Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs On Children

I thought you were going to leave me to my "shame," McG. So much for your melodrama.

You are the one indulging in strawmen. I don't sympathize with terrorists, i sympathize with the innocent victims of Israel's state terrorism.

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najmelliw wrote:

That's sick, oralloy. And it's incredibly naive to think so.

I suggest that it is sick to not denounce anti-Semitism.

What is naive about denouncing anti-Semitism?

najmelliw wrote:

I think both sides commit atrocities. So what does that make me?

Depends on the details.

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Paaskynen wrote:

Being against the actions of the state of Israel does not equal being anti-Jewish, just as being opposed to the politics of the Bush administration does not make one anti-American.

That may be so for some people. But there are anti-Semites who vent their anti-Semitism by making outrageous accusations against Israel, and then try to pretend that they are not anti-Semitic because "they criticized Israel instead of criticizing Jews".

Such attempts at covert racism should be denounced.

Paaskynen wrote:

The cry of "anti-semitism" as soon as anybody criticises anything remotely related to Israel, devalues the term into a powerless epithet, an ad hominem attack that people use in order to avoid arguing the case at hand.

Who cries anti-Semitism in the face of any criticism of Israel?

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ENDYMION wrote:

I don't believe you have the foggiest idea what you're talking about, Oralloy

Then you are incorrect.

ENDYMION wrote:

the Palestinian and Lebanese victims of US 'fed' Israeli aggression.

Self-defense is not aggression.

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old europe wrote:

That's quite true, Set. From that point of view, you would have to argue that the attacks performed by Hamas now have "official public support", much as the American invasion of Iraq had.

In the light of this point of view, wouldn't we have to stop calling attacks performed by Hamas "terrorist attacks" and start calling them something like "operations", and wouldn't the civilians murdered be called "collateral damage"?

Just asking, ya know...

(Disclaimer: I'm very unhappy that the Palestinians voted for Hamas instead of Fatah.)

Collateral damage is not a valid claim for civilians that were deliberately targeted.

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ENDYMION wrote:

Red Cross ambulances destroyed in Israeli air strike on rescue mission The Guardian, London Tuesday, 25 July 2006

Never happened.

The big hole in the middle of the roof of the ambulance is where some equipment used to be before the ambulance was retired.

All the little holes in the roof are from a phenomenon known as rust.

The Red Cross has a full resolution photo of the retired ambulance here, where you can see the rust spots better, and see other ambulances across the street that show what used to go where the big hole is.

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/photos-lebanon-020806_res/$File/IMG_1127.zip

(This picture comes in a zip file that is slightly bigger than 4 megabytes.)

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Re: Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs On Children

stevewonder wrote:

Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs On Children...

YOu mean, "palestinian" slammite "children", right??

I mean, what the hell difference does it make, they're just being bred as suicide bombers anyhow:

http://www.pmw.org.il/

I mean, I wish I were making this **** up; watch the interview with the two eleven-year-olds:

http://www.pmw.org.il/images/PMWplay1.jpg

"Palestinians" basically need to be put somewhere where they cannot harm anybody other than themselves, for about the next 5000 years. Soime Pacific island possibly, one of the Liakhov or Novo-Sibirsk islands, or somewhere up on the North shore of Siberia....

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Setanta wrote:

You are the one indulging in strawmen. I don't sympathize with terrorists, i sympathize with the innocent victims of Israel's state terrorism.

If Israel were fighting wars by the same rules the hezbullies use, there would be a million casualties in Lebanon.

All I can say is, if I were running Israel, you and other losers like you would really have something to cry over.

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oralloy wrote:

Paaskynen wrote:
Being against the actions of the state of Israel does not equal being anti-Jewish, just as being opposed to the politics of the Bush administration does not make one anti-American.

That may be so for some people. But there are anti-Semites who vent their anti-Semitism by making outrageous accusations against Israel, and then try to pretend that they are not anti-Semitic because "they criticized Israel instead of criticizing Jews".

Such attempts at covert racism should be denounced.

And I guess you are the one to decide what constitutes anti-semitism and what doesn't?
If someone incorrectly claims that Israel has used weapons of mass destruction against Lebanon. Then that person is simply wrong, mistaken, or misinformed (and you can prove that by providing evidence to the contrary). It does not make one an anti-semite and calling it that turns the argument into namecalling, which does nothing to prove your point (but quite the contrary, it makes your position weaker, because you appear to have no evidence to back up your position).

oralloy wrote:

Paaskynen wrote:
The cry of "anti-semitism" as soon as anybody criticises anything remotely related to Israel, devalues the term into a powerless epithet, an ad hominem attack that people use in order to avoid arguing the case at hand.

Who cries anti-Semitism in the face of any criticism of Israel?

Your response here is a retorical question, as you very well know. (What you mean to say is that you do not cry anti-semitism in the face of criticism of Israel. Your reaction thus shows that you feel addressed by the statement and take it personally.) My warning is a general statement to warn against over-use of labels like anti-semite. The way you have used it (see above) is incorrect and detrimental to the meaning and connotation of the term.

For example, the use of the word "fascist" as a term of abuse by left wing activists against anything remotely right wing has robbed the word of its true meaning and nobody really knows anymore what true fascism was like.

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ENDYMION wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Keep dancing, Brandon. Do you or do you not deplore attacks by Israelis against civilian targets?

Please give me an example of a case during the past quarter century in which Israeli soldiers deliberately attacked non-combatants as the primary intended targets, and I shall certainly answer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1828142,00.html
http://www.zeitenschrift.net/news/sne-3806-redcross.ihtml

One could also give a moment by moment description of the agony of some poor victim of allied attacks on a Nazi munitions plant in WW2. It arouses sympathy, but proves nothing. We were talking about attacking civilians as the primary, intended target. Tell me the target intended by the Israelis in the above case, and document your answer. Accidentally striking civilians in wars is as old as war. The Palestinians DELIBERATELY target non-combatants, even school children.

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Setanta wrote:

Brandon, i'm willing to stipulate that Palestinians bomb school buses, since you've gotten your panties in a twist about it....

An indication, I'm afraid, of the level of your concern about Israeli victims. We were talking about a deliberate attack on school children here. Hardly an eccentricity of mine that I consider it important.

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War breeds terror. It also causes severe trauma to both combatants and civilians - any country that promotes war for Imperialistic or monetary gains or both, shows a blatant disregard for world peace and individual human rights.

Would you agree with that, B?

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ENDYMION wrote:

War breeds terror. It also causes severe trauma to both combatants and civilians - any country that promotes war for Imperialistic or monetary gains or both, shows a blatant disregard for world peace and individual human rights.....

And Israel, by attempting to defend itself against an out of the blue attack motivated by pure, stupid hatred and ideology, and ordered and orchestrated by Maxmoud Ahmadi-najad who is certifiably insane, is guilty of such conduct exactly how?

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Brandon9000 wrote:

najmelliw wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
The Palestinians firebomb school buses (as, for instance, at Kafr Darom), blow up marketplaces, bomb discotheques, murder olympic teams, etc. Case closed.

Yeah, you know, you convinced me, Brandon. You're right of course. There's not a single Israelite in Israel whom isn't like a kazillion times a better person then all the Palestinians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Arabs, Syrians and other Middle eastern rifraff, conveniently grouped under the term slammite, combined. So let's just throw some atomic bombs on those countries. Just wipe em all out, then there are no more terrorists! Yay! And if the international community protests, let's drop some bombs on them as well... Until everyone sees the glorious truth, that the cause of the USA and Israel is just, because they are the USA and Israel!

You're actually putting words in my mouth that I never spoke, ideas I never advocated anywhere, and then pointing out that they're wrong? That's how you're trying to support your ideas? Ha ha ha. You lose.

Everything I said in the above post is the absolute truth. If you disagree that people claiming to represent the Palestinians have done these terrible things, then just present your evidence.

Ooh.. Look at that. Here you state in the original post : The Palestinians. And now, you use the following term: 'people claiming to represent the Palestinians' There's a huge difference, but you probably refuse to see it like that.

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najmelliw wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
najmelliw wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
The Palestinians firebomb school buses (as, for instance, at Kafr Darom), blow up marketplaces, bomb discotheques, murder olympic teams, etc. Case closed.

Yeah, you know, you convinced me, Brandon. You're right of course. There's not a single Israelite in Israel whom isn't like a kazillion times a better person then all the Palestinians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Arabs, Syrians and other Middle eastern rifraff, conveniently grouped under the term slammite, combined. So let's just throw some atomic bombs on those countries. Just wipe em all out, then there are no more terrorists! Yay! And if the international community protests, let's drop some bombs on them as well... Until everyone sees the glorious truth, that the cause of the USA and Israel is just, because they are the USA and Israel!

You're actually putting words in my mouth that I never spoke, ideas I never advocated anywhere, and then pointing out that they're wrong? That's how you're trying to support your ideas? Ha ha ha. You lose.

Everything I said in the above post is the absolute truth. If you disagree that people claiming to represent the Palestinians have done these terrible things, then just present your evidence.

Ooh.. Look at that. Here you state in the original post : The Palestinians. And now, you use the following term: 'people claiming to represent the Palestinians' There's a huge difference, but you probably refuse to see it like that.

Done attributing statements to me that I never made? Good. When Palestinians, claiming to represent the other Palestinians murder a busload of school children, or detonate a bomb in a public marketplace, I believe I can state, "The Palestinians bombed......"

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For anybody who might have missed it, the Palestinian Media Watch website pretty much tells the story about "Palestinians"

http://pmw.org.il/

At least, it tells me as much as I need to know about them. Apparently, ALL palestinian children are being indoctrinated to serve as suicide bombers at this point. The interview with the two eleven year old girls is instructive:

http://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_Walla_7.asx

Quote:

Interviewer: You described Shahada as something beautiful. Do you think it is beautiful?

Walla: Shahada is a very beautiful thing. Everyone yearns for Shahada. What could be better than going to paradise?

Interviewer: What is better, peace and full rights for the Palestinian people or Shahada?

Walla: Shahada. I will achieve my rights after becoming a shahid. We won't stay children forever.

Interviewer: Ok, Yussra, would you agree with that?

Yussra: Of course. It is a good [sweet] thing. We don't want this world, we want the Afterlife. We benefit not from this life but from the Afterlife. All Palestinians, not like other youth, are hot tempered, they choose Shahada, since they are Palestinian.

Interviewer: Do you actually love death?

Yussra: Death is not Shahada.

Interviewer: No, I mean the absence after death, the physical absence, do you love death?

Yussra: No child loves death. The children of Palestine adopted the concept that this is Shahada. They believe that Shahada is very good. Every Palestinian child, say someone aged 12, says, O Lord, I would like to become a shahid.
[PA TV June 2002]

You be the judge.

In my estimation, no rational person could ask the Israelis to accept these lunatics as neighbors, and there is basically one halfway rational and humane solution to the problem and only one, i.e. the "palestinians" have to be put somewhere, very far from Israel, and that place has to be sufficiently remote and isolated that they cannot harm anybody other than themselves and/or the indigenous wildlife, and they have to be kept there at the very least until all of them presently alive have grown old and died out, and possibly forever.

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For the benefit of our handful of resident slammite apologists, this is what a hog in its natural state (as opposed to domestic hogs and pigs and what not) looks like:

http://k41.pbase.com/u26/dbehrens/upload/43390586.EveningWildBoar.jpg

We have these in this country and such live in the future world as well. When a young girl dies by blowing herself up in such a way as to murder other people, she does not go to slammite paradise and immediately receive 72 virgin boys with whom to satiate her lusts for eternity; she becomes one of this creature's 72 virgins, to satiate HIS lusts for eternity.

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oralloy wrote:

ENDYMION wrote:
Red Cross ambulances destroyed in Israeli air strike on rescue mission The Guardian, London Tuesday, 25 July 2006

Never happened.

The big hole in the middle of the roof of the ambulance is where some equipment used to be before the ambulance was retired.

All the little holes in the roof are from a phenomenon known as rust.

The Red Cross has a full resolution photo of the retired ambulance here, where you can see the rust spots better, and see other ambulances across the street that show what used to go where the big hole is.

http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/photos-lebanon-020806_res/$File/IMG_1127.zip

(This picture comes in a zip file that is slightly bigger than 4 megabytes.)

Sorry, but this high resolution picture disproves your claim, Mr Oralloy. It clearly shows evidence of the impact of shrapnel and of something that buckled the roof and knocked the ventilation device into the van, check the holes, the sides are bent inwards. You can also see that the antenna and the blue rotating light have be knocked out by whatever it was that hit the vehicle
Furthermore, I point out that rust forms when iron reacts with oxygen, reaction with oxygen is known as burning, burning occurs especially at high temperatures like those caused by an explosion (Have you never seen a burnt vehicle before?)
However, I do not believe this ambulance was hit by a rocket. If it was, the vehicle would have been much more severely damaged. The damage is much more consistent with something exploding above and slightly behind the van.

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Paaskynen wrote:

Furthermore, I point out that rust forms when iron reacts with oxygen, reaction with oxygen is known as burning, burning occurs especially at high temperatures like those caused by an explosion (Have you never seen a burnt vehicle before?)

...visit the science forum much?

Rust is oxidation of metal, not burning and does not require any temperature variances outside the norm. I thought you were joking when I first read this.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Setanta wrote:
Brandon, i'm willing to stipulate that Palestinians bomb school buses, since you've gotten your panties in a twist about it....

An indication, I'm afraid, of the level of your concern about Israeli victims. We were talking about a deliberate attack on school children here. Hardly an eccentricity of mine that I consider it important.

No, the eccentricity arises in that you don't display the same horror for the deaths of Palestinian and Lebanese children. McG has claimed that i have erected a strawman, but both you and McG shout "terrorists" and when someone deplores the deaths of Palestinians or Lebanese, you claim that they sympathize with terrorists--it seems obvious, therefore, that both of you consider Palestinians or Lebanese to be terrorists by defintion--hence my claim that you both subscribe to the "islamo-fascist" demonization of any "enemy" of Israel. People who are the victims of the state terrorism of Israel are, as you and he claim, simply the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of Hamas or Hezbollah. If that is so, your schoolbus full of children are just the regrettable victims of the policies and actions of the militarist government of Israel.

You constantly want to engage in special pleading for the Israelis, and then condemn anyone who deplores Palestinians or Lebanese as sympathetic to "terrorists." It is impossible to escape the conclusion that you consider all Palestinians and Lebanese to be terrorist by defintion--even the children killed by Isreali cluster bombs.

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Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs On Children

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