Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs On Children

old europe wrote:

I thought you were the one who is constantly reminding others of the guidelines of a civil debate. Now you kind of refuse to play by your own rules.

You stated that "The Palestinians firebomb school buses (as, for instance, at Kafr Darom), blow up marketplaces, bomb discotheques, murder olympic teams, etc.", clearly implying that all Palestinians are doing that.

It's up to you to provide evidence for your allegation, not up to me to provide evidence to the contrary. After all, I didn't make the initial claim, right? So I challenge you to find one link, and only one link, that confirms your allegation.

Your absurd claim that I meant it to refer to "all" Palestinians is nothing more than a debating tactic designed to create a distraction from the topic. Since you ask me to produce a citation for what you surely must know to be the truth (another attempt to create a distraction from addressing the topic), I will do so:

Target: Israeli Children

Don't you ever get tired of working so hard to avoid simply debating on topic? It's hardly a characteristic of people in the right.

Now, I expect you to finally debate the actual topic with no claims that I intended to say that I'm posting from Mars, or any other irrelevancy.

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najmelliw wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
The Palestinians firebomb school buses (as, for instance, at Kafr Darom), blow up marketplaces, bomb discotheques, murder olympic teams, etc. Case closed.

Yeah, you know, you convinced me, Brandon. You're right of course. There's not a single Israelite in Israel whom isn't like a kazillion times a better person then all the Palestinians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Arabs, Syrians and other Middle eastern rifraff, conveniently grouped under the term slammite, combined. So let's just throw some atomic bombs on those countries. Just wipe em all out, then there are no more terrorists! Yay! And if the international community protests, let's drop some bombs on them as well... Until everyone sees the glorious truth, that the cause of the USA and Israel is just, because they are the USA and Israel!

You're actually putting words in my mouth that I never spoke, ideas I never advocated anywhere, and then pointing out that they're wrong? That's how you're trying to support your ideas? Ha ha ha. You lose.

Everything I said in the above post is the absolute truth. If you disagree that people claiming to represent the Palestinians have done these terrible things, then just present your evidence.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Your absurd claim that I meant it to refer to "all" Palestinians is nothing more than a debating tactic designed to create a distraction from the topic.

Well, you didn't explain what you meant in your initial post. Come to think about it, you didn't even explain it now. So let me go back to your earlier post and ask you what you meant when you said

Brandon9000 wrote:

The Palestinians firebomb school buses (as, for instance, at Kafr Darom), blow up marketplaces, bomb discotheques, murder olympic teams, etc. Case closed.

By saying "The Palestinians," did you mean:

- all Palestinians
- some Palestinians representing all the other Palestinians
- some Palestinians not representing all the other Palestinians
- none of the above, let me clarify this....

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old europe wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Your absurd claim that I meant it to refer to "all" Palestinians is nothing more than a debating tactic designed to create a distraction from the topic.

Well, you didn't explain what you meant in your initial post. Come to think about it, you didn't even explain it now. So let me go back to your earlier post and ask you what you meant when you said

Brandon9000 wrote:
The Palestinians firebomb school buses (as, for instance, at Kafr Darom), blow up marketplaces, bomb discotheques, murder olympic teams, etc. Case closed.

By saying "The Palestinians," did you mean:

- all Palestinians
- some Palestinians representing all the other Palestinians
- some Palestinians not representing all the other Palestinians
- none of the above, let me clarify this....

As should be obvious to anyone, I meant some Palestinians who claim to represent the other Palestinians. Now how hard are you going to work to avoid debating the actual subject? Your absolute unwillingness to do anything but try to distract me is really despicable.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

As should be obvious to anyone, I meant some Palestinians who claim to represent the other Palestinians.

Your inflammatory rhetoric left aside, I think that coming across quite clearly and conveying your points without misunderstanding should be at the core of any civil debate.

Anyways. You say you meant "some Palestinians who claim to represent the other Palestinians". Do you think their claim is justified?

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We have been fed (or the bear-leaders have attempted to feed the public) pablum about democracy in the middle east. The Palestinians voted for Hamas in a clear and decisive majority. From the point of view of those who claim to be enamored of democracy, that means that Hamas has the necessary credentials to speak for the Palestinians.

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That's quite true, Set. From that point of view, you would have to argue that the attacks performed by Hamas now have "official public support", much as the American invasion of Iraq had.

In the light of this point of view, wouldn't we have to stop calling attacks performed by Hamas "terrorist attacks" and start calling them something like "operations", and wouldn't the civilians murdered be called "collateral damage"?

Just asking, ya know...

(Disclaimer: I'm very unhappy that the Palestinians voted for Hamas instead of Fatah.)

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old europe wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
As should be obvious to anyone, I meant some Palestinians who claim to represent the other Palestinians.

Your inflammatory rhetoric left aside, I think that coming across quite clearly and conveying your points without misunderstanding should be at the core of any civil debate.

Anyways. You say you meant "some Palestinians who claim to represent the other Palestinians". Do you think their claim is justified?

My point, and the only point I'm willing to debate, is that the past few decades have seen atrocity after atrocity, directed against the weak and innocent committed by Palestinians against Israel, and more generally against Jews worldwide. About the only thing they haven't done yet, and I say this without actually checking, is poison candy in an orphanage. So, any claim that Israel's behavior towards non-combatants is "bad" represents a colossal double standard.

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old europe wrote:

That's quite true, Set. From that point of view, you would have to argue that the attacks performed by Hamas now have "official public support", much as the American invasion of Iraq had.

In the light of this point of view, wouldn't we have to stop calling attacks performed by Hamas "terrorist attacks" and start calling them something like "operations", and wouldn't the civilians murdered be called "collateral damage"?

Just asking, ya know...

(Disclaimer: I'm very unhappy that the Palestinians voted for Hamas instead of Fatah.)

You really are an absolute fool. Give me a citation for any case in which Israelis or Americans during the past 25 years, have deliberately attacked non-combatants, as opposed to aiming at valid military targets and getting non-combatants by accident. And don't give me a case of someone violating orders. Are you so far gone that you don't see a difference between firebombing a school bus, and bombing a munitions factory but killing a few bystanders?

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Now slow down, Brandon. That post wasn't directed at you, and calling me an "absolute fool" is not only against the TOS, but also shows that you give a damn about "rules of civil debate", contrary to what you are constantly claiming.

We can go back to a civil discussion anytime you want, but it's really up to you.

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I be interested to know if Brandon can tell us of the last occasion upon which the Israelis bombed a munitions factory--where was that Brandon, Gaza, the West Bank?

Israel has F16s with which to drop cluster bombs on the Shi'ite neighborhood of south Beirut on the off chance that they'll hit a Hezbollah fighter, and to Hell with the civilians who get in the way. They have helicopter gunships with which to launch missles at an apartment building in Gaza to take out a member of Hamas (they missed--that is, they missed the Hamas member, but they did manage to take out seven women and children).

Hamas and the Palestinians don't have the appurtenances of a 21st century military establishment, so they used suicide bombers on buses (public transport buses, not school buses--are you really such a fool as to believe Israelis would allow a Palestinian to board one of their school buses?). That is deplorable. That Isreal has modern military hardware as a result of having a successful, heavily subsidized parliamentary state does not make the slaughter they inflict any less deplorable.

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old europe wrote:

Now slow down, Brandon. That post wasn't directed at you, and calling me an "absolute fool" is not only against the TOS, but also shows that you give a damn about "rules of civil debate", contrary to what you are constantly claiming.

We can go back to a civil discussion anytime you want, but it's really up to you.

Again, you refuse to address my position. Since I cannot induce, you no matter how many times I try, to reply to my actual assertion, we're done, and I win by default.

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Setanta wrote:

I be interested to know if Brandon can tell us of the last occasion upon which the Israelis bombed a munitions factory--where was that Brandon, Gaza, the West Bank?

Israel has F16s with which to drop cluster bombs on the Shi'ite neighborhood of south Beirut on the off chance that they'll hit a Hezbollah fighter, and to Hell with the civilians who get in the way. They have helicopter gunships with which to launch missles at an apartment building in Gaza to take out a member of Hamas (they missed--that is, they missed the Hamas member, but they did manage to take out seven women and children).

Hamas and the Palestinians don't have the appurtenances of a 21st century military establishment, so they used suicide bombers on buses (public transport buses, not school buses--are you really such a fool as to believe Israelis would allow a Palestinian to board one of their school buses?). That is deplorable. That Isreal has modern military hardware as a result of having a successful, heavily subsidized parliamentary state does not make the slaughter they inflict any less deplorable.

Then explain the school bus bombing incident which I posted a link to on the previous page, and reproduce here for your convenience:

Palestinians Bomb Israeli School Bus

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Setanta wrote:

I be interested to know if Brandon can tell us of the last occasion upon which the Israelis bombed a munitions factory--where was that Brandon, Gaza, the West Bank?....

It's not relevant, since I only meant "valid target," but a minute of research yielded:

Israel Bombs Gaza Weapons Factory

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Brandon, you claimed repeatedly that "the right" refrains from attacking posters on an ad hominem level, and that doing so means that the attacker automatically looses.

Well, here's your post:

Brandon9000 wrote:

You really are an absolute fool.

It seems that you are unable to lead a civil debate. By your own rules, this means but one thing:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Ha ha ha. You lose.

Have a nice day.

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If it's not relevant (and it is very relevant), then why did you go to the trouble to go find a link? You have an Israeli allegation that it was a place used to manufacture and store arms. That's a far cry from a munitions factory.

You have not addressed the central issue of my post. Do you, or do you not deplore cluster bombs in civilian neighborhoods? Do you or do you not deplore missle attacks on apartment buildings?

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:
I be interested to know if Brandon can tell us of the last occasion upon which the Israelis bombed a munitions factory--where was that Brandon, Gaza, the West Bank?

Israel has F16s with which to drop cluster bombs on the Shi'ite neighborhood of south Beirut on the off chance that they'll hit a Hezbollah fighter, and to Hell with the civilians who get in the way. They have helicopter gunships with which to launch missles at an apartment building in Gaza to take out a member of Hamas (they missed--that is, they missed the Hamas member, but they did manage to take out seven women and children).

Hamas and the Palestinians don't have the appurtenances of a 21st century military establishment, so they used suicide bombers on buses (public transport buses, not school buses--are you really such a fool as to believe Israelis would allow a Palestinian to board one of their school buses?). That is deplorable. That Isreal has modern military hardware as a result of having a successful, heavily subsidized parliamentary state does not make the slaughter they inflict any less deplorable.

Then explain the school bus bombing incident which I posted a link to on the previous page, and reproduce here for your convenience:

Palestinians Bomb Israeli School Bus

And?

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And what Brandon? You have not yet addressed the Israeli attacks on known civilian targets. Do you or do you not deplore such attacks? I've already stated that i deplore Palestinian bombings. Your idiotic attempt to take the moral high ground on behalf of the Israeli falls flat on its face in view of the nature of attacks which Israelis commonly make.

Do you or do you not deplore Israeli attacks on civilian neighborhoods?

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old europe wrote:

Brandon, you claimed repeatedly that "the right" refrains from attacking posters on an ad hominem level, and that doing so means that the attacker automatically looses.

Well, here's your post:

Brandon9000 wrote:
You really are an absolute fool.

It seems that you are unable to lead a civil debate. By your own rules, this means but one thing:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Ha ha ha. You lose.

Have a nice day.

I have never one single time claimed that the right refrains from ad hominem attacks. I have only claimed that the right usually refrains from posts which consist solely of ad hominem attacks without an accompanying argument.

It is clear that you will never address my contention that anything negative about Israeli treatment of non-combatants absolutely pales in comparison to the many years of Palestinian atrocities. You are only capable of posting distractions. By the standard rules of debate, since you will not post anything relevant about my position, I win.

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Yeah, Brandon is hilarious, in a sick sort of way--he's obsessed with "winning." He's like a schoolchild in that respect. One thing that doesn't obsess him, though, is the death of people who happen to be Palestinian or Lebanese. He only worries about Isrealis who get killed.

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Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs On Children

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