Is God cruel?

Last time I asked God about the truth of this matter He told me I had to figure it out on my own.

It's sort of like a game show isn't it?

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jason wrote:

Yeah, if it satisfies your dementia

I don't have dementia. (that I know of Very Happy

)

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neologist wrote:

Funny you should talk about brain power, Jason.

A person who doesn't understand a simple, coherent argument is not funny to me. In fact, I take it quite seriously.

neologist wrote:

But let me try once more:

You equate suffering with punishment. I don't think you can do that in this case. It is true the human race has suffered until this day as a result of the Edenic rebellion. (Mind you, I'm referring to the Bible's account.) But the punishment meted out to Adam and Eve was their loss of the prospect of living forever. We have not lost that prospect. That is the meaning of the prophecy of Genesis 3rd chapter and is the central theme of the entire Bible.

You are losing yourself in the middle of your own pile of nonsense, neo. What the hell does this have to do with God being just and righteousconsidering the fact that He's all powerful?

neologist wrote:

Would the hope of everlasting life in a world without evil be a fair trade for a few years of suffering?

Snap out of it, neo!!! Can you see that you're providing irrelevant statements of an illogical and silly story? Why can't you explain how God is just opposed to unjust when it comes to Adam and Eve?

neologist wrote:

Makes sense to me.

Of course it does

neologist wrote:

So, yeah, we are suffering. But punishment depends on our attitude.

What the hell does that mean?

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Cyracuz wrote:

jason wrote:
Yeah, if it satisfies your dementia

I don't have dementia. (that I know of )

A lot of sick people don't know about their insanity until they are either put in an institution or under strict medicationor both. Twisted Evil

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Charming guy that Jason... Mr. Green

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Jason; adapting Frank's style of rhetoric simply puts you in the same intellectual category as Frank. I'm sure you and Frank are both good guys. And you have every right to not believe the bible. All I am trying to do is report to you what the bible does, in fact, say.

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neologist wrote:

Jason; adapting Frank's style of rhetoric simply puts you in the same intellectual category as Frank.

You overwhelm me, neo. This is the most beautiful thing you've ever said to me thus far.

neologist wrote:

I'm sure you and Frank are both good guys.

Have you found the absolute truth to this statementor do you BELIEVE this to be so?

neologist wrote:

And you have every right to not believe the bible.

Are you throwing in the towel, neo? Why can't you just admit to yourself that Jehovah is a flawed god with emotional issuesyou know what it takes to admit to oneself that Jehovah is a punk, neo? It takes balls

neologist wrote:

All I am trying to do is report to you what the bible does, in fact, say.

Neo, my attempt here is to inform you what The Bible actually says and meansopposed to what you think it means.

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Jason Proudmoore wrote:

neologist wrote:
Jason; adapting Frank's style of rhetoric simply puts you in the same intellectual category as Frank.

You overwhelm me, neo. This is the most beautiful thing you've ever said to me thus far.

Snicker.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

neologist wrote:

I'm sure you and Frank are both good guys.

Have you found the absolute truth to this statementor do you BELIEVE this to be so?

Well, ya got me there. I just gave you my mercy stroke.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

neologist wrote:

And you have every right to not believe the bible.

Are you throwing in the towel, neo? Why can't you just admit to yourself that Jehovah is a flawed god with emotional issuesyou know what it takes to admit to oneself that Jehovah is a punk, neo? It takes balls

Simply stating your disagreement with my propositions and restating them as negative does not constitute proof.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

neologist wrote:

All I am trying to do is report to you what the bible does, in fact, say.

Neo, my attempt here is to inform you what The Bible actually says and meansopposed to what you think it means.

You still have not discerned the difference between suffering and punishment. And a little more on this:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

You are losing yourself in the middle of your own pile of nonsense, neo. What the hell does this have to do with God being just and righteousconsidering the fact that He's all powerful?

God's power was never questioned in the Genesis account, was it? Do you wish to revile him for not setting things straight right there? Well, there's more to it; and if you had paid attention, you would know that.

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Jason.

What you are doing, and what Frank is also doing a lot of the time, is stating the obvious.

Sure there are incoherencies according to modern logic. Still it is possible to follow the trail of thought with an open mind, just to see where it ends.

Quote:

Are you throwing in the towel, neo? Why can't you just admit to yourself that Jehovah is a flawed god with emotional issuesyou know what it takes to admit to oneself that Jehovah is a punk, neo? It takes balls

Why can't you admit to youself that just maybe there is truth in the tale of Jehovah? As both you and Frank constantly remind us, we cannot know anything. So how can you KNOW that there is no god? You know what it takes to admit to oneself that you are a punk? It takes balls.

And if you try to counter with the claim that "they are stating it as fact, I am just fighting the good fight" I will toss you right into the category I have for pesky christian missionaries.

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I can understand why many find organized religion repulsive.

I can understand why a cursory reading of the Bible's Hebrew Scriptures may lead to the same opinion of Jehovah. In fact, most of the good christians on this board have declined to dip their oars into this stream because they don't understand the OT themselves.

All I am trying to do is show how the God of the OT is the same God as the one Jesus brought us to in the NT.

See sig.

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Lash wrote:

Hi, neo.

I'd like to hear your take on a couple of things that have always bothered me.

You know the gay thing-- If God made us all, why did he make gay people and then, condemn them... but also why did he "harden Pharoah's heart", in order to ensure the first born sons of Egypt died? Sort of unnecessary roughness, wouldn't you say?

Finally the gay thing posted here

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neologist wrote:

Simply stating your disagreement with my propositions and restating them as negative does not constitute proof.

Neo, this is why I think that every time you and I engage in a rational argument seems like you're always under the influence of some soft of very powerful narcotic

So, according to you, logical evidence found within the context of words and definitions doesn't constitute as proof? What the hell, neo!!!?

neologist wrote:

God's power was never questioned in the Genesis account, was it?

Are you sick in the head, neo? Why do you mean by this? What are you really trying to say? God's power has ALWAYS been in question even before the Bible was writtenread about Plato and Greek philosophy and stop talking sh!t, neo.

neologist wrote:

Do you wish to revile him for not setting things straight right there?

What!!!?

neologist wrote:

Well, there's more to it; and if you had paid attention, you would know that.

More to what? Pay attention to what, neo?

Does this statement, according to you, amount to proof?

Give me a break, neo!

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Jason; All I have been trying to do is relate the Bible's viewpoint. Last time I looked, Plato and the Greek philosophers were not considered Bible scholars. I would welcome a comparison between Greek philosophy and the Bible if that is what you want.

And you really haven't been paying attention to the direction of my posts. The challenge made by Satan implied that humans would be better off setting their own standards and that, since God lied, he was not fit to exercise sovereignty over intelligent creation. God certainly could have zapped the whole nest and started over if power had been the contention.

You are right, however, that not everything I say is offered as proof. Then again, your degradation of language proves only your rhetorical insufficiency.

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Cyracuz wrote:

Jason.

What you are doing, and what Frank is also doing a lot of the time, is stating the obvious.

What's your point?

Cyracuz wrote:

Sure there are incoherencies according to modern logic.

Your point?

Cyracuz wrote:

Still it is possible to follow the trail of thought with an open mind, just to see where it ends.

You mean to tell me to follow the trail of madness with an open mind, right?

Cyracuz wrote:

Why can't you admit to youself that just maybe there is truth in the tale of Jehovah?

Because THEN I will have to find the truth in The Iliad and The Odyssey, and many other mythological, well written stories as well

Cyracuz wrote:

As both you and Frank constantly remind us, we cannot know anything.

We cannot know everything, but we can separate what's fact and fiction based on experience, my boy.

Cyracuz wrote:

So how can you KNOW that there is no god?

I don't know if there are gods of Greek mythology, the Norse gods, the Mesopotamian gods, the gods of all the aborigines, the Egyptian gods, and all the gods that ever existedbut I am able to separate what's myth from historical fact.

Cyracuz wrote:

You know what it takes to admit to oneself that you are a punk? It takes balls.

I'm quite aware of thatand it seems that you know it as well.

Cyracuz wrote:

And if you try to counter with the claim that "they are stating it as fact, I am just fighting the good fight"

Fighting a good fight? Whatever makes you happy, pappy.

Cyracuz wrote:

I will toss you right into the category I have for pesky christian missionaries.

Yeahgo do that.

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neologist wrote:

Jason; All I have been trying to do is relate the Bible's viewpoint.

This is where you and many Christians fail when it comes to interpreting the Bible, or any other piece of literature, correctly. You and they tend to change the meanings and ideas of every passage to fit your own twisted agendas. And when a guy like me comes into the picture and puts those arguments to the test, they fall flat on their asses.
Can you provide at least one proof of God not being unjust to Adam and Eve in the story?

neologist wrote:

Last time I looked, Plato and the Greek philosophers were not considered Bible scholars. I would welcome a comparison between Greek philosophy and the Bible if that is what you want.

Neo, educate yourself by reading some books, man. Philosophy existed before the Bible was even written--and while the Bible was being writtenand after the Bible was written therefore, there were many, many, many people who questioned the existence of Godand today you will find lots of philosophers who are influenced by Greek philosophy as well.

neologist wrote:

And you really haven't been paying attention to the direction of my posts.

Haven't I?

neologist wrote:

The challenge made by Satan implied that humans would be better off setting their own standards and that, since God lied, he was not fit to exercise sovereignty over intelligent creation.

But the whole argument revolves around the logical justification of God's every action and intention to those poor, innocent individuals (Adam and Eve.)

Based on the above statement, was the devil wrong?

neologist wrote:

God certainly could have zapped the whole nest and started over if power had been the contention.

And He didn't, right?

neologist wrote:

You are right, however, that not everything I say is offered as proof. Then again, your degradation of language proves only your rhetorical insufficiency.

Don't you understand what I have been explaining to you, neo? If you have understood and agreed with what I have been spoon feeding you for quite some time, neo, then my "rhetorical insufficiency" is not insufficient at all...if you understand the logic factor here.

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daaaaang.... Shocked

someone didn't take their happy pill this morning... Razz

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Yours seems like such a sweet spirit, Hephz....

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I don't know about that snood... I've been a pretty bitter person towards a lot of things for quite a while now... Which, by the way, I am sorry for being so bitter towards "christains". I think it's high time I apologize to you all. You guys have really taken the brunt of a lot of my frustrations actually for things none of you have ever done to me. I do appreciate that you guys will still talk to me though. I know I don't deserve it.

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hephzibah, you have been a welcome poster who has many ideas and a good way of expressing them. I, for one, don't think you really have anything to apologize for.

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Thanks Intrepid. Cool

It's a matter of conscience really. It's important to keep a clear conscience. It helps to keep us from getting ourselves in more trouble. At least that's what I've found. Razz

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