Is God cruel?

Neo, I fail to understand why you even started the thread. Were you asking for our opinion or merely preaching? If it was the latter then by all means stop reading at this point. . .

GE 4:2-8 God's arbitrary preference of Abel's offering to that of Cain's provokes Cain to commit the first biblically recorded murder and kill his brother Abel.
GE 34:13-29 The Israelites kill Hamor, his son, and all the men of their village, taking as plunder their wealth, cattle, wives and children. . . P

At best, the supposed "act of disobedience" was minor because they simply did not know there was anything wrong with disobedience. In any case, the set-up by the god is absurd...a temptation unnecessarily placed in front of people who had no experience with resisting temptation...a talented tempter urging them not to resist, but to succumb to the temptation...and purposeful withholding of knowledge necessary to see that there was anything wrong with not resisting. . .
Neo...what were you thinking?????

I was thinking that if there were no tree in the story, how would Adam and Eve and their descendants have known it was wrong to steal and murder, etc?

Where did war and crime and sickness and death originate?
When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad they rebelled against God's sovereignty and plunged the entire human race into degradation. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. . ." (Romans 5:12)

Frank Apisa wrote:

At best, the supposed "act of disobedience" was minor because they simply did not know there was anything wrong with disobedience. In any case, the set-up by the god is absurd...a temptation unnecessarily placed in front of people who had no experience with resisting temptation...a talented tempter urging them not to resist, but to succumb to the temptation...and purposeful withholding of knowledge necessary to see that there was anything wrong with not resisting. . .
Neo...what were you thinking?????

I was thinking that if there were no tree in the story, how would Adam and Eve and their descendants have known it was wrong to steal and murder, etc?

I bet if I live to be a hundred, I'll never again hear of the temptation in the Garden being described as a "sting operation".

Ya get all the good stuff on A2K.

god is love and The Dys is pure as the drivin' snow.

neologist wrote:

I was thinking that if there were no tree in the story, how would Adam and Eve and their descendants have known it was wrong to steal and murder, etc?

Isn't the whole point of the Adam/Eve story that God had intended for us to live in this utopian Garden of Eden free of "evil" such as theft and murder? As you said here:

neologist wrote:

Where did war and crime and sickness and death originate?
When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad they rebelled against God's sovereignty and plunged the entire human race into degradation. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. . ." (Romans 5:12)

If, as you say, crime and death originated from this tree of knowledge then removing the tree would then remove the crime and death, no?

I find the inconcistency of this thought annoying.

First someone says that god created everything.
Then they proceed to ask where evil comes from.

neologist wrote:

. . . how would Adam and Eve and their descendants have known it was wrong to steal and murder, etc?

How about having your god simply explain that all to them????

Does that seem a stretch to you?

Or are you simply searching for some way to make this sting operation seem reasonable, kind, and loving?

SN95 wrote:

neologist wrote:

I was thinking that if there were no tree in the story, how would Adam and Eve and their descendants have known it was wrong to steal and murder, etc?

Isn't the whole point of the Adam/Eve story that God had intended for us to live in this utopian Garden of Eden free of "evil" such as theft and murder? As you said here:

neologist wrote:

Where did war and crime and sickness and death originate?
When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad they rebelled against God's sovereignty and plunged the entire human race into degradation. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. . ." (Romans 5:12)

If, as you say, crime and death originated from this tree of knowledge then removing the tree would then remove the crime and death, no?

As well as our free will.

Cyracuz wrote:

I find the inconcistency of this thought annoying.

First someone says that god created everything.
Then they proceed to ask where evil comes from.

Why is the concept of free will so difficult to grasp? God gave intelligent creatures free will. One of them used his free will to rebel against God's authority. Rebellion produced sin; and sin, death.

Frank Apisa wrote:

neologist wrote:

. . . how would Adam and Eve and their descendants have known it was wrong to steal and murder, etc?

How about having your god simply explain that all to them????

Does that seem a stretch to you?

Or are you simply searching for some way to make this sting operation seem reasonable, kind, and loving?

What if he just gave them conscience and let it go at that? No tree. No choice. No free will.

You can dance around it all you want, Frank. If God have given Adam and Eve perfect conscience and no choice, it could only have been at the expense of free will. He gave them conscience. The tree represented their choice of whether to live by it or decide for themselves what was right and what was wrong.

Free will, Frank. Perhaps God's greatest gift - and one admittedly fraught with the risk that some might use it wrongly.

Frank Apisa wrote:

neologist wrote:

. . . how would Adam and Eve and their descendants have known it was wrong to steal and murder, etc?

How about having your god simply explain that all to them????

Does that seem a stretch to you?

Or are you simply searching for some way to make this sting operation seem reasonable, kind, and loving?

What if he just gave them conscience and let it go at that? No tree. No choice. No free will.