No thanks, I don't want to be friends

I can get along with such rather odd-ball folks - so long as holding my tongue is not a pre-requisite of friendship. If that makes any sense.

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home

But on my own, even without that kind of design class impetus, I tried out sitting in different places over a whole quarter. Man, oh, man, you could feel fur move back and forth. People pick a seat the first day and are keen on it forever more, or for twelve weeks more.

...
I think you can only do what you're doing....only mebbe really try to be not sitting with her? Try to be in a group, where you have to divide your attention and she cannot expect the confidante stuff.

That is, ongoingly polite, restrained, not doing your bit in the little dance of emerging friendship, (though perhaps she will not notice she is unpartnered)

Thing is, you may be doomed to ongoing overtures while the class lasts, and even some harrumphs as you gently cool it. (Yes, I know, you never "warmed" it....we speak of subjectivity here...)


The getting the instructor to drive her thing suggests she will have no awareness of boundaries at all, so I am not sure that your signals will be met with matching withdrawal....

...

is there any chance at all that you'll be able to arrive at class after B, and pick a seat at a different table, and then speak loudly and rapturously about the opportunity to work with different people through this program if she sidles up to you during a break? encourage her to bond deeply with her new group?

...

Yes, I was thinking too, that arriving a bit later and taking a different
seat in class would be doable. At lunch you could run some errands -
thus avoiding her alltogether. Plus you could ask someone else in your
group to look out for her at lunch while you're gone and hope she'll
make a new friend :naughty:

...

ooof, is right. I can think of what I might do and then I can think of what my mother (the paragon of thinking of others) might do.
...

My mother would arrive on time, take a seat without looking to see who she was sitting next to, pull a very large but interesting novel out of her bag and begin to read. At lunch she would sit by herself, pull the novel out of her bag, and read. If the other woman sat next to her she would nod politely when necessary, but keep on reading. If any requests for a ride came her way she would smile and simply say she was sorry but she didn't think it would work with her morning schedule (although she did hoodwink my father into driving a comparable B__ to work for over a year). If the reading trick didn't work she would tell herself that it's only six days out of her life and go with the flow.

Great minds...

I also thought of being late-ish, and either reading or better yet, reading and taking notes about it. When she would ask what it is, you'd say, I beg your pardon? Or, alternately, Advanced Quantum Physics. Just your luck, that would be her hobby.


This all reminds me of Dorothea. ....

... It's interesting, the thing about boundaries, social monitors. Some of that may be biochemical/brain related, and some cultural... Let's say I'm more sympathetic now than I was then - but I'd still not want to take on Jespah's woman on as a project..

... Also interesting to me.. this reminds me of some of the parent threads, re school yard choices and how to deal with them. Jespah's title for this thread may be the most straightforward way to handle it.

And even further it reminds me of something else I've talked about before.

After college, I've been back to school twice. .... I tried out sitting in different places over a whole quarter. Man, oh, man, you could feel fur move back and forth. People pick a seat the first day and are keen on it forever more, or for twelve weeks more. Well, not everybody, and not all the time, but there is a general trend toward that.

...

Invite her out to the beach for the Thursday Night Goat Sacrifice and Get Together - tell her to bring plenty of lubricating gel - and mebbe some aspirin and linament, just in case she's not used to the exertions.

... When Osso said this about what she'd do if she saw her old aquaintance...

Quote:

I'd be pleasant and avoid involvement. If she got pushy I might have to say something a little short. It's sad, since the kindest thing might be the hardest, which would be to talk to her about all this.

...it pretty much described what I was going to suggest.

It might be unavoidable to hurt feelings and be the bad guy, for a short while.

I just had a very similar problem.

Loud, Know Everything and Interrupt Everyone in Class Woman sat by me the first night, and she seemed a little loud, but pleasant. When class started, I was amazed. Other people would ask the instructor questions and she would alternately interrupt either or both during the exchange.

She answered rhetorical questions.

I was horrified because I began to cultivate a serious dislike for her. I thought I may absently reach over and jab her in the eye.

(I wanted to)

So, one night I came in late, as some have suggested, and sat by a girl who's main qualification was she wasn't Loud, Know Everything and Interrupt Everyone in Class Woman. We started studying together and hanging out--and I got a friend for a semester out of it.

But, Loud, Know Everything and Interrupt Everyone in Class Woman sort of apologized to me about talking so much which made me feel bad--and of course, I said--"What?? Oh No!! I'm glad you asked all those questions!!!" I couldn't stand to hurt her feelings.

It was a dismal performance by me.

I feel sorry for your person, jes. But, I can understand where you're coming from. I think trying to develop a friendship with someone else may be good--you can still talk to B, but eventually, you and New Friend are going to walk away. She will be hurt, but not destroyed.

...

You are human. You have needs, desires, and foilbles. It is a good mark of your humanity that you are sensitive enough not to wish to hurt the feelings of another person, the glass of your life is more than half-filled.


But you have to be yourself and make sure that you act in an honest way about your emotional needs, otherwise you will eventually get angry at having to have sacrificed your self for no tangible return. The return does not have to be material it can even be spiritual, but if you are doing something because you believe others think you should behave a certain way and not feel that way itself, spooky things can happen to you.

on the other hand

as Joan Osbourne sang....

If God had a name what would it be?
...

you might just be the best thing that ever happened to this woman, and she for you.

give her a chance.

and pet your dogs!

...

B. is probably so self-absorbed if you slight her she will move onto someone else. That's the pattern. Needy people who have no understanding of boundaries back-off quickly.

I work with a needy clingy woman (she doesn't smell) who only understands the language of a slight to get her to back off. At the moment she is wicked getting on my nerves so I'm extremely aloof to her. She backs off. When my mood is better I will chit-chat with her again, as she is just so damned grateful to have Some attention.

...

Some of these people may be quite smart. I'm sure Dorothea was. 'Tis me that is repeatedly confuseable. And I can tap into empathy for outcastness, and empathy for putting oneself out of the mix in a room. And see Kuvasz' point. I'm not a god person but I do think we judge on superficials way too much way too often. Still, a smelly boundary missing clinger is a project.

Interesting about the teacher. Wonder if the teacher will be quick to do that again...



Aside, I've been helped by people. When I was having my eye crisis two years ago, my surgeon picked me up from home and took me to his office.
Help is good.

... Next thing to think about - does lack of understanding of boundaries eventuate in ever increasing neediness?

Oy! sounds like the woman I work with. http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=71328&highlight=

...

Yup, dlowan. I agree 100% with that answer. We be animals. Doesn't matter how one gets to be the 'weak, outcasted' part of the herd: reaction and situation is the what it is.

...
Jespah, I feel your pain. Yes, I have encountered people like B_.
To be honest, at the time(s) it has happened, I had not the sensitivity to think twice about their feelings much. I can get along with such rather odd-ball folks - so long as holding my tongue is not a pre-requisite of friendship. If that makes any sense.

Truth is, these folks aren't thinking of YOUR feelings. They are 'out to lunch' as far as social concerns go - smelling, not observing boundaries, not considering how the teacher may not actually want to drive her but is doing it out of etiquette/discomfort/karma points/whatever.

So it is okay to say "Stop" or to be blatantly 'rude'. Don't worry. She most likely won't even register it. Kindness can be rather ugly to look upon sometimes, and you have no obligation to be her friend.

Take that as you will, but it is true. I don't feel sorry for them. Don't feel sorry! Seriously, why...no one wants pity-friendship anyhow.

So I guess I don't see anything wrong with simply saying "Listen, I would like some space. You seem like a nice person, but I'm not interested in sitting next to you every single day. Thanks for understanding." And go about your business. Be strong in enforcing your space and forget about it.

Am I a byiotch? Maybe. But it works.

Good luck! Sucks no matter how you cut it.

...

Jespah, I feel for you... haven't we all been there, done that at some point? Unfortunately, I think your best bet is to cool right down, grunt, be noncommital, pointedly say "I have things to do", "I'm not in the mood for a chat", don't make apologies, and bugger off as fast as you can... I'm positive she will get the point really fast.

You sometimes have to be cruel to be kind.

Your post made me laugh, though, because it brought back memories of similar events... but no more... now, I am an expert at avoid eye contact.

Remember, you don't owe her anything.

Jespah I don't mean to laugh, but "bah ha ha ha". I couldn't hold it in - doesn't this just seem like elementary school all over again. Don't want to get the smelly girl near you or be nice to her because she will cling to you - making up excuses to get away from her, etc.

The only helpful thing I could suggest is to try to come in late (after she does) so you can sit strategically between two other people. If she does say something, maybe say you want the opportunity to meet other people in class too. Or come in earlier than her and don't sit down until there is a spot between two cleaner people.

...

How's it going, Jes?

kuvasz wrote:

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home

HA!

On reading Jespah's story (one of the greats BTW) I kept thinking of this cartoon I saw years ago, and the lines from the song above just sealed it.

In the cartoon, this lady is riding on a totally empty bus. She the only passenger.
A person that looks kinda like this gets on board....



In her thought bubbles for the next 5 or 6 panels she's thinking "Please God, don't let him sit next to me" as he gets closer and closer.

He sits by her, leans in and says...."God told me to sit next to you...."




Jespaph honey, I feel for you...I gotta really lulu at work here...she smells nice, but it hard to be in the same room with her.....

Well, as long as we're sharing stories….

I had the strangest person come over to the house last night.

...
What to do? I guess, perhaps... it was an hour of inconvenience in your life.. a tall tale to tell even, later... whereas, who knows what it might have meant for her, even if just for the time it lasted. Moments of a place to sit down, near people, can come expensive, in some mental spaces.

Trouble only comes, if someone like that then starts coming back... like, oh I can come here. To have that on your hands....

(reading upwards)

Chai's story.. poor girl.

I mean - yeah, totally unsettling and just kinda, nonplussing, someone walking in like that and just plopping down. What do you do? What can you do?

But damn, she musta been in some space.

Just wandering, perhaps? Desperate for company (any company)?

ossobuco wrote:

But on my own, even without that kind of design class impetus, I tried out sitting in different places over a whole quarter. Man, oh, man, you could feel fur move back and forth. People pick a seat the first day and are keen on it forever more, or for twelve weeks more.

Yeah, isnt that the oddest!? Funny how that goes. "Fur moving back and forth" indeed, no idea what that means but it catches the vibe pretty well.


(I'm mostly just bookmarking)