Why the Left Is Furious at Lieberman; Iraq is only a part

Irregardless?

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If the GOP keeps its hold,will you accept that?

Or,will you join those,like Cynthia Mckinney,that immediately cry "foul" when they get beat?

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mysteryman wrote:

Would the same people asking Lieberman not to run as an independent have the same reaction if Lieberman was a republican?
Would they be worried that he would be splitting the repub vote and hurting the party?

I dont think so.
They would be hoping that he would run,so that it would split the party.

I do find it interesting that they are so worried about what would happen.
After all,if they are really so sure that he will lose,then why are they begging him not to run?
What are they afraid of?

Another question,why should Joe really care about supporting his party?
They obviously didnt care about supporting him.

The dems threw Joe overboard,so now they are gonna have to pay the price.

I will bet everything I have that he will win the general vote by a landslide,and then the dems will have to contend with the fact that he might not support the dem policies as much as they like or want him to.

I will bet quite the opposite, as the Democratic leadership in Washington is going to demand that he step down. And as time marches on, Joe will only become less popular. Look what happened already in a span of a few months in Connecticut between Lieberman and Lamont. The trend isn't about to stop anytime soon.

The mantra that the Democratic party will suffer because of this is completely false, and only being parroted by the mainstream corporate media who are scared of Republicans losing power. Why else would Karl Rove offer Joe his help?

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Quote:

The mantra that the Democratic party will suffer because of this is completely false, and only being parroted by the mainstream corporate media who are scared of Republicans losing power. Why else would Karl Rove offer Joe his help?

If the repubs maintain the Senate,and if Lieberman truly does vote as an independent,that will be one more lost vote for the dems.
That will make it that much harder for them to do anything.

You dont think that will hurt them?

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mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
The mantra that the Democratic party will suffer because of this is completely false, and only being parroted by the mainstream corporate media who are scared of Republicans losing power. Why else would Karl Rove offer Joe his help?

If the repubs maintain the Senate,and if Lieberman truly does vote as an independent,that will be one more lost vote for the dems.
That will make it that much harder for them to do anything.

You dont think that will hurt them?

What makes you think Lieberman is the sole pivotal factor come November? I think it's a little more complicated than that.

Just curious...

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Dookiestix wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
The mantra that the Democratic party will suffer because of this is completely false, and only being parroted by the mainstream corporate media who are scared of Republicans losing power. Why else would Karl Rove offer Joe his help?

If the repubs maintain the Senate,and if Lieberman truly does vote as an independent,that will be one more lost vote for the dems.
That will make it that much harder for them to do anything.

You dont think that will hurt them?

What makes you think Lieberman is the sole pivotal factor come November? I think it's a little more complicated than that.

Just curious...

I dont think he is,he is just part of the equation.

I do however,think that he will be a bigger part then you think he will be.
It is a little more complicated,I agree.

If he takes away enough of the dem and independent vote,then maybe the repub candidate will win (I admit that this is unlikely).
That could also tip the scales a bit,especially if the dems dont take control of the Senate.
In that event,the dems will be even more of a "non-factor" then they are now,and that could hurt their chances in 08.

I do think a Lieberman victory or even a win by the repub due to Lieberman splitting the dem and independent vote could have a major impact down the road.

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Mysteryman
Mysteryman, I continue to be surprised as how willing you are to show your ignorance in public about how politics works.

BBB

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Re: Mysteryman

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

Mysteryman, I continue to be surprised as how willing you are to show your ignorance in public about how politics works.

BBB

But I am not amazed by your comments.
You,as usual,attack the messenger instead of commenting on the message.
If I'm wrong,show me why.

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mysteryman wrote:

Dookiestix wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
The mantra that the Democratic party will suffer because of this is completely false, and only being parroted by the mainstream corporate media who are scared of Republicans losing power. Why else would Karl Rove offer Joe his help?

If the repubs maintain the Senate,and if Lieberman truly does vote as an independent,that will be one more lost vote for the dems.
That will make it that much harder for them to do anything.

You dont think that will hurt them?

What makes you think Lieberman is the sole pivotal factor come November? I think it's a little more complicated than that.

Just curious...

I dont think he is,he is just part of the equation.

I do however,think that he will be a bigger part then you think he will be.
It is a little more complicated,I agree.

If he takes away enough of the dem and independent vote,then maybe the repub candidate will win (I admit that this is unlikely).
That could also tip the scales a bit,especially if the dems dont take control of the Senate.
In that event,the dems will be even more of a "non-factor" then they are now,and that could hurt their chances in 08.

I do think a Lieberman victory or even a win by the repub due to Lieberman splitting the dem and independent vote could have a major impact down the road.

First off, the Republican challenger in Connecticut is extremely weak (the name escapse me at the moment), and apparently the GOP will be looking for a better contender. Secondly, Joe Lieberman will be villified by the left and the Democratic leadership if he continues down this ridiculous path, because it is purely self-serving and completely fails to address the real concerns of Connecticut voters who chose not to have him run this November. Thirdly, Republicans will try and brand Lamont as an extremist radical, regardless of the fact that as a Greenwich selectman Lamont voted with Republicans 80 percent of the time. Therefore, their labels will fail because America is seeing the GOP as being primarily responsible for sending many of their sons and daughters into a worthless war.

Further, as Joe continues to insist on running as an independent, he will undoubtedly be offered tons of support from the GOP and the right, making him look like a bigger hypocrit then he already is. Karl Rove has now offered to help him. Karl Rove helping a Democrat?

Fortunately, we now have the Netroots to point out this unbelievable political tripe if Joe continues down this path. I hope he doesn't. Otherwise, he will be so marginalized and politically damaged that he may never have a career in Washington ever again.

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Re: Mysteryman

mysteryman wrote:

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Mysteryman, I continue to be surprised as how willing you are to show your ignorance in public about how politics works.

BBB

But I am not amazed by your comments.
You,as usual,attack the messenger instead of commenting on the message.
If I'm wrong, show me why.

I just did.

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Re: BBB

Thomas wrote:

Are you sure? I would have thought New Mexico is a solidly enough blue state that a few Green votes make no difference.

you're kidding?

Gore won New Mexico by a 0.06% margin.

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mysteryman wrote:

[If the repubs maintain the Senate,and if Lieberman truly does vote as an independent,that will be one more lost vote for the dems.
That will make it that much harder for them to do anything.

You dont think that will hurt them?

Believe it or not, a Lieberman victory will not hurt the Democrats numbers wise.

Lieberman has made it clear that he will caucus with the Democrats if he wins. His voting record on most things is pretty liberal, except Iraq.

Want to know why political parties put up with mavericks-with people who vote with the "other guys" about as often as they vote with their own party?

Because the only vote a party really insists on is procedural. The majority party has the Speaker of the House or the Senate Majority Leader, and even more important, every single committee and every single committe chairman is from the majority party.

If Lieberman wins and caucuses with the Democrats, as he says he will-don't forget he is selling himself as "an independent Democrat"-then he will vote for Democratic majorities on all committees and and Democratic committee chairmen. Whether these votes will do any good will depend upon whether or not their are enough Democrats, plus Lieberman, to obtain a majority in the Senate.

Either party will put up with just about anything except too many indictments and not voting for committee majorities.

If Lieberman wins, when he returns to Washington it will be kissy kissy makeup time for him and the Democratic Party.

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"F 9/11" couldn't get anybody elected or not elected since the choice was a piece of sh*t or a piece of cr*p, both shouldering equal responsibility according to their platforms for the state of affairs in the Middle East. Kerry's current rhetoric is just as false as it was but no worse than Bushy Tail, who enabler wife, his real higher power, will not reveal what he does behind closed doors other than choke on pretzels.

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Re: BBB

nimh wrote:

Thomas wrote:
Are you sure? I would have thought New Mexico is a solidly enough blue state that a few Green votes make no difference.

you're kidding?

Gore won New Mexico by a 0.06% margin.

I was thinking about the Senate polls underlying the New York Times' election map.

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Mr.Thomas

The New York Times Map shows that Bingaman(D)'s seat is safe but that the House Seat in Albequerque is a toss-up!

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I am sure that Keltic Wizard does not know the numbers:

LIEBERMAN'S LOSS:
JOE WILL RISE AGAIN

New York Post-Dick Morris

August 9, 2006 -- REPORTS of Joe Lieberman's political death are (as Mark Twain once said of rumors of his own demise) "premature and grossly exaggerated." Lieberman has lost a battle, but he can still win the war running as an independent.
While Ned Lamont will clearly have a bounce after yesterday's primary victory, the Rasmussen Poll of July 20 showed Lieberman and Lamont tied at 40 percent each in the general election (with scandal-plagued GOP nominee Alan Schlesinger at 13 percent).

Those who would consign Lieberman to the dustbin of history need to realize that the Democratic primary in Connecticut is an affair that could be conducted in a good sized phone booth. About 140,000 people voted for Lamont. But the state saw 1,575,000 votes cast in the general election of 2004. Assume a lower turnout in 2006 (an off year), say 1 million votes, that still leaves 860,000 that can vote for Lieberman.

The Connecticut incumbent can, of course, count on the roughly 130,000 who backed him yesterday (aside from a few party regulars who might find it necessary to fall into line and endorse the nominee).

Then, with the Republican plagued by reports of huge gambling debts, Lieberman will strongly attract independent and GOP voters, plus moderate Democrats who weren't energized enough by the Lamont challenge to vote in the primaries.

In the general election, Lieberman can paint Lamont (a former client of mine) as the rich, light-weight dilettante he is (heir to the fortune of J.P. Morgan's partner) and can focus on the broad range of his legislative agenda. After all, Lieberman has taken the lead on issues ranging from campaign-finance reform to tobacco regulation to corporate-governance reform to tough action against terrorism to the battle against global warming. He'll look better and better, while Lamont will look like a one-issue challenger who is out of his league.

Freed of the confines of the Democratic primary, Lieberman can now appeal to independents, Republicans and mainstream Democrats who were not sufficiently motivated to participate in the primary, he can win.

In the meantime, Lieberman's primary defeat sends a message to all presidential contenders, particularly Sen. Hillary Clinton, that they have to move to the left on the war or be buried by the party's increasingly radical and leftist base. Al Gore is emerging as the one for her to worry about in 2008. Anti-war from the start, riding the global warming issue and a proven popular-vote winner, Gore will be increasingly attractive to the same left-wing voters who nominated Lamont in Connecticut. Hillary's convoluted flip-flops on the war won't play well in the primaries.

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BernardR wrote:

Mr.Thomas

The New York Times Map shows that Bingaman(D)'s seat is safe but that the House Seat in Albequerque is a toss-up!

Fair enough; I stand half-corrected then.

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Thomas wrote:

BernardR wrote:
Mr.Thomas

The New York Times Map shows that Bingaman(D)'s seat is safe but that the House Seat in Albequerque is a toss-up!

Fair enough; I stand half-corrected then.

The Congressional Quarterly 2006 Election Forecast Map also has the Senate race as merely "Democrat Favored" rather than "Democrat Safe".

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BernardR wrote:

Answer to Question # 1---43% of which no more than 20% voted against Senator Lieberman

Answer to Question # 2---Could not have been more than 15% since only 15% are registered Democrats

Answer to Question # 3- Senator Lieberman says he will run as an Independent

Answer to Question # 4 --YES, BY A LANDSLIDE!!!!

I hope Question #4 turns out to happen as predicted. However, do not underestimate the Democratic dirt machine digging up anything and everything on Lieberman, and using any imaginable tactic that they can conceive against Lieberman. Also watch the strong arm tactics behind the scenes by his former buddies to try to convince him his run is wrong, pointless, and futile. They will try anything and everything to make his life miserable and to defeat him.

One thing they will need to be careful of however is not to take their program too far against Lieberman, because many, many people know Lieberman, the type of man he is, and the family he has, so if the Democrats get too dirty, it could backfire against them.

If this works out as it looks like it could, Ned has done everybody a favor by bringing out the true nature of the Democratic Party, and how truly heartless, cold, and vacuous it is. The party has no positive ideas whatsoever, and now the best they can offer is to throw one of their own under the bus. Lieberman is not a fringe Democrat, people. At least he wasn't. Here is a man their party held out as presidential material just a few short years ago. An amazingly stupid move by the young, kooky, clueless element of the party.

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Why the Left Is Furious at Lieberman; Iraq is only a part

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