Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs On Children

najmelliw wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

najmelliw wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

The Palestinians firebomb school buses (as, for instance, at Kafr Darom), blow up marketplaces, bomb discotheques, murder olympic teams, etc. Case closed.

Yeah, you know, you convinced me, Brandon. You're right of course. There's not a single Israelite in Israel whom isn't like a kazillion times a better person then all the Palestinians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Arabs, Syrians and other Middle eastern rifraff, conveniently grouped under the term slammite, combined. So let's just throw some atomic bombs on those countries. Just wipe em all out, then there are no more terrorists! Yay! And if the international community protests, let's drop some bombs on them as well... Until everyone sees the glorious truth, that the cause of the USA and Israel is just, because they are the USA and Israel!

You're actually putting words in my mouth that I never spoke, ideas I never advocated anywhere, and then pointing out that they're wrong? That's how you're trying to support your ideas? Ha ha ha. You lose.

Everything I said in the above post is the absolute truth. If you disagree that people claiming to represent the Palestinians have done these terrible things, then just present your evidence.

Ooh.. Look at that. Here you state in the original post : The Palestinians. And now, you use the following term: 'people claiming to represent the Palestinians' There's a huge difference, but you probably refuse to see it like that.

Done attributing statements to me that I never made? Good. When Palestinians, claiming to represent the other Palestinians murder a busload of school children, or detonate a bomb in a public marketplace, I believe I can state, "The Palestinians bombed......"

Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Brandon, i'm willing to stipulate that Palestinians bomb school buses, since you've gotten your panties in a twist about it....

An indication, I'm afraid, of the level of your concern about Israeli victims. We were talking about a deliberate attack on school children here. Hardly an eccentricity of mine that I consider it important.

No, the eccentricity arises in that you don't display the same horror for the deaths of Palestinian and Lebanese children. McG has claimed that i have erected a strawman, but both you and McG shout "terrorists" and when someone deplores the deaths of Palestinians or Lebanese, you claim that they sympathize with terrorists--it seems obvious, therefore, that both of you consider Palestinians or Lebanese to be terrorists by defintion--hence my claim that you both subscribe to the "islamo-fascist" demonization of any "enemy" of Israel. People who are the victims of the state terrorism of Israel are, as you and he claim, simply the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of Hamas or Hezbollah. If that is so, your schoolbus full of children are just the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of the militarist government of Israel.

You constantly want to engage in special pleading for the Israelis, and then condemn anyone who deplores Palestinians or Lebanese as sympathetic to "terrorists." It is impossible to escape the conclusion that you consider all Palestinians and Lebanese to be terrorist by defintion--even the children killed by Isreali cluster bombs.

Setanta wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Brandon, i'm willing to stipulate that Palestinians bomb school buses, since you've gotten your panties in a twist about it....

An indication, I'm afraid, of the level of your concern about Israeli victims. We were talking about a deliberate attack on school children here. Hardly an eccentricity of mine that I consider it important.

No, the eccentricity arises in that you don't display the same horror for the deaths of Palestinian and Lebanese children. McG has claimed that i have erected a strawman, but both you and McG shout "terrorists" and when someone deplores the deaths of Palestinians or Lebanese, you claim that they sympathize with terrorists--it seems obvious, therefore, that both of you consider Palestinians or Lebanese to be terrorists by defintion--hence my claim that you both subscribe to the "islamo-fascist" demonization of any "enemy" of Israel. People who are the victims of the state terrorism of Israel are, as you and he claim, simply the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of Hamas or Hezbollah. If that is so, your schoolbus full of children are just the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of the militarist government of Israel.

You constantly want to engage in special pleading for the Israelis, and then condemn anyone who deplores Palestinians or Lebanese as sympathetic to "terrorists." It is impossible to escape the conclusion that you consider all Palestinians and Lebanese to be terrorist by defintion--even the children killed by Isreali cluster bombs.

My point is that while all deaths of innocent people are equally regrettable, the degree of guilt connected with their deaths varies widely. The Palestinians deliberately attack non-combatants. They firebomb buses of children. They bomb public markets. The Israelis, by contrast, never aim at non-combatants, although, as has happened in every war since the dawn of time, sometimes they get non-combatants accidentally. Deliberately trying to kill non-combatants on the one hand, and aiming at a valid target, but killing a few innocent bystanders on the other, are worlds apart morally. There is no comparison at all.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Brandon, i'm willing to stipulate that Palestinians bomb school buses, since you've gotten your panties in a twist about it....

An indication, I'm afraid, of the level of your concern about Israeli victims. We were talking about a deliberate attack on school children here. Hardly an eccentricity of mine that I consider it important.

No, the eccentricity arises in that you don't display the same horror for the deaths of Palestinian and Lebanese children. McG has claimed that i have erected a strawman, but both you and McG shout "terrorists" and when someone deplores the deaths of Palestinians or Lebanese, you claim that they sympathize with terrorists--it seems obvious, therefore, that both of you consider Palestinians or Lebanese to be terrorists by defintion--hence my claim that you both subscribe to the "islamo-fascist" demonization of any "enemy" of Israel. People who are the victims of the state terrorism of Israel are, as you and he claim, simply the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of Hamas or Hezbollah. If that is so, your schoolbus full of children are just the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of the militarist government of Israel.

You constantly want to engage in special pleading for the Israelis, and then condemn anyone who deplores Palestinians or Lebanese as sympathetic to "terrorists." It is impossible to escape the conclusion that you consider all Palestinians and Lebanese to be terrorist by defintion--even the children killed by Isreali cluster bombs.

My point is that while all deaths of innocent people are equally regrettable, the degree of guilt connected with their deaths varies widely. The Palestinians deliberately attack non-combatants. They firebomb buses of children. They bomb public markets. The Israelis, by contrast, never aim at non-combatants, although, as has happened in every war since the dawn of time, sometimes they get non-combatants accidentally. Deliberately trying to kill non-combatants on the one hand, and aiming at a valid target, but killing a few innocent bystanders on the other, are worlds apart morally. There is no comparison at all.

For all their pinpoint accuracy bombing the Israelis seem to have inadvertently killed quite many innocent bystanders, as UN observers and human rights organisations have concluded. Victims include a group of unarmed UN observers in a clearly marked observation post (who were killed after the UN had asked The Israeli army 10 times to stop firing on the observation post).

Can you also explain what the terrorist threat was that emanated from power plants as far north as Tyre? By inflicting more suffering on the already long suffering population of Lebanon Israel has created more impoverished, embittered recruits for the terrorist organisations like Hezbollah. It has also weakened the economy and the democratic movement in Lebanon and thus made the country yet more vulnerable to destabilisation by extremist movements.

I daresay I am a moderate and calm person and do not condone terrorism, but if my country were invaded, if my house were destroyed and my family were the innocent bystanders, then I would crave justice and support the defence of my country any way I can. But there is no justice, because Israel claims its actions are justified and so long as the US backs Israel no international action will be taken to punish them for killing my family and destroying my country. So, the only way to strike back will be the illegal way and Israel will call me a terrorist. You follow my drift?

Setanta wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Brandon, i'm willing to stipulate that Palestinians bomb school buses, since you've gotten your panties in a twist about it....

An indication, I'm afraid, of the level of your concern about Israeli victims. We were talking about a deliberate attack on school children here. Hardly an eccentricity of mine that I consider it important.

No, the eccentricity arises in that you don't display the same horror for the deaths of Palestinian and Lebanese children. McG has claimed that i have erected a strawman, but both you and McG shout "terrorists" and when someone deplores the deaths of Palestinians or Lebanese, you claim that they sympathize with terrorists--it seems obvious, therefore, that both of you consider Palestinians or Lebanese to be terrorists by defintion--hence my claim that you both subscribe to the "islamo-fascist" demonization of any "enemy" of Israel. People who are the victims of the state terrorism of Israel are, as you and he claim, simply the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of Hamas or Hezbollah. If that is so, your schoolbus full of children are just the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of the militarist government of Israel.

You constantly want to engage in special pleading for the Israelis, and then condemn anyone who deplores Palestinians or Lebanese as sympathetic to "terrorists." It is impossible to escape the conclusion that you consider all Palestinians and Lebanese to be terrorist by defintion--even the children killed by Isreali cluster bombs.

My point is that while all deaths of innocent people are equally regrettable, the degree of guilt connected with their deaths varies widely. The Palestinians deliberately attack non-combatants. They firebomb buses of children. They bomb public markets. The Israelis, by contrast, never aim at non-combatants, although, as has happened in every war since the dawn of time, sometimes they get non-combatants accidentally. Deliberately trying to kill non-combatants on the one hand, and aiming at a valid target, but killing a few innocent bystanders on the other, are worlds apart morally. There is no comparison at all.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Brandon, i'm willing to stipulate that Palestinians bomb school buses, since you've gotten your panties in a twist about it....

An indication, I'm afraid, of the level of your concern about Israeli victims. We were talking about a deliberate attack on school children here. Hardly an eccentricity of mine that I consider it important.

No, the eccentricity arises in that you don't display the same horror for the deaths of Palestinian and Lebanese children. McG has claimed that i have erected a strawman, but both you and McG shout "terrorists" and when someone deplores the deaths of Palestinians or Lebanese, you claim that they sympathize with terrorists--it seems obvious, therefore, that both of you consider Palestinians or Lebanese to be terrorists by defintion--hence my claim that you both subscribe to the "islamo-fascist" demonization of any "enemy" of Israel. People who are the victims of the state terrorism of Israel are, as you and he claim, simply the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of Hamas or Hezbollah. If that is so, your schoolbus full of children are just the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of the militarist government of Israel.

You constantly want to engage in special pleading for the Israelis, and then condemn anyone who deplores Palestinians or Lebanese as sympathetic to "terrorists." It is impossible to escape the conclusion that you consider all Palestinians and Lebanese to be terrorist by defintion--even the children killed by Isreali cluster bombs.

My point is that while all deaths of innocent people are equally regrettable, the degree of guilt connected with their deaths varies widely. The Palestinians deliberately attack non-combatants. They firebomb buses of children. They bomb public markets. The Israelis, by contrast, never aim at non-combatants, although, as has happened in every war since the dawn of time, sometimes they get non-combatants accidentally. Deliberately trying to kill non-combatants on the one hand, and aiming at a valid target, but killing a few innocent bystanders on the other, are worlds apart morally. There is no comparison at all.

Yes, there is certainly no comparison between the modern lethality which the Israelis can deploy and the homemade bombs of the Palestinians. The Israelis can kill on a scale and with a promptitude of which terrorist can only dream. Some of the members of Hamas, who happen to be Palestinians, employ those tactics. Not all of the Palestinains do these things, but you want to play stupid word games about that topice because your base intent is to paint all Palestinians as terrorists or potential terrorists, and all Israelis as innocent victims. You're peddling pro-Israeli propaganda, shamelessly, and with a snotty and viscious disregard for the slaughter the Israelis have inflicted in Gaza and the West Bank and the Lebanon. Now trot out your moral indignation about the school bus again, and pretend that the Israelis do not willfully kill civilians--at least with callous disregard if not with actual intimidative intent--and peddle your mealy-mouthed hypocricy once more. Nothing can be plainer than that you value Israeli lives over the lives of Palestinians and Lebanese.

Attacking a clearly marked red cross ambulance, that's an act of self-defense? Attacking water and sewage treatment plants, that's an act of self-defense? Attacking electric transmission stations and other appurtances of the power grid, that's an act of self-defense? The Israelis beaver away at digging their own grave, and you applaud them with a mindless mantra of "self-defense."

Setanta wrote:

Attacking a clearly marked red cross ambulance, that's an act of self-defense? Attacking water and sewage treatment plants, that's an act of self-defense? Attacking electric transmission stations and other appurtances of the power grid, that's an act of self-defense? The Israelis beaver away at digging their own grave, and you applaud them with a mindless mantra of "self-defense."

Please provide evidence that the Israelis attacked a Red Cross ambulance DELIBERATELY.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Attacking a clearly marked red cross ambulance, that's an act of self-defense? Attacking water and sewage treatment plants, that's an act of self-defense? Attacking electric transmission stations and other appurtances of the power grid, that's an act of self-defense? The Israelis beaver away at digging their own grave, and you applaud them with a mindless mantra of "self-defense."

Please provide evidence that the Israelis attacked a Red Cross ambulance DELIBERATELY.

That is another unanswerable question, for it supposes that we can prove the intention of the pilot and his commanders, and those will ALWAYS claim it was accidental. The evidence can only be circumstantial, such as on the one hand the Israeli airforce being one of the most modern and well trained in the world and boasting about its surgical precision strikes with camera guided munitions and on the other hand an ambulance being a very recognisable target.

The there was the bombing of a clearly marked UN observation post (I repeat myself here), the location of which was known to the Israeli army for a long time, a bombing which took place after the UN had asked 10 times for the cessation of the shelling of the post by the Israelis. Israels reaction: Sorry!

You may also remember the bombing of a UN compound full of refugees some time ago, which took place after the UN had informed the Israelis of the presence of refugees in the compound. That one "accident" made more victims than the thousands of Hezbollah rockets on Israel during this most recent Israeli invasion of their neighbouring country.

A bit longer ago there was the assassination of a Palestinian man in Oslo by the Israeli secret service. Basically the murder of a national of another democratic country on the orders of the state of Israel, which in itself goes against all international law and it also happened to be the wrong guy. Sorry.

A bit longer ago there was the assassination of a Palestinian man in Oslo by the Israeli secret service. Basically the murder of a national of another democratic country on the orders of the state of Israel, which in itself goes against all international law and it also happened to be the wrong guy. Sorry.

You are in the absurd position of comparing this with strikes on military targets that killed bystanders, something that has happened in every war since the dawn of time.

Paasky, we have to be fair to Brandon, just as we do for all handi-capped people--he has a point. It is entirely possible that, in broad daylight, an Israeli pilot mistook the ambulance for a busload of Palestinian suicide bombers on their way to work, cleverly disguised as school children.