males are six to ten times more likely to be convicted of violent crimes than white males. Second, more than 25 percent of black males between the ages of fifteen and thirty-five are, at any given time, in prison, on probation, or on parole. (For whites, the comparable figure is about 5 percent.) Far from being a myth, the reality is that young black males are, by far, the most violent group in U.S. society.


I can hardly believe the conclusions of this article and that the author had any common sense about the Law , Justice or race relations in the US.

Conviction of a violent crime is nothing more than a conviction. It does not prove, without a doubt, that the crime in question was actually committed by the defendant. Recall the OJ case where most Whites concluded OJ was the killer, while most Blacks concluded he was innocent. The jury found him to be innocent. Is he innocent?

Secondly, if 25% of black males ( 15-35) are in prison, on probation, or parole at any given time, tells us nothing about the crimes they were charged with nor does it prove anything about the accuracy of either the charge or the justice of the punishment.
0 Replies
 
MarionT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 11:39 pm
One of the main reasons why there are so many more Blacks in prison than Whites is that they cannot afford high quality legal professionals to help them go free.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 05:51 am
MarionT wrote:
One of the main reasons why there are so many more Blacks in prison than Whites is that they cannot afford high quality legal professionals to help them go free.


WHAT????? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 06:18 am
woiyo wrote:
MarionT wrote:
One of the main reasons why there are so many more Blacks in prison than Whites is that they cannot afford high quality legal professionals to help them go free.


WHAT????? Rolling Eyes


What don't you understand about the printed post?
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 06:20 am
woiyo wrote:
MarionT wrote:
One of the main reasons why there are so many more Blacks in prison than Whites is that they cannot afford high quality legal professionals to help them go free.


WHAT????? Rolling Eyes


Those who can't afford high quality lawyers, must resort to using either public defense lawyers or
even worse Embarrassed , 3rd year law students.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 06:50 am
Miller wrote:
woiyo wrote:
MarionT wrote:
One of the main reasons why there are so many more Blacks in prison than Whites is that they cannot afford high quality legal professionals to help them go free.


WHAT????? Rolling Eyes


Those who can't afford high quality lawyers, must resort to using either public defense lawyers or
even worse Embarrassed , 3rd year law students.


Yep, more excuses. If you are guilty, no lawyer can help
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 06:56 am
woiyo wrote:
Miller wrote:
woiyo wrote:
MarionT wrote:
One of the main reasons why there are so many more Blacks in prison than Whites is that they cannot afford high quality legal professionals to help them go free.


WHAT????? Rolling Eyes


Those who can't afford high quality lawyers, must resort to using either public defense lawyers or
even worse Embarrassed , 3rd year law students.


Yep, more excuses. If you are guilty, no lawyer can help


Wrong! if yo've got dough,you can buy yourself tons of "justice".
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 11:00 am
Re: When Discrimination Makes Sense
Anonymous_Net_Surfer's source wrote:
But the explanation for the actions of the nonwhite cabdriver can far more simply and plausibly be attributed to two key facts. First, black males are six to ten times more likely to be convicted of violent crimes than white males.


Six times or ten times more likely, which is it? The source provides no substantiation for this allegation, nor explain the discrepancy implicit in the stated range of probability.

Quote:
Second, more than 25 percent of black males between the ages of fifteen and thirty-five are, at any given time, in prison, on probation, or on parole. (For whites, the comparable figure is about 5 percent.)


Just off hand, i'd say those among that 25% who are actually incarcerated can reasonably be said to represent no threat of violence to cab drivers. This "statistic" ignores that if the police traditionally focus their attentions on young, black males, the probability of the apprehension of young, black males for crimes is higher that is that for young, white males. It also ignores the economic demographic--are young, white males in the same economic demographic as young, black males as likely to commit crimes, and to act violently? Once again, this source is throwing out "statistics" for which no substantiation is provided, and the demographic foundations for which strongly appear to be dubious.

Quote:
Far from being a myth, the reality is that young black males are, by far, the most violent group in U.S. society.


The reader is left to take this statement from authority for truth, without plausible evidence having been presented, and in despite of the high probability that police officers are more likely to attempt to apprehend young, black males from a low economic demographic that they are to attempt to apprehend young, while males from the same economic demographic. It futher ignores the impact of economic deprivation--far more young, black men come from the low income demographic proportionately than do young, white males.

In short, no substantiation is provide for these claims, and if the author claims a statistical basis, it can reasonably be objected that his method of demographic analysis is likely flawed.

As everyone knows, statistics are the leading cause of cancer.

Quote:
These are uncomfortable social facts, but they are facts.


No, they are allegations.

Quote:
Consequently, the treatment accorded young African American males by police officers, cabdrivers, storekeepers, and others cannot be attributed to irrational prejudice. It is more likely the product of rational discrimination. In a situation in which we have limited information about individuals (cabdrivers, for instance, are not in a position to know their clients personally), we must make group judgments based on probability.


Anyone familiar with the residential demographics of Washington, D.C., or other major cities in the United States, but especially Washington, will know that in the low-income demographic, young, black males are overwhelming the young, male members of that income group that one would encounter. To put it bluntly, most poor residents of cities are black, and most poor whites live in rural areas.

Quote:
The concept of rational discrimination is easier to grasp if we look outside the racial context. Insurance companies, for example, charge teenage boys higher car insurance rates than teenage girls (or older drivers, for that matter). The reason isn't sexism or antimale prejudice; the statistical reality is that, on average, teenage boys are far more likely than teenage girls to bash their cars. So the insurance company is treating groups differently because they behave differently.


Whereas that may be so, as regards an act of considered discrimination against teenaged boys, it is not based on an artificial (even imaginary) distinction, which is to say, race. There is only one race among us--the human race. All other references to race are false. One can reasonably refer to ethnicity and concommitant culture, but that is not being done here.

Another major distinction overlooked by the author is that insurance companies use actuarial tables to arrive at such decisions. In short, they have some of the most reliable demographic statistics available to anyone, anywhere. Insurance companies know in greater detail than anyone else what the risks are because they have the most complete records of automotive losses due to driver error or criminality. I can see why the author overlooks this, though, since it would be such a major objection to the feeble thesis being advanced here.

Quote:
Although rational discrimination against African Americans is a social problem, its magnitude should not be exaggerated. Strictly speaking, it makes no sense for a bank manager to refuse to hire a black teller because blacks as a group have a high crime rate; the manager can easily investigate whether this particular African American job seeker has a criminal record. So also mortgage lenders cannot rationally refuse loans to blacks on the grounds that blacks pose a higher repayment risk; again, the lender can look at each applicant's income and credit history.


Nevertheless, the practice of "redlining" remains common in the banking and insurance industries.

Quote:
Still, rational discrimination is a fact of everyday life, and what to do about it poses a genuine public policy problem. Just because discrimination can be rational does not mean it is always moral. Indeed, the rational discrimination of cops, cabdrivers, and storekeepers is very unfair to the law-abiding African American who has done nothing wrong but is treated as a potential criminal.


It is also anecdotal, and ignores an equivalent threat from poor, young, white males. A section of Columbus, Ohio in which i once worked--known as The Bottoms--was described by a friend as "West Virginia West." (He was a native of West Virginia, and was actually quite accurate about the proportion of the population of that neighborhood which were native to that state, or whose parents were native to that state.) In that neighborhood, the 13- and 14-year-old crack whores were white; in that neighborhood, the street-corner drug dealers were white; in that neighborhood, the muggers were white. I rather susupect that experienced and intelligent police officers, cab drivers and shopkeepers make these judgments based on the apparently economic demographic of those with whom they deal, as opposed to being so stupid as to simply trust a white boy just because he's white.

Quote:
Yet before we approve harsh punishments against those who practice rational discrimination, we should recall that their only offense is using common sense. Shouldn't African Americans who are legitimately outraged at being victimized by discrimination direct their anger not at cabdrivers or police officers but at the black thieves, muggers, and crack dealers who are giving the entire group a bad name?


In that the author does not seem to have deployed much common sense, i cannot accept these rhetorical questions as being based on anything more than the notions the author wishes to plant in the mind of the reader, as opposed to "facts," as the author alleges.

Quote:
Dealing with Discrimination

My solution is that all forms of racial discrimination, including rational discrimination, should be illegal in the public sector. This means that police officers, who are agents of the state, should not be permitted to use race in deciding whether to question potential muggers or stop suspected drug dealers. The reason: We have a constitutional right to be treated equally under the law, meaning the government has no right to discriminate on the basis of race or color.

This point of principle will seem naive to those who ask about its cost in terms of police efficiency. The prudent answer is that there are other (in my view, more important) costs to be weighed. Government-sponsored rational discrimination has the cataclysmic social effect of polarizing African Americans who play by the rules and still cannot avoid being discriminated against. Even law-abiding blacks become enemies of the system because they find themselves treated that way.

In the private sector, we should be more flexible in dealing with rational discrimination. I think the campaign to go after cabdrivers for alleged bigotry is especially foolish. Of course, as a "person of color" myself, I'd be annoyed and indignant if I could not get a taxi. Yet my right to get a cab, which is the right not to be inconvenienced, seems less important than the cabdriver's right to protect his life and property. In cases such as this, it is better for the government to do nothing.


The author asserts, without establishing, that a racial demographic is more likely to be criminal in their behavior. The author ignores the important influence of economic opportunity, and cultural background. Those who grow up in hopeless neighborhoods, the children of hopeless teenage parents, are likely to be hopeless, and to display a "dont' give a damn" attitude toward crime and violence. Those who have nothing have nothing to lose.

The author would acheive more credibility by having done his homework more carefully, and by having shown a due regard for detailed demographics. If one were able to show that young, black me within a specific demographic group, in a specific locale (i.e., comparing urban residents to urban residents, and rural residents to rural residents) were more prone to violence, and be able to give more reliable evidence for the case with comparisons of equivalent groups of different races--he might have a point. As it stands, this is an exercise in paltry persuasion and innuendo which relies upon the gullibility of the reader, and the reader's propensity to wish to hear the message, rather than an appeal to well-founded fact.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 11:50 am
The author of this article is a noted conservative author and commentator, for whom the issue of race is a particular hobby horse. This does not mean that he is wrong in what he writes, but it does make what he writes suspect as having a possible partisan political bias. You can read about Dinesh D'Souza in a Wikipedia article.

For an alternate view to that espoused by Mr. D'Souza, as expressed in his book An End to Racism, one can read this critique by F. V. Walton. I was not able to identiby F. V. Walton, to provide information upon which one might judge whether or not F. V. Walton is attempting to grind a political axe.

Linked at the Wikipedia article is this opinion piece at San Diego Reader-dot-com. In the first paragraph of the article, the author writes:

Quote:
Not long ago, Dinesh D'Souza, who is an Indian immigrant from Bombay, one of America's prominent conservative authors, and, like William F. Buckley Jr., an enthusiastic and skilled debater, was discussing things political and personal with a group of Indian-American students. One young man tentatively asked, "How will I know when I've become an American?" A quipper in the tradition of his hero Ronald Reagan, the quintessential political quipster, D'Souza replied, "One way you'll know is by voting Republican." What he meant by that, he tells me at his home in Fairbanks Ranch, where he, his wife Dixie, and their ten-year-old daughter live in a very big house, "is that the Republican Party is the party of the insiders, the guys who feel at home. So when the immigrant feels he can vote Republican, he's saying, 'I'm on the inside of the system. I'm not throwing stones from the outside. It benefits me to be on the inside. I believe in the team.' " Given a question about self-discovery, D'Souza opts for a partisan answer. It's the kind of response he's good at -- glib, provocative, tendentious.


Mr. Larson asserts that the text of this article was subsequently heavily edited and posted at D'Souza's web site, without his permission and that he was obliged to threaten to sue Mr. D'Souza in order for Mr. D'Souza to remove the edited article from his (D'Souza's) web site. You can read Mr. Larson's versions of those events in this article posted at CounterPunch-dot-org, which is considered a left-wing web site.

The Wikipedia article on CounterPunch-dot-org makes the following introductory remarks about the web site:

Quote:
CounterPunch is a biweekly newsletter published in the United States that covers politics from a left-wing perspective. It has a website which contains much more material not published in the newsletter.

Running six to eight pages in length, the CounterPunch newsletter primarily publishes commentaries by Cockburn and St. Clair with regular contributions by others. It is noted for its critical coverage of both Democratic and Republican politicians and its extensive reporting of environmental and trade union issues, American foreign policy, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. CounterPunch considers itself to carry on the tradition of muckraking journalism of earlier investigative journalists such as I.F. Stone and George Seldes, casting its approach as "muckraking with a radical attitude."


(N.B.: As it sometimes occurs, and for reasons unknown to me, i was not able to make links to the Wikipedia articles work. Therefore i suggest that those wishing to know more about Mr. D'Souza and about CounterPunch-dot-org go to the Wikipedia site and search for those articles.)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 11:54 am
woiyo wrote:
Miller wrote:
woiyo wrote:
MarionT wrote:
One of the main reasons why there are so many more Blacks in prison than Whites is that they cannot afford high quality legal professionals to help them go free.


WHAT????? Rolling Eyes


Those who can't afford high quality lawyers, must resort to using either public defense lawyers or
even worse Embarrassed , 3rd year law students.


Yep, more excuses. If you are guilty, no lawyer can help


So then, we can assume that you consider O. J. Simpson to have been innocent, since if he had been guilty, Jonnie Cochran would not have been able to help him--according to your thesis.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 01:17 pm
Setanta wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Miller wrote:
woiyo wrote:
MarionT wrote:
One of the main reasons why there are so many more Blacks in prison than Whites is that they cannot afford high quality legal professionals to help them go free.


WHAT????? Rolling Eyes


Those who can't afford high quality lawyers, must resort to using either public defense lawyers or
even worse Embarrassed , 3rd year law students.


Yep, more excuses. If you are guilty, no lawyer can help


So then, we can assume that you consider O. J. Simpson to have been innocent, since if he had been guilty, Jonnie Cochran would not have been able to help him--according to your thesis.


Not exactly. The States attornies blew that case.
0 Replies
 
 

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