ebrown_p wrote:Heph,
In my experience, religion has a very powerful ability to justify evil... that is to convince someone who sincerely wants to do good that they should do something that (if they weren't affected by a religious doctrine) they should know is evil.
am not saying that this is always the case, but there are far too many examples from burning witches, to accepting pograms against the Jews. These things are often done with a religious justification that is accepted by otherwise good people.
I also find the doctrine of judgement to be quite troubling-- primarily because to give it any meaning, people are already doing the judging...
"Religion" only has the power over someone that that person is willing to give it. Same with science or anything else for that matter. I have heard the term "brainwashed" several times since I've joined this forum and you know what? I won't disagree at all that there are "religions" and belief systems out there that use that tactic to "control" their group of "believers". To manipulate them for the ultimate "purpose" that specific "religion" or belief system was designed for... whatever that may be.
I believe the problem is not to far from what a lot of people say here. "Religious people" regardless of WHAT that religion or belief system is use it as a crutch. They use it as a tool to feel better about themselves without actually changing the things inside that are making them feel bad about themselves in the first place. Not all. But many do this. Which is really where the judgement aspect of this stems from IMO.
If someone is secure in who they are and what they stand for there is no need for condemnation of others. There is no need for harsh criticism and judgement. There is no need to "eliminate" those who don't agree with you because they don't pose a threat to you or what you believe. Because what you believe is not rooted in what others think or have told you.
Quote:- How many religious people do you know who are certain (and will tell you so plainly) that practicing homosexuals are condemned to hell, simply because they are homosexual?
- How many religious people believe that Jews will be condemned to Hell unless they convert to Christianity?
And these are not just beliefs they lead to how we treat people.
It seems obvious that if you believe someone is condemned to Hell you are going to treat them differently and again my experience tells me this is true.
I can not see how a doctrine that believes in a vengeful God in judgement can exist without encouraging judging your fellow humans leading to hatred.
I know a lot of "religious" people that condemn homosexuality, as well as smoking, drinking, swearing, and the likes. I will say plainly, for the first time ever I think since I started here that I very strongly disagree with the homosexual lifestyle based on what I believe about the bible. However, I am not going to run around banging them over the head with my bible and condemning them to hell. That's not my job. It's not even my business really what they do, or what they choose to believe is right for their life.
And I've got $20 here that says the majority of them disagree just as strongly with my lifestyle as I do with theirs. So... we're at a draw are we not? However, their sexual preference doesn't change how I feel about them as a person, or how I would treat them either. I make that choice though. I have this theory you see... We are all just people struggling... trying to make it through this life the best we can... so really? Who am I to judge them or condemn them? IF I REALLY believe in this "God" of the bible. This "God" of love, that it is said specifically that He IS love, then shouldn't I be willing to show that love to others?
I have a pretty big problem with "christianity" itself at this point in my life. Based on the actions and reactions of those "God fearing" people that are in my path right now. There's six of them total. One is a "God fearing" man I married, who hid very well his alcoholism until the day we were married, at which point things changed dramatically and I became his verbal punching bag to take his frustrations out on. That doesn't seem like a very "God fearing" action to me. So I get beyond that, move, and start a job at a "Christian" agency working with troubled teens.
Now... there are five "God fearing" women working diligently to get me fired. Lying, manipulating, setting me up to fall, almost on a daily basis. Why? Because they don't like me. Because I'm a strait shooter and I'm going to tell them if I don't think what they are doing is right. I'm not rude or nasty. I just call it how I see it. I've got nothing to hide, and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it and apologize. Yet, from the current things going on in my life it appears to me that all "christianity" is breeding now a days is a sense of self-righteousness. Though that is certainly not limited to "christianity" by any means.
So now I am faced with a moral dilemma of my own. Will I stand up for what I believe and not return the condemnation, judgement, and criticism that is being given to me? Or will I write christianity off as a whole and tell all "christians" they ought to stick their beliefs where the sun don't shine? Let me tell you, the latter is the most tempting at this point. However, I believe in the life I lived previously to all this garbage happening. I believe in the power of love and honestly. I believe that doing the right thing is still right no matter what the wrong is that is being done against you. I believe that I don't want to allow such things to change who I am as a person and how I treat others.
So really, IMO, it's not so important WHAT you believe as HOW you propagate those beliefs. Anyone can say they are a "christian", but each person has to look at their OWN life and ask themselves, regardless of what their belief is, "Am I walking the walk I'm talking?" Because no matter what your belief is based out of if you aren't walking what you are talking then what you are talking loses all it's value...
